Ultramarine players and Gladiators

[Prot]

I'm just curious if anyone playing Ultramarines is going to pick one or more of these up?  I know supply is limited which will likely help sales until they're potentially gone, but in reality what do UM players think of this unit?

 

I know I'm flipping back and forth. Our Doctrine, Core rules, re-rolls, strats.... there's hardly any motivation to actually use one (competitively). On top of that so many units just annihilate tanks with ease. They don't get benefit of cover, they are never Obsec... there's a ton going against vehicles this edition, and I have to wonder if GW will change that at some point, but for now it's a tough sell.

 

I did a batrep on my blog that had me making one of the worst 'fun' lists I could think of. I decided on 2 Repulsor Executioners.

 

I faced Necrons with no 'tailored' lists. I couldn't believe how those new destroyers could so easily rip these apart. Since then I've seen too many high damage weapons change, or new units introduced. So it's kind of turned me off the premise.

 

What does the UM crowd think of them? And are you ordering any?

Edited November 26, 2020 by Prot

[NKirkham24]

I will probably pick up one for the collection, but in terms of game use, I'm not really sold on any of the variants.

 

I just think there are existing units which can match the gladiator's output for cheaper points, and with other bonuses too.

[psyduck]

Probably not, they're pricey and don't fit UM infantry lists, which I'm largely partial to.

 

Also, they don't really look that good to me aesthetically.

[emperorpants]

I'll be getting some, but I won't be using them for awhile because they are pretty terrible (in a competitive sense) for us. Maybe with a tech marine and Guilliman they could do some work, but that's getting pretty pricey points wise. You're better off going with redemptors than these tanks. However, nothing stays good or bad forever. They will eventually probably become viable. In the meantime they can be fun in non competitive games, and I personally think they look rad.

[Dark Bjoern]

I plan to pick up two. Don´t know how they will perform but i like the look

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Too many points tied up in one unit plus loss of the keyword Fly. The only I like is anti infantry which don’t need.

[Captain Idaho]

I made a video about my views

.

 

Suffice to say, I think their firepower is astonishing but their cost is equally large. For the most part it's not really worth the points but I do detail some circumstances where there are some uses.

 

In our predominantly infantry heavy armies it's no use. It'll die far too easily. If we use a Gladiator alongside perhaps a bunch of older class of vehicles which are mostly cheaper it could be a great distraction or indeed survive because Dreadnoughts etc are closing in on them.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I made a video about my views

.

 

Suffice to say, I think their firepower is astonishing but their cost is equally large. For the most part it's not really worth the points but I do detail some circumstances where there are some uses.

 

In our predominantly infantry heavy armies it's no use. It'll die far too easily. If we use a Gladiator alongside perhaps a bunch of older class of vehicles which are mostly cheaper it could be a great distraction or indeed survive because Dreadnoughts etc are closing in on them.

A buddy of mine who played Pred/Rhino spam in older editions is going to run 3 Valiant, 3 Reaper, 2x5 Intercessors in Impulsors and rest of the points in Infiltrators with a couple of Phobos HQ's (one Libby and I think one Captain.....though maybe something other than the Cap because of the low amount of CORE in the list). He's banking on target saturation, Infiltrator pushback, and things like Rapid Redeployment to optimize positioning and spread out incoming shots. We'll see how well it works for him.

Edited November 27, 2020 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Captain Idaho]

Target saturation can definitely work. Hopefully he can get some results there.

[Ishagu]

I'm definitely going to pick one up. When the models were first revealed I was sure that I would be getting two, but with them being so costly in terms of points, and the armies being so small, I don't feel I'll be running more than one.

 

I love the look of the model however, and I'm really looking forward to running one.

 

I'm not too concerned with the idea of tying up too many points in one tank, especially as it isn't going to be a clear and obvious target in my lists. With a squad of Eradicators running around, a Repulsor in support etc, there's going to be enough high threat units.

 

I think our next supplement update could change the way we view these units. If our overpriced characters get a drop, and some of our strats are updated, then we'll have to review what's really viable and what isn't.

[mel_danes]

+1 for the collection.

I've not gamed since March, rural America Covid hotzone. So it's not going to get used anyway.

I only play casual, usually against one opponent, see above. So the narrative of a quick hover tank speaks to me, with an Impluser near by and some charging Redemptors the scene writes itself.

I'll need it for the collection alone.

[CCE1981]

Looking at two here magnetized up, as looking at the Predator through the editions it’s hone from one entry to two and back again, I’m wondering if in the we will be able to mix up its loadout. As for right now, I like the look of it. Plus, it’s about Impulsor + Gladiator is about the same cost of a Repulsor with more firepower a bigger threat radius, more targets, and more wounds. Overall though I’m a big Dreadhead so I haven’t figured Gladiators into my list yet.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I'm just curious if anyone playing Ultramarines is going to pick one or more of these up?  I know supply is limited which will likely help sales until they're potentially gone, but in reality what do UM players think of this unit?

 

Where did you hear that these are a limited supply item? Unless you're talking temporary Covid restrictions - I haven't heard ANYTHING to suggest that these kits aren't intended as being around for the long haul.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Best thing is to grab up everything you want on the first drop else it could be awhile.

[Captain Idaho]

I didn't get my Heavy Destroyers for almost 2 months, so I imagine supplies are limited for new products. Hopefully you guys can get one though.

 

I do like the Gladiator though. Looks like lovely.

 

I been thinking about which variants will end up seeing the most use and I actually think (brace yourselves) the Lancer is the most useful right now.

 

I know, I know, Internet wisdom despises it, but hear me out!

 

The Lancer has long ranged anti tank that is pretty good. It will hurt what it hits and put crucial wounds on things early on particularly Knights and enemy artillery. It can do so all game from a safe distance whilst your other armoured vehicles move forward and take objectives and attract enemy attention.

 

The Lancer won't be decisive but it will still kill most armoured vehicles in a couple turns anyway.

 

Crucially, it costs 200pts and isn't outperformed by Attack Bikes and Eradicators like the Valiant (for cost, not ability) and the whole army being anti-infantry anyway like the Reaper.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Ishagu]

The Lancer is useless in my eyes. Volume of fire is far too low. Once units with invuls become the target it's very likely the damage will be reduced to zero.

 

I'm going down the route of the Valliant because my particular lists typically have a lot of anti-infantry firepower anyways, although the Reaper is a very competitive option. It's probably the best one in fact.

[Kallas]

I'd agree that the Valiant is superior. It's got the higher volume, and Ultramarines negate one of the bigger weaknesses which is being tagged in melee.

 

With 8 powerful shots it can contribute to killing elites once enemy vehicles are vapourised.

[psyduck]

I had a brief thought of advancing multi-melta contemptors with gladiator reapers to zoom up afterwards and punish infantry. Sounds glorious, but no idea if it'll actually work. 

 

Probably not, especially against necrons.

[Prot]

 

I'm just curious if anyone playing Ultramarines is going to pick one or more of these up?  I know supply is limited which will likely help sales until they're potentially gone, but in reality what do UM players think of this unit?

 

Where did you hear that these are a limited supply item? Unless you're talking temporary Covid restrictions - I haven't heard ANYTHING to suggest that these kits aren't intended as being around for the long haul.

 

 

Supply is limited, is different from limited edition. 

 

Covid, closed warehouses, shipping, etc... each (non-GW) retail store is 'limited' to 1-2 boxes of each item. 

 

It's like BBF says... although not 'limited edition' it will probably quite a while before these aren't in a limited supply scenario. 

 

+++++++++++++++++

 

Right now, as the game stands, I don't like the low volume, high powered tank, or weapons in general. Too many things have defenses of high strength (IE: Only wound on 4+) or high AP (invulns). This is why in most cases I go after vehicles with less weapons, and keep my lower volume high strength stuff hidden in squads (IE Multi melta's)

 

BUT I say this anticipating a shift coming in the meta where tanks gotta have better staying power. I mean this current meta is brutal against most high cost vehicles. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

I don't dispute the Valiant is superior at what it does, but is it not a little obsolete with all the other melta units for cheaper

 

I'm just spitballing. My video largely agrees with the sentiment here.

 

I just have a new theory of using the Lancer as a long ranged support unit in the right list.

[Prot]

I don't dispute the Valiant is superior at what it does, but is it not a little obsolete with all the other melta units for cheaper

 

I'm just spitballing. My video largely agrees with the sentiment here.

 

I just have a new theory of using the Lancer as a long ranged support unit in the right list.

 

 

Spitballing is really all we can do for now. As most know I'm not a theory hammer guy in general; I put everything on the table before making a real 'judgement' so I appreciate any back-and-forth ideas here. 

 

Case and point I played the new Fortification the Hammerfall and it's horrid, so are the new Artillery pieces but we know GW will want to move this product at some point so I don't judge it too harshly. We are all (largely) in this forum, Ultramarines' fans and I'm proud to say that. :tu:

 

But that said this unit is actually the reason I bought the new Primaris Techmarine in hopes of getting some mileage out of these non core units. 

 

Two almost 'wish listy' type things I will say in my experience with other armies and our newer units: 1. Really the Techmarine is an Elite choice and is excrutiatingly painful to take in most lists because our HQ characters carry so much weight. 2. If any of the Gladiator variants had any indirect option, I'd try to buy 2-3 for certain.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I see devcents as being more resilient and able to lay down more fire power so it’s hard for me to justify taking one of these tanks in my list. Now if I wanted to run a mechanized army then sure but I see us playing to our strengths as an infantry heavy army.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Might grab one later, not now though.

 

Not really feeling it rules wise. For at least the core of the army, focusing on infantry to start with.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I was messing around with BattleScribe to develop an armor heavy armor and wow tanks eat up a lot of points. Sure hope Chronus crosses the Rubicon !

[Captain Idaho]

None of the new vehicles actually have the Primaris key word, including the Redemptor, so there's no reason to stop Chronus getting the chance to drive any vehicle really.

 

I think the main problem with the Gladiator is expense for an edition which kills vehicles quick. If more Codex books come out with a focus on lots of infantry, however, this could change. Folk will take less melta and thus large numbers of vehicles in a list will stand a chance.