Who is on top? High Lords or Roboute?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

If the high lords happened to do something that robute was absolutely opposed to, who overrides who then?

 

Clearly if worst came to worst it it would be a second civil war for the imperium. But peaceful confrontation between the primarchs and the high lords, whose authority would likely win out?

[tangoalphatwo]

Same thing that happens whenever you have two opposing ruling elites. The plebs would take sides. Yeah. Civil War

[WARMASTER_]

You should definitely read the CW book Regents shadow! It’s got a great insider insight into the power structure on terra

 

It’s roboute guilliman though he’s the lord Commander of the imperium everyone but the custodes (and kind of the other space marine chapters) are under his command

Edited November 28, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[Azekai]

Depends on where/when/how. The galaxy is really big and Guilleman’s influence does not extend everywhere across the Imperium of Man. The high lords as a political body have spent the past tens of millennia consolidating their power and cultivating their influence.

[WARMASTER_]

guilliman also installed 6 of his own high lords and outright striped 6 of their power and positions, he has influence anywhere there’s the imperium

[MegaVolt87]

From my understanding, many elites of the Imperium believe the primarchs should be co-signed to the dustbin of history. I think the factionalism of the elites are already killing each other in the shadows, would be bad in the Terran court these days. Edited November 26, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Pretty sure the Lord Commander takes precedence. Maximus Thane did in TBA, he made all the High Lords come to the Phalanx, marched them all around it for fun, then told them what to do next, before mistakenly leaving Vangorich in charge.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

From my understanding, many elites of the Imperium believe the primarchs should be co-signed to the dustbin of history. I think the factionalism of the elites are already killing each other in the shadows, would be bad in the Terran court these days.

The Primarch.

[Noserenda]

Id also not forget the personal power involved, the Primarch has huge advantages in charisma, experience and political savvy over the High lords, who are themselves far from a united front at any time. I suspect any rebellion would run face first into some straightforward contingency or counter plan either from Guiliman or those he inspires fanatical loyalty in.

[Rik Lightstar]

Any individual High Lord would get a big blue pimp slap into oblivion.

 

Rik

[MegaVolt87]

 

From my understanding, many elites of the Imperium believe the primarchs should be co-signed to the dustbin of history. I think the factionalism of the elites are already killing each other in the shadows, would be bad in the Terran court these days.

 

The Primarch.

No, all of the primarchs regardless of loyalty or current status. It's very human to hate and be prejudiced against a whole seperate group of individuals even if only half of them or less are bad. Base human nature is unchanged even in m42.

 

EDIT- Typos + formatting.

Edited November 27, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hard to co-sign a dead Primarch.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Originally when Malcador and the Emperor were alive and active, I believe the High Lords' authority superseded the Primarchs. However, in M41, it's been shown multiple times that Guilliman holds far more authority than the High Lords after his resurrection, though whether this is due to him once again taking up the mantle of Lord Commander of the Imperium or due to the near mythic status Primarchs now have in M41 is unknown.

[jaxom]

Legally, within the context of the Imperium of Man? In matters of war the Lord Commander Militant has extremely broad powers while in other matters the LCM is bound by the will of the Senate. 

 

Practically, within the context of the Imperium of Man? Whoever has the power to enforce their will upon others. Guilliman commands a great deal of personal, military, and political power. A large enough bloc could counter him, but it would have to be a very serious one. Regent's Shadow (as recommended by BladeOfVengeance) does a good job of detailing the sort of powers that would have to assemble to form one possible bloc. Even then, the bloc is localized to Terra and doesn't have to contend with the personal aspects of Guilliman's power (and their impact on his political power).

[WARMASTER_]

Jaxoms answer has the right of it really even though it’s Guilliman above the high lords in the myriad political structures of the imperium it’s who’s got the power to enforce it at present

 

My personal favourites are usually the inquisition vs Astartes, the astartes are technically outside of the imperiums laws and could usually physically destroy an inquistor in seconds but it’s about what the inquisition represents that gives them sway, ADB & CW often get the power struggle great as does Andy smilie

Edited November 28, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[Dr. Clock]

This is pretty much the origin of the phrase 'Crossing the Rubicon'...

 

Practically, it would entirely depend on how a) the rest of the Marines take it, and b) how the Custodes take it, pretty much... mostly because for all intents and purposes my guess is that a given colony or world is likely to throw their lot in with the Sons of the Emperor that are nearby than 'they on Terra', at least in my head canon.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Claws and Effect]

No matter how much power the High Lords wield none of them will ever be the literal son of the Emperor, and thus a demigod in the eyes of anyone who believes in his divinity. 

 

I'm pretty sure the will of the common people will side with the demigod standing in front of them over the bureaucrats hiding on Terra. 

[Azekai]

No matter how much power the High Lords wield none of them will ever be the literal son of the Emperor, and thus a demigod in the eyes of anyone who believes in his divinity.

 

I'm pretty sure the will of the common people will side with the demigod standing in front of them over the bureaucrats hiding on Terra.

This seems bizarre to me. Most of the forces of the armies in the Imperium don’t even know why they are fighting. That’s not their concern. In the Badab War, most of the mortal ground forces of the traitors were told they were fighting heretical interlopers. If schismatics within the highest levels of Terran government wanted to hinder Guilleman’s forces, it is not that difficult to quietly sow dissension. Ignorance is rampant in the 41st millennium, and blind faith is a double edged sword.

 

Given the Byzantine structure of the imperium, who fights for who isn’t a top-down, ‘you get to pick a side’ affair.

[Ishagu]

Some of the High Lords did try to wrestle some power away from Guilliman, but it transpired that he had effectively set them up to try in order to reveal up-front who was disloyal, and who wasn't. It ended in swift assassinations for those that didn't want to play by his rules.

 

It was a master stroke of political maneuvering, because Guilliman wasn't the one to make the first move. He offered some a comfortable retirement, and it was only when they tried to subvert his will that it ultimately ended in their demise.

 

It must be said, however, that power in the Imperium is a pretty fluid concept. There is direct power, of course, but it must travel through so much distance and bureaucracy that it's ultimately very diluted, when it comes to measuring it on a galactic scale.

[jaxom]

No matter how much power the High Lords wield none of them will ever be the literal son of the Emperor, and thus a demigod in the eyes of anyone who believes in his divinity. 

 

I'm pretty sure the will of the common people will side with the demigod standing in front of them over the bureaucrats hiding on Terra. 

That's an excellent explanation for the Horus Heresy as well.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

No matter how much power the High Lords wield none of them will ever be the literal son of the Emperor, and thus a demigod in the eyes of anyone who believes in his divinity. 

 

I'm pretty sure the will of the common people will side with the demigod standing in front of them over the bureaucrats hiding on Terra. 

literal son of the emperor doesn't mean much post-heresy...all the high lords really need to do is go on a hard propaganda campaign that robute is trying to undermine the emperor and take over the imperium for his own...

 

 

[Rik Lightstar]

 

No matter how much power the High Lords wield none of them will ever be the literal son of the Emperor, and thus a demigod in the eyes of anyone who believes in his divinity. 

 

I'm pretty sure the will of the common people will side with the demigod standing in front of them over the bureaucrats hiding on Terra. 

literal son of the emperor doesn't mean much post-heresy...all the high lords really need to do is go on a hard propaganda campaign that robute is trying to undermine the emperor and take over the imperium for his own...

 

 

 

 

Anyone who could be reached by propaganda from the High Lords in a meaningful sense has already been subjected to millennia of propaganda about The Emperor, His NINE Primarch Sons and the Space Marine Heroes who built and preserve the Imperium.

 

All records of the Heresy having been wiped, they can't at this point suggest that one of the Sons of The Emperor could be anything other than Divine, it would undermine thousands of years of carefully crafted lies.

 

Rik

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

guilliman also installed 6 of his own high lords and outright striped 6 of their power and positions, he has influence anywhere there’s the imperium

 

He installed 5 and stripped 4, for the record. One was a vacancy.

 

Also, the main thing to remember is that even though Guilliman is Lord Hight Muckety Muck, he was only on Terra for a very brief time (a few months, definitely less than a year). Then he turned around and embarked on the Indomitus Crusade. For over a century. Then he went to Ultramar. Granted, he may have made the occasional trip back to Terra, but it's not like he set up a Zoom call every time there was a disagreement.

 

But I expect the next installment of Watchers of the Throne to get more into that. While The Regent's Shadow covered the short time after he left and presumably led to a more stable council as the events of that book played out, there's still at least one High Lord on the Council who's been known to make shady deals that directly impacted the throneworld.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Lord Nord

[Lucerne]

 

 

No matter how much power the High Lords wield none of them will ever be the literal son of the Emperor, and thus a demigod in the eyes of anyone who believes in his divinity. 

 

I'm pretty sure the will of the common people will side with the demigod standing in front of them over the bureaucrats hiding on Terra. 

literal son of the emperor doesn't mean much post-heresy...all the high lords really need to do is go on a hard propaganda campaign that robute is trying to undermine the emperor and take over the imperium for his own...

 

 

 

 

Anyone who could be reached by propaganda from the High Lords in a meaningful sense has already been subjected to millennia of propaganda about The Emperor, His NINE Primarch Sons and the Space Marine Heroes who built and preserve the Imperium.

 

All records of the Heresy having been wiped, they can't at this point suggest that one of the Sons of The Emperor could be anything other than Divine, it would undermine thousands of years of carefully crafted lies.

 

Rik

 

Accuse him of being a fake. War of the False Primarch was a thing that happened.

[Ishagu]

The false Primarch wasn't one of the established loyalist sons.