Crimson Knights - an attempt to create a knightly Chapter

[Gamiel]

Crimson Knights

The Crimson Knights are a canon Chapter with little written about them that I’m using as base for an attempt to make a Space Marine Chapter notably knightly in feeling. I begun this project because even those there is much Space Marine armour that is inspired by knight armour do there not really exist any Chapter whose presentation really did say “knights” to my. For this I collected different concepts for how to make a Chapter knightly (can be seen here), but I feel a need to say that I made the collection not for the Crimson Knights, I’m just using them to see if some of the concepts I collected could work together and give a Chapter a knightly feeling.

 

I’m doing the presentation in points form since I feel that makes it easier to get an overview and comment on specific parts:

 

ORIGINS

- Founding M35

- Blood Angels gene-seed. Via anybody?

- Was Founded in order to defend a region of the Imperium against the predations of the Eldar.

 

HOMEWORLD

- The Crimson Knights’ homeworld is the distant world of Tembron on the galactic rim, a world once devastated by massive wars and now consisting of huge fortresses protecting the planet’s remaining population.

- Tembron surface is wind-scoured and polluted wastes, dominated by massive, looming keeps where the feudal lords of this planet control and protect the peasants of their households.

- Most of the land is desert or semi-desert, broken by tox-swamps and inland sludge-seas. Any arable land (by human standard) or clean(-ish) water springs have been taken by the population and are protected by large walls; those fortified life oasis are each ruled by a feudal lord.

- The natives have lots of blood rituals – mixing blood to create blood-brothers; cutting yourself and swearing a blood oath; cutting yourself and smearing blood on your equipment for luck; – similar to the Crimson Knights, it's unknown if the Chapter influenced the natives or the other way around.

- Most of the keeps are equipped with anti-air force guns, and one of the roles of the feudal lords are to keep the equipment ready and know how to use it for when xeno or renegade raiders attack.

- The normal population are trained in the use of crossbows, spears and short sidearms, the lords are given full metal armour and trained in sword, lance, warhammer, and lasguns.

- Technology is overall at a renaissance Europe level but lack black powder, and some more advanced technology.

- While outlaw gangs, and packs of inbreed mutants (similar to hullghast and ghilliam) exist, and the lords sometime make war against each other, are the main threat the planets fauna - worms, scorpions, spiders and such of unusual size; Tembronian trolls; flesh eater scarabs, especially during migration times; etcetera.

- The keeps are connected through ancient landships, controlled by the Martian priesthood, and (in the cases of keeps near each other) animal caravans.

- All keep towns have yearly games of sportsmanship and physical feats, for all ages, followed by feasts, as a way to train everybody for when needed but also as a first step in recruiting aspirants. Those young that do well in the games during certain years gathered to participate in greater games where they are tested even more and in other ways to weed out the best who then are taken to the even next step and so on.

- Tembron’s moon’s backside has the Chapter’s spaceport

- The rest of the planets in the system have outposts to help detect incoming enemies and defend from them.

 

BELIEFS

- The Crimson Knights revere their primarch, Sanguinius, and fight as their noble forebears.

- Honour and duty is everything. There are producers for those who have acted dishonorable to do their duty, or failed in their duty but kept their honour by doing so. Usually in the form of repention missions or quests, e.g. being sent to the Deathwatch.

- Sometime a knight receives a vision, when that happens he speaks to a Chaplain and Librarian for guidance and scrutiny. If it’s decided that it was a true visions is the knight declared a “questing knight” and go out in the galaxy to fulfill the vision. Sometime fully alone, but usually accompanied by his squire and some more chapter-retainers, or followed by a group of fellow knights who has been given the right to partake in the quest.

 

ORGANISATION

- Largely as the Blood Angels

- Few jump-packs

- see “questing knight” under Belief.

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

- The Chapter is known for their swiftly-moving assault forces and fierce assaults.

- Warmaking are affairs of duty and all the rules of dueling don’t apply to warmaking, duels between champions/heroes on the battlefield is the exception – if the enemy breaks the honours of a duel then it’s no longer a duel and the rules of war ones again apply.

 

COLOURS

- It’s heraldry is a sword flanked by blood drops

- Its livery primarily red with golden greaves.

- Librarians are codex blue but with golden greaves.

- Every full Astartes has a tilting shield that shows heraldry. You get the right to your own heraldry after deed making, until then does the shield show the company heraldry. Either make your own or pick one of the heraldries used by an earlier bearer of the gene-seed, or combine. It’s expected to incorporate at least some elements of the earlier bearer of the gene-seed’s heraldry in your own. Many young marines do foolish things to be able to have their own heraldry. It’s not allowed to use already existing heraldry as your own or part of your design unless you belong to the same linage.

- Less Baroque/Rococo/Renascence bling than the BA

 

CULTURE

- The Crimson Knights revere their primarch, Sanguinius, and fight as their noble forebears,

- Page and bowl haircuts mostly

- Have lots of blood rituals – cutting yourself and swearing a blood oath; cutting yourself and smearing blood on your equipment for luck; “baptising” new wargear by smearing/pouring blood on it; draining their fresh dead of blood, that is later ritually consumed; – similar to Tembron’s natives, it's unknown if the Chapter influenced the natives or the other way around.

- Names are Anglo-French and Germanic-Nordic mostly. No/few very Roman, Italian, Greek or angelic names.

- Surnames are given to each Marine based on manner, notable deeds and/or personal heraldry.

- Only send those knights who have dishonoured themselves to the Deathwatch, and see the service in the DW a redemption quest. Maybe Death Company markings on their DW painted armour?

- Linage based on how old your gene-seed implant is. The older the linage the more noble, but also more is asked of you. Some linages are not allowed to continue because of dishonourable acts.

- A gene-seed linage is given a linage-name, which is the first bearer of the gene-seed’s surname with an ‘de’, ‘von’, ‘as heck ’ added before it, and is placed after a marines surname, ex. Valdemar Longhilt de Thornberry

- See the point about tilting shields and heraldry under Colours above.

- Duels and challenges are affairs of honour and should be treated as such.

- Warmaking are affairs of duty and all the rules of dueling don’t apply to warmaking, duels between champions/heroes on the battlefield is the exception – if the enemy breaks the honours of a duel then it’s no longer a duel and the rules of war ones again apply.

- A word given is a word that’s kept, no matter to whom. Alliances of dire need with enemies of the Imperium are never broken unless the other part breaks it first.

- Lots of pseudo-French and other mainland European languages.

- Lots of ranks and titles based on courtly titles - ex. Grand Panetier, Doorward, Master Herald, etc.

- See “questing knight” under Belief.

Lingua

- Chapter Master = Lord Roi;

- Chapter-retainers = chapter-serfs that directly interact with the knights

- Battle-brother = sir knight, knight-brother, or just knight or brother when informal

- Squire = a knights personal chapter-serf/s

- The members of the 1:th Company are referred to as paladins

 

DISPOSITION

- Noble and honourable

- Very formal and etiquette following

- Natural air of aristocratic superiority?

 

GENE-SEED

- Stable. Shows no more tendencies to fall to the Red Thirst or Black Rage than the Blood Angels.

 

HISTORY

- Were Founded in M35, in order to defend a region of the Imperium against the predations of the Eldar.

- This has led them to fight a series of battles against Craftworld Kaelor and the Chapter's 3rd Company Captain is regarded as a hero for leading a successful raid against a Craftworld.

- This has earned the Captain and the Crimson Knights the enmity of the Eldar, and the Chapter is currently rebuilding their strength after suffering severe losses in battle.

- In one such incident, the Chapter's forces were saved due to the timely intervention of an Imperial Navy Battlefleet and the Crimson Knights now count the Navy as one of their closest allies.

- When the call for the defense of Baal against Hivefleet Leviathan came did they have long discussions about what to do, they had a duty to their homeworld and its people, and the sector they lay in, but they also had a duty to help defend Baal and the later was possibly of a greater need to the Imperium than the space they guarded. It was decided that they would leave the 1t0h Company and one representative of each of the other Companies with them on Tembron to defend it and it’s near space.

- Was down to 53 Marines as of the coming of Guliman to Baal. Were gifted 200 of the Unnumbered Sons to replenish their ranks.

 

RELATIONSHIPS

- Blood Angles and fellow successors: idealise the BA but have little contact with them because of geographic reasons. Fellow successors are treated as family and since they all share the Flaw somebody they can actually somewhat relax around and speak freely with regarding the Flaw. But those kin-chapters that have gone down darker paths, from the CK perspective (like the Flesh Tearers, and the Angels Penitent), are evaded if possible but when not are they interacted with by all the laws of etiquettes but not one bit more than honour and duty demands. And if they have to fight together is the CK’s doctrine that darker brethren should be given such duties that don’t bring them, the CK and Sanguinius’ any dishonour, even if it mean that the other Chapter get the most of the glory – sadly do the need for glory of some CK lead to that this doctrine is not always followed.

- Other Marine Chapters: Gets along well with fellow “good guy” Chapters (like the Ultramarines, Salamanders, Scythes of the Emperor)

- Deathwatch: because of their history of sending their own that have dishonoured themselves in the service of duty to the DW do the CK often react to DW as if they all were dishonoured on a quest for redemption.

- Imperial Guard/general human forces: [undecided]

- Adeptus Mechanicus: [undecided]

- Ecclesiarchy: [undecided]

- Inquisition: [undecided]

- Distrust the Navigator House Jeffhope and are constantly on the lookout for information that will prove their suspicions. As of yet has this lead to nothing that the House have not been able to blame on others or just corrupt individuals that have quickly been done away with. Some outside observers think the CK are just hunting shadows.

+++++

 

 

Do people think I succeded in creating a knightly feeling? If anyone has thoughts or suggestions they'd like to share, I'm all ears

Edited October 6, 2021 by Gamiel

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good ideas- I love the blood rituals the Chapter planet's inhabitants have, and Deathwatch members seeing their service as quests for redemption- but some refinement is necessary. For example:

Any arable land (by human standard) or clean(-ish) water springs have been taken by the population and are protected by large walls; those fortified life oasis are each ruled by a feudal lord.

Arable land of sufficiently large area to feed a meaningful number of people, will be impossible to build walls for, due to difficulty getting sufficient amount of construction materials- which can no longer be used for castle walls, due to the opportunity costs- the expenses of transporting the materials to where the walls are to be built, pay workers to erect the walls- workers who won't be farming food, mining ore for iron with which to make the knights' arms and armor, or serving as men-at-arms to help maintain order, another opportunity cost- as well as the fact walls will block sunlight and interfere with the crops' growth. It's possible to use vertical farms which are then protected behind walls, i.e., something like this:

But the technological level necessary to build a vertical farm, will likely force the Chapter planet out of feudalism.

While outlaw gangs, and packs of inbreed mutants (similar to hullghast and ghilliam) exist,

Do you mean Helghast? Who or what are the "ghilliam"?

Linage based on how old your gene-seed implant is. The older the linage the more noble, but also more is asked of you. Some linages are not allowed to continue because of dishonourable acts.

This seems pointless. When Ragnar Blackmane received his gene-seed, he was NOT told its previous recipient's name or accomplishments- the fact it was a piece of his god (the Primarch Leman Russ, worshiped as such on the Space Wolves Chapter planet) was all he needed to know. Who besides the Apothecaries would even have records of the previous gene-seed recipients? Who in the Chapter would waste time remembering each individual gene-seed and its recipient's deeds and misdeeds, instead of training in preparation for battles in which to earn glory for himself, maintenance on the arms and armor with which to fight battles?

In one such incident, the Chapter's forces were saved due to the timely intervention of an Imperial Navy Battlefleet and the Crimson Knights now count the Navy as one of their closest allies.

You should specify which Imperial Navy battlefleet the Chapter counts as an ally. The sheer size of the Navy will make it impossible to count the entire organization as an ally. Feuds between Astra Militarum commanders make their regiments wage war against each other with depressing regularity, as described in multiple Black Library novels, so no Chapter can count the entire Astra Militarum as an ally; I expect the same problem to apply to the Navy.

 

Nitpicks, with my emphasis:

Blood Angles geneseed.

I think you meant "Blood AngELs gene-seed"- note the dash between the words "gene" and "seed".

If it’s decided that it was a true visions is the knight declared a “questioning knight” and go out in the galaxy to fulfill the vision.

see “questioning knight” under Belief.

I think you meant "questing knight", NOT "questIONing knight".

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The fact the Chapter has few jump packs, makes me wonder if it uses jetbikes in their place, and Pegasus Knights (riding Pegasus pattern jetbikes) in place of Assault Marines and Inceptors.

[Gamiel]

Good ideas- I love the blood rituals the Chapter planet's inhabitants have, and Deathwatch members seeing their service as quests for redemption- but some refinement is necessary. For example:

Any arable land (by human standard) or clean(-ish) water springs have been taken by the population and are protected by large walls; those fortified life oasis are each ruled by a feudal lord.

Arable land of sufficiently large area to feed a meaningful number of people, will be impossible to build walls for, due to difficulty getting sufficient amount of construction materials- which can no longer be used for castle walls, due to the opportunity costs- the expenses of transporting the materials to where the walls are to be built, pay workers to erect the walls- workers who won't be farming food, mining ore for iron with which to make the knights' arms and armor, or serving as men-at-arms to help maintain order, another opportunity cost- as well as the fact walls will block sunlight and interfere with the crops' growth. It's possible to use vertical farms which are then protected behind walls, i.e., something like this:

But the technological level necessary to build a vertical farm, will likely force the Chapter planet out of feudalism.

You have to remember, the CK have been there for around 5 millennia and the natives longer, they have ample time to build those walls to protect their farmland/water, not just from beasts, mutants and outlaws but also from dust storms. There is also that most kinds of farming is a hurry up-and-wait affair, where you have periods of intense work while other periods you just need to keep an eye on it at most, leaving people with plenty a-time to do other things.

 

Regarding vertical farms: I think you are overestimating how advanced/hard vertical farming is, most likely some of the keeps have vertical farms along the windows toward the courtyard.

 

 

 

While outlaw gangs, and packs of inbreed mutants (similar to hullghast and ghilliam) exist,

Do you mean Helghast? Who or what are the "ghilliam"?

Hullghast - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum & Ghilliam - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

Have added teh links to the OP

 

 

Linage based on how old your gene-seed implant is. The older the linage the more noble, but also more is asked of you. Some linages are not allowed to continue because of dishonourable acts.

This seems pointless.

Yes, that in a way is the point. It's simlar to how the Scythes of the Emperor judges their members based on their origin world. 

 

Who besides the Apothecaries would even have records of the previous gene-seed recipients? Who in the Chapter would waste time remembering each individual gene-seed and its recipient's deeds and misdeeds, instead of training in preparation for battles in which to earn glory for himself, maintenance on the arms and armor with which to fight battles?

 

The Master Herald of course.

 

 

In one such incident, the Chapter's forces were saved due to the timely intervention of an Imperial Navy Battlefleet and the Crimson Knights now count the Navy as one of their closest allies.

You should specify which Imperial Navy battlefleet the Chapter counts as an ally. The sheer size of the Navy will make it impossible to count the entire organization as an ally. Feuds between Astra Militarum commanders make their regiments wage war against each other with depressing regularity, as described in multiple Black Library novels, so no Chapter can count the entire Astra Militarum as an ally; I expect the same problem to apply to the Navy.

 

True that, the thing is that lore is one of the canon things established about the Chapter but not specified which battlefleet, nor is it mentioned which part of the Galaxy their home world lay, beside it being in the Imperium's galactic rim (which is a huge, spread out area). Could they not at least have given us a Segmentum?

 

 

Nitpicks, with my emphasis:

Blood Angles geneseed.

I think you meant "Blood AngELs gene-seed"- note the dash between the words "gene" and "seed".

If it’s decided that it was a true visions is the knight declared a “questioning knight” and go out in the galaxy to fulfill the vision.

see “questioning knight” under Belief.

I think you meant "questing knight", NOT "questIONing knight".

Thanks, have fixed that.

 

 

 

 

The fact the Chapter has few jump packs, makes me wonder if it uses jetbikes in their place, and Pegasus Knights (riding Pegasus pattern jetbikes) in place of Assault Marines and Inceptors.

They would probably love to but I was thinking (which I have not added to the OP but should) that they are not the most technological advanced Chapter or well supplied, they are just not important enough and located a bit too far away.

 

One of the reasons why they have few jump packs is that they have lost them throughout they millennia and not gotten enough new ones.  Was actually thinking that their Sanguinary Guard don’t have the ornate winged jump packs that the standard do but only have standard jump packs, painted gold because they have [ lost / don’t get ] some of the things they need to create new ones / repair the old ones.   

[Bjorn Firewalker]

You have to remember, the CK have been there for around 5 millennia and the natives longer, they have ample time to build those walls to protect their farmland/water, not just from beasts, mutants and outlaws but also from dust storms.

With those challenges, you might as well put the farmland under glass pyramids (so damaged planes can be replaced with relative ease) in the middle of fortified arcologies.

There is also that most kinds of farming is a hurry up-and-wait affair, where you have periods of intense work while other periods you just need to keep an eye on it at most, leaving people with plenty a-time to do other things.

Crops CONSTANTLY need people to keep an eye on them- people who are too busy to do anything else, if you don't have enough to organize them into shifts. Blights, parasites, and opportunistic animals may strike at any time.

 

Nitpicks, with my emphasis:

Blood Angles geneseed.

I think you meant "Blood AngELs gene-seed"- note the dash between the words "gene" and "seed".

Thanks, have fixed that.

The OP still states the Knights have "Blood Angles gene-seed", NOT "Blood Angels gene-seed".

 

The fact the Chapter has few jump packs, makes me wonder if it uses jetbikes in their place, and Pegasus Knights (riding Pegasus pattern jetbikes) in place of Assault Marines and Inceptors.

They would probably love to but I was thinking (which I have not added to the OP but should) that they are not the most technological advanced Chapter or well supplied, they are just not important enough and located a bit too far away.

 

One of the reasons why they have few jump packs is that they have lost them throughout they millennia and not gotten enough new ones. Was actually thinking that their Sanguinary Guard don’t have the ornate winged jump packs that the standard do but only have standard jump packs, painted gold because they have lost / don’t get some of the things they need to create new ones / repair the old ones.

Sounds like the Knights should partner with the White Scars or their successors, to get training and equipment for Bikers/Outriders with which to fill the Fast Attack role an Assault Marine/Inceptor usually has. Edited December 4, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I think you've done well capturing a 'knightly feel' for the chapter.

 

I actually quite like the more objectively pointless elements of honour and duty that isn't as necessary on a modern battlefield and organisation, but is still done because 'knightly reasons'.

 

In response to Bjorn, we can track where blood that has been donated goes, sometimes even globally. If you're telling me that there isn't an honour-roll for the chapter, for each company or hell, even for each squad nor a digital footprint for who the gene-seed has been taken from by the apothacarian, even if it's cataloguing is relegated to the chapters serfs, you're slightly mad.

 

An army runs on good logistics, not sword swinging alone. Aside from that, Chivalric Knights themselves were in many cases required to learn other skills, including music, other languages, art and calligraphy as well as becoming literate. None of these things made them stronger in the use of their blade arm specifically, but it gave them perspective and experience that frames your use of your weapon. While Astartes are not the same, this chapter does come from Blood Angels stock, who themselves put a huge emphasis on artistic pursuits for their brethren.

 

 

I do agree there needs to be more 'steeds' or bikes being used here, definitely needs more.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

My concern with lineages is regarding the risk the Marines who inherit these lineages will feel entitled, ruining the meritocracy a Chapter should have. How many stories have been written in which a noble scion is a spoiled brat who believes he is entitled to certain privileges, simply because of his ancestors' accomplishments? In that case, the noble scion is disinterested in trying to accomplish something on his own, because he arrogantly feels no need to do so.

 

One possible solution will be to take ideas from Vulkan He'stan's biography. Say the newfound Chapter was blooded in a fierce battle that saw all but 300 Marines die; those survivors rebuilt the Chapter and then made more great accomplishments, before they eventually fell in battle. The rebuilt Chapter immortalized the 300 by granting their names to Marines promoted to its elites- Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard Veterans, Honor Guards- a lineage based on individual accomplishments, not on gene-seed.

 

How does this work? Say Battle-brother Karl is inducted into the Vanguard Veterans Squad. Upon induction, his name is changed to "Leon Karl" in honor of Battle-brother Leon, hero of a thousand battles; his lineage is henceforth considered to be that of Leon's (though he won't necessarily have the long-dead Leon's gene-seed), inheriting the honors and accomplishments of Leons past, with future Leons to inherit Karl's own honors and accomplishments. If Karl dishonors himself, he will be stripped of both names; the name "Leon", the honors and accomplishments associated with it, will be passed onto another worthy Marine, who will hopefully avenge the dishonor the now nameless Marine inflicted upon the lineage, by killing the one once known as "Karl".

Edited December 10, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Gamiel]

 

 

My concern with lineages is regarding the risk the Marines who inherit these lineages will feel entitled, ruining the meritocracy a Chapter should have. How many stories have been written in which a noble scion is a spoiled brat who believes he is entitled to certain privileges, simply because of his ancestors' accomplishments? In that case, the noble scion is disinterested in trying to accomplish something on his own, because he arrogantly feels no need to do so.

Yep. That's the idea.

 

I did not want the CK to be too bright/noble/functional but have some internal problems, but at the same time not be some kind of noble monster/dying/tragic hero/ghoulish/undead/vampiric/such Chapter (I have other Chapters in the wings for that). So something similar to the internal problems of the Scythes of the Emperor that also work in a "noble linage" concept was what I went with.

 

But to counter (in a way) the tendency of entitlement/privilege is that Marines having older/noble gene-seed have more expected from them.