All phobos army

[greatcrusade08]

Hi guys

been contemplating where to put this thread, whether it belongs in tactica or not.

Ive been mulling over new rules and want to try an all phobos "scout" army.

I figure raven guard for help with sniping makes sense.

 

I dont have an outline of a list yet, but have two invictor war suits coming with the phobos captain

i have two units of infiltrators, two eliminators and two units of reivers.

im concerned about lack of anti tank, do you think a unit of eliminators with las fusil would work with the two warsuits to give me some tank killing ability?

 

Anyway looking for any advice, for list building, loadout.

 

Should i be looking at getting incursors as well as infiltrators?

are the infiltrator mini medics worth taking?

 

thanks guys

[Rik Lightstar]

Just to say, I really rate Invictor Fists for doing some serious damage to vehicles at Strength 14 AP-3 and a Flat 3 Damage Stat.

 

White Scars are a good fit too for the Advance and Charge Trait and the +1 Damage from Turn 3 Onwards which will help to churn through any opposing Marine forces.

 

Rik

[greatcrusade08]

Just to say, I really rate Invictor Fists for doing some serious damage to vehicles at Strength 14 AP-3 and a Flat 3 Damage Stat.

 

White Scars are a good fit too for the Advance and Charge Trait and the +1 Damage from Turn 3 Onwards which will help to churn through any opposing Marine forces.

 

Rik

 

cheers bud, yeah some advice i had gotten previously recommended either RG and WS..

I think RG fits the sniping aspect well.. but given im running successor i can switch between if it doesnt work.

Still getting to grips with new rules, i havent really played for over an edition

Edited December 1, 2020 by greatcrusade08

[Rik Lightstar]

I've been running all Primaris since the start of 8th and Anit-Tank has certainly been a weakness, obviously they're now getting the tools to deal with it much better.

 

The new Storm Speeders appear to have Phobos armoured crew, so they'd be an option.

 

I'd definitely consider some appropriate additions to the Phobos limitation to maybe work around this, Suppressors and Plasma Inceptors for example can be a later game drop force for support.

 

However I remember seeing your all Scout force from before so maybe you're not too keen on that step. Maybe converting up some Scouts to stick with your 10th Company theme and giving some Power Fists, Combi-Meltas and Missile Launchers?

 

Hopefully the Phobos Sergeants will be getting access to a better range of weapons and Primaris will get access to Melta Bombs as a Stratagem soon.

 

Rik

[greatcrusade08]

 

However I remember seeing your all Scout force from before so maybe you're not too keen on that step. Maybe converting up some Scouts to stick with your 10th Company theme and giving some Power Fists, Combi-Meltas and Missile Launchers?

 

Hopefully the Phobos Sergeants will be getting access to a better range of weapons and Primaris will get access to Melta Bombs as a Stratagem soon.

 

Rik

 

I could possibly add normal scouts in, they fit the scouty theme.

i do hope they get some tasty wargear soon..

im eager to give the las fusil idea a run out, one in each unit of 3 will stop focussed fire from getting rid too

[greatcrusade08]

 

The new Storm Speeders appear to have Phobos armoured crew, so they'd be an option.

 

 

They do???

ive not seen any pics, dont appear to be up on GW site. 

[WAR]

Great to see you around stil GC08 .I remember following your UM 10th company thread that inspired my Raptors 10th company. 

[Rik Lightstar]

 

 

The new Storm Speeders appear to have Phobos armoured crew, so they'd be an option.

 

 

They do???

ive not seen any pics, dont appear to be up on GW site. 

 

 

They're on the Warhammer Community site https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/12/the-codex-show/

 

Only 1 pic of each variant and hopefully they'll be out soon.

 

Rik

[Mandragola]

I’ve been thinking about something similar to this, though it could be difficult to make work on the table. The problem is that the Phobos units (apart from Eliminators) are all kind of similar: guys with quite a lot of S4 D1 attacks, mostly at ap0. Incursors get ap-1 knives but that’s it. These guys are good at getting where you need them to be, but not especially dangerous once they get there.

 

Meanwhile, the thing that Ravenguard really do well is to get non-phobos units to infiltrate. It’s about getting a character and unit of aggressors to show up using master of ambush, or vanguard vets to do turn one charges with infiltrators. After all, anyone’s infiltrators can infiltrate – only Raven Guard Aggressors can.

 

I’m not suggesting that you should throw out the idea, but maybe it can be modified somewhat to expand the units available to you, and the modelling opportunities. For example, perhaps you could use phobos bodies with other equipment and weapons to produce “counts as” intercessors, hellblasters and so on. Maybe an inceptor could be replaced by a guy riding a little jet bike or something. I’ve got a silly idea for making something vaguely like a star wars jet bike out of an AI lightning fighter with something sticking out the front and guns from… somewhere.

[Dracos]

Hi guys

. . . . . 

 

im concerned about lack of anti tank, do you think a unit of eliminators with las fusil would work with the two warsuits to give me some tank killing ability?

 

Anyway looking for any advice, for list building, loadout.

 

Should i be looking at getting incursors as well as infiltrators?

are the infiltrator mini medics worth taking?

 

thanks guys

 

Tanks haven't been a big issue in 9e (yet) but with your limitations you have set for yourself I would absolutely load your heavies with Las-fusil Eliminators (BS2 yay) and do your best to pound something heavy with the Invictors with Flamer to clear chaff, before the pilot has to bail out of a burning wreck it will turn into every Turn 2.

 

Incursors over Infiltrators 6 out of 7 days of the week, just don't ask which one.

 

Not a fan of Apothecaries. I'd rather just have more models doing work from the get go.

 

Best  wishes on your project. Very gutsy to go all Phobos. My personal thought is currently GW messed up on Chapter/unit synergies. Raven Guard need Phobos less than any other Chapter. Matter of fact we are the premier Chapter to feature an all Gravis army (shrug)

 

 

Edit: PS - I really like Rik thoughts on the new Speeders being part of this project. Gives them some punch and fast moving units they wouldn't have otherwise.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Dracos

[VoceNoctum]

I'm aiming for an Iron Ravens, mix of phobos advance units and then a more solid team of strikers to follow on, hammer and anvil style. Of course, I'm sort of limited in what I select based on what I've already bought (Shadowspear and Indomitus) and then adding as theme goes, so not $ guides list as much as points do... :)

[jpwyrm]

I'm always interested in recon/scout themed forces. I used to follow your progress on your all scout army, very inspiring work by the way.

 

I think some Infiltrators and Incursors will serve you good. I would go 2-4 Incursors and 1-2 Infiltrators. I like the medic thematically but I'm not sure it's worth it so much.

 

If you lasfusil on your eliminators for long range AT, then maybe it would be worth it to add a couple of sniper scout squads to leverage the Raven Guard Super Doctrine. Invictors are a given, I really like those things!

 

As far as Fast Attack goes, I prefer the ATVs. With multimeltas and an Apothecary close by, they can help with AT and be a real thorn in your opponent's side. They are not phobos unit though so unless you're willing to convert the driver and gunner, they may not make your final cut for the army.

 

I would suggest Flyers as a thematic addition for a recon force. These can add AT as much as weight of fire to your army, not to mention crazy maneuverability. But they are fragile and make for an obvious target for the opposing force's AT weapons. Having the Invictors and some ATVs could mitigate that though as it would force your opponent to make tough choices.

 

Hope this helps, good luck with your project!

[ShinyRhino]

I have been working on an all Phobos army for a while now. The edition change really kicked my plans in the face, but I'm still trying to make it a fun force to play, even if it's not competitive.

 

I'm looking into using my Phobos Librarian more extensively, as well as the Reiver Lieutenant. I actually really dislike the Phobos Captain, because he doesn't do anything useful other than be a reroll bubble. So boring.

 

Between the Umbramancy and Obscuration disciplines, we've got some great flexible powers. Need a Librarian who can carve things up? Umbramancy's Spectral Blade is your power. Want to keep a mean melee unit away from your lines for a bit? Obscuration has Tenebrous Curse.

 

Taking all Phobos also releases you from the shackles of Master of Ambush and Strike from the Shadows. That frees you up to take traits like Rites of War, Stealth Adept, or Swift and Deadly.

 

You'll probably be focusing more on Secondary Objective points and holding primary objectives than kill points. Remember that all your various bolt carbines are better during turns 2 and 3, and that all your blades are better in 4/5 due to Doctrines.

 

All in all, be slippery and frustrating to fight by applying psychic debuffs and moving your units away. It's Marines on Hard Mode. Make it hilarious and fun and it'll be worth playing.

[greatcrusade08]

Great to see you around stil GC08 .I remember following your UM 10th company thread that inspired my Raptors 10th company. 

 

I'm always interested in recon/scout themed forces. I used to follow your progress on your all scout army, very inspiring work by the way.

 

 

 

Thanks guys, been a few years, surprised people still remember me.

 

There is some nice synergy to some of the phobos units and whilst i can understand the dislike for the phobos captain, the warlord traits he has access to is really nice.

Im definitely going to try get some mileage from lords of deceit to redeploy units pre game.

The infiltrators comm array lets them benefit from captain and Lt rerolls anywhere on board.

And the Librarian has some nice psychic abilities.

 

anyhoo im still struggling to cacth up with newer editions, but this is what im thinking so far

 

Phobos Captain

-Vox espiritum

-lord of deceit

Phobos LT

Phobos librarian

-Hallucination

-Shrouding

 

10 infiltrators

-comms array

10 infiltrators

-comms array

5 incursors

-haywire mine

5 incursors

-haywire mine

 

10 reivers

10 reivers

 

invictor warsuit

invictor warsuit

 

3 eliminators

3 eliminators

3 eliminators

-3 las fusil

 

running as a successor, thinking of stealthy and hungry for battle traits

Not sure what benefits progenitor chapters bring, im still trying to figure that out

And need to pick secondary obs, any advice gratefully received

 

still have 25 points spare too, might use grav chutes on one unit of reivers, or try and squeeze in some more las fusil

 

thanks guys 

Edited December 5, 2020 by greatcrusade08

[VoceNoctum]

 

Great to see you around stil GC08 .I remember following your UM 10th company thread that inspired my Raptors 10th company. 

 

I'm always interested in recon/scout themed forces. I used to follow your progress on your all scout army, very inspiring work by the way.

 

 

 

still have 25 points spare too, might use grav chutes on one unit of reivers, or try and squeeze in some more las fusil

 

thanks guys 

 

Chief Librarian is 25pts extra, gives you a 3rd power known and a second Deny

[Mandragola]

I'm sorry to say that looking at that army doesn't inspire confidence. Essentially what you've done is identify all the phobos units available to marines and then spam them till you fill up 2000 points. Unfortunately the end result is an army that is extremely lacking in multiple essential areas. It is not tough, it can't fight in melee, it has negligible damage output and it's not fast. This is an army that will be cut down like grass by pretty much anything - and not only by the more competitive lists out there.

 

It's not just that you have no anti-tank (or definitely not after turn 1, when your eliminators and invictors die). The bigger problem is having no units able to fight for the midfield. 9th edition is about controlling midfield objectives. You can set up your army on top of them, but all that does is guarantee you suffer enormous casualties on turn one and then lose those objectives. At worst, you're actually accelerating enemy assault units like Custodians and Bladeguard, by giving them something to charge. Units that might have had to do a risky 1D6" run move to get to those objectives will have an easier 2D6" charge move, and a the bonus of getting to cut up your troops when they get there.

 

Meanwhile your damage output is virtually non-existent. Against hordes you've got a bit of a chance if you can concentrate fire and outmanoeuvre them (though this probably means surrendering objectives to them) but the meta isn't really about hordes. Quite a lot of armies are fielding T5 models with 3 wounds like Gravis marines, which can improve their save to a 2+ against 1D attacks. Attacking them with S4 Ap0 1D weapons like bolters and knives is hopeless. Meanwhile you'll be getting hit back by power fists, storms of plasma from inceptors, and all sorts of other horrible high-ap, D2 weapons that people like to spam in a meta that's dominated by marines.

 

Sorry if this seems harsh. It looks to me like you're walking into a trap here, and potentially about to spend a lot of money and time on an army that will not give you a good playing experience. I feel like I should at least warn you about this. I can't recommend building this army. Sorry.

[jpwyrm]

I have to agree with Mandragola - the list you presented lacks some teeth. Not that you should expect an all Phobos army to mop the board all games, far from it in fact, but you still need a way to inflict damage on your opponent's army. You'll have to do it were and when it counts, but that is part of the challenge of a light recon force. Here's a list I cobbled together after you posted yours. It's still focused heavily on Phobos units, but I allowed some flexibility to get a little more firepower :

 

Phobos Chapter Master (Vox esperitum would be helpfull here)

Phobos Librarian

Phobos Lt (probably with Ex Tenebris and maybe Target Priority to help the Eliminators)

Reiver Lt

3 x 5-man Incursor Squads

1 x 5-man Infiltrator Squad with comms

2 x Invictor Warsuits (not sure yet if they should get Incendium cannon or the autocannon)

2 x 5 man sniper scout squads with camo cloaks

2 x Suppressor squads

2 x Eliminator Squads with Lasfusil

1 x Stormhawk with Typhoon missile launcher and Las-talon

 

So the Suppressors and Stormhawk break the Phobos rule, but everything else still fits. The Stormhawk can hunt down tanks or characters with it's crazy mobility, but mostly it will act as a bullet magnet because your opponent will be scared of it's firepower. With two Warsuits, the Stormhawk and the Eliminators, you should have enough high priority targets to force your opponent to make mistakes, or at least choose between two evil. Meanwhile, you should play Hide and Seek with your infantry and pull all the tricks in the Raven Guard/Phobos trick, Infiltration, deep strike, reposition, etc., to score your secondaries and grab primaries/deny primaries to your opponent. 9th Edition is a game of objectives and since you wont be destroying the opposition very often, you'll have to focus on scoring even more. In that kind of list, I have a feeling the standard Raven Guard Chapter Tactics would be more helpfull than anything else, but I have yet to try the Successors traits so maybe you can come up with something more efficient.

[greatcrusade08]

Hi guys i really appreciate the comments

@mandragola no need to apologise, thats why i post here, i havent played in some time, so not sure what the meta shows, or what works.

I do currently own a suppressor squad, so happy to reconsider.

Im guessing there is no love for the reivers then?

 

im happy to start looking at other builds, and any comments are welcome, even critical ones

[Dracos]

Harsh but mostly true.

 

Constructive advice. Eliminators will last more longer than suggested by others. They’re good trust me. Flop your count for Incursors (10each) and infiltrators (5each). Incursors are just better and cheaper in 9e.

 

Suggestion: I feel given they were released with and can only be found in the Shadowspear box Suppressors should make this list. Maybe drop a unit of Infiltrators? I would also just go with 2 five man Reiver with wings units to drop down and act as action monkeys for Engage on All Fronts, Deploy Scramblers etc. might get another squad of Suppressors that way.

 

Good Luck it looks fun

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks Dracos. i like the infiltrators for two reasons, stops DS and comms array to get buffs to shooting.

incursors are very good though

 

i think 5 man units probably better though, new blast rules are interesting

Edited December 8, 2020 by greatcrusade08

[Rik Lightstar]

I really like the Reiver models, but the rules SUCK 

 

I agree with what Mandragola and JPWyrm said about the overall effectiveness of your list I'd be tempted to try to keep more in theme with the Phobos thing so I'd make the following changes.

 

Phobos Chapter Master (Vox esperitum would be helpfull here)

Phobos Librarian

Phobos Lt (probably with Ex Tenebris and maybe Target Priority to help the Eliminators)

Reiver Lt

3 x 5-man Incursor Squads

1 x 5-man Infiltrator Squad with comms

2 x Invictor Warsuits (not sure yet if they should get Incendium cannon or the autocannon)

2 x 5 man sniper scout squads with camo cloaks

2 x Suppressor squads

2 x Eliminator Squads with Lasfusil

1 x Stormhawk with Typhoon missile launcher and Las-talon

 

And put in two of the new Storm Speeder Thunderstrikes when they come out, they're pretty similar to the Stormhawk in overall performance I'd think.

 

Then add either:

• a Third Thunderstrike,
• a Third Invictor,
• a Third Squad of Eliminators and an additional Troops choice.

Rik

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks guys, i really appreciate the feedback..

It seems you all like the same core elements, that im sure will form the backbone of my lists.

eliminators for sure, im thinking 3 units, 2 with las fusil?

the invictor warsuits, i prefer autocannons for flexibility

5 man squads, incursors preferred to infiltrators (one or two units to stop alpha strikes)

 

can i ask what the reiver Lt brings to lists, i wasnt sold on him at first glance?

[Dracos]

My thought is he is the closest thing to a character hunting beat stick with the RG relic blade your going to find. Man I forgot all about the Speeders. Yeah definitely cool add to a ”Phobos” list.

[Rik Lightstar]

Thanks guys, i really appreciate the feedback..

It seems you all like the same core elements, that im sure will form the backbone of my lists.

eliminators for sure, im thinking 3 units, 2 with las fusil?

the invictor warsuits, i prefer autocannons for flexibility

5 man squads, incursors preferred to infiltrators (one or two units to stop alpha strikes)

 

can i ask what the reiver Lt brings to lists, i wasnt sold on him at first glance?

 

The Reiver Lt can be given the Fear Made Manifest Warlord Trait for a total -3 to enemy Ld within his little bubble, along with a -1 to attrition tests, along with any of your infantry squads they can really put the hurt on any large unit through the new Morale rules.

 

LD test - D6 + Models lost, got to roll under LD, if you fail lose a model and take attrition tests for the rest

Attrition test - Roll a D6 for each model, on a 1 they're gone, under half strength gives -1 and another -1 for the Warlord Trait

 

It means you're likely to drop 50% of the remaining models if you can get them to half strength with some shooting and a charge.

 

Rik

[greatcrusade08]

My thought is he is the closest thing to a character hunting beat stick with the RG relic blade your going to find. Man I forgot all about the Speeders. Yeah definitely cool add to a ”Phobos” list.

 

the thunderstrikes look amazing, would double up nicely with the invictor warsuits to add some beef to the list