All phobos army

[Mandragola]

I think we're making good progress here.

 

The Reiver LT is interesting because of the stratagems you can play on him. In particular, there's one that removes obsec from nearby enemy units, which is extremely powerful. It means he can walk onto an objective and take it from whatever is there. As a character, he's much harder for your opponent to target and remove.

 

The decision between incursors and infiltrators is tricky, but personally I come down heavily on the side of incursors. Having a bit of ap in melee makes a huge difference - actually 50% more damage against 3+ armour save targets. Their guns are also better, especially now that penalties to hit are much more common. Plus of course they're quite a lot cheaper, especially if you're not buying them that comms array. You save 20 points for every 5 man squad. Bear in mind that your characters are sometimes able to infiltrate and bring their auras where they're needed anyway.

 

Speaking of characters, have you considered bringing Shrike? He's a phobos character with a nice set of lightning claws, which could be just what you need to up your damage a bit. It means playing as real Raven Guard instead of a successor, but their rules are pretty solid anyway.

 

It sounds like you're good at conversions. I'd encourage you to have a think about where you can use that skill to produce other kinds of units wearing Phobos armour. For example, maybe you could use some Reiver bodies with jump packs to make some Vanguard Veterans. It looks like lightning claws and storm shields are a good load-out to go with. These have basically the same profile as Primaris marines so lots of people are converting them out of various things (usually Reivers or assault intercessors). This could also give you a bit of a fun project in the army, rather than painting loads of identical guys.

[Dracos]

I love my Shrike model. He isn’t unber durable and doesn’t have a role like a Smash captain , but he can be anywhere you need him and he can get some work done. (He did the lions work and brought down a Bomma in one game I played recently) Getting the buffs he brings repositioned on the table is what I like the most. Lands with Plasma Inceptors T2 shoots up the place then T3 he’s halfway across the board helping Bladeguard bring down a pack Rubic Marines like a Boss

[greatcrusade08]

I think we're making good progress here.

 

The Reiver LT is interesting because of the stratagems you can play on him. In particular, there's one that removes obsec from nearby enemy units, which is extremely powerful. It means he can walk onto an objective and take it from whatever is there. As a character, he's much harder for your opponent to target and remove.

 

The decision between incursors and infiltrators is tricky, but personally I come down heavily on the side of incursors. Having a bit of ap in melee makes a huge difference - actually 50% more damage against 3+ armour save targets. Their guns are also better, especially now that penalties to hit are much more common. Plus of course they're quite a lot cheaper, especially if you're not buying them that comms array. You save 20 points for every 5 man squad. Bear in mind that your characters are sometimes able to infiltrate and bring their auras where they're needed anyway.

 

Speaking of characters, have you considered bringing Shrike? He's a phobos character with a nice set of lightning claws, which could be just what you need to up your damage a bit. It means playing as real Raven Guard instead of a successor, but their rules are pretty solid anyway.

 

It sounds like you're good at conversions. I'd encourage you to have a think about where you can use that skill to produce other kinds of units wearing Phobos armour. For example, maybe you could use some Reiver bodies with jump packs to make some Vanguard Veterans. It looks like lightning claws and storm shields are a good load-out to go with. These have basically the same profile as Primaris marines so lots of people are converting them out of various things (usually Reivers or assault intercessors). This could also give you a bit of a fun project in the army, rather than painting loads of identical guys.

 

Some great ideas here.. its still early days, ive only painted a couple models, so switching chapters is eminently doable and i really like the idea of converting reivers into more badass units.

Shrike would be epic, i hadnt actually considered him, but your selling it well.

 

the worry i have with reiver Lt is delivery, he doesnt have grav chutes, and cant outflank, he can infiltrate (or whatever its called now), but would need to be close to other units to avoid getting targeted

 

Im going to go and look up shrikes rules now :)

 

can anyone point me to other specific RG rules, the new codex gives them stealthy and hard cover.. can anyone describe how this works.. and more importantly where is this buff to sniping rules, i cant find it?

 

thanks guys

[Captain Idaho]

Good to see you back on it, mate. Don't be a stranger in the Ultramarines forum ;)

 

In the meantime, I'll follow your new models and see what glory you can produce.

[greatcrusade08]

Good to see you back on it, mate. Don't be a stranger in the Ultramarines forum

 

In the meantime, I'll follow your new models and see what glory you can produce.

 

cheers bud, ive been past the UM forum a couple times, all new faces, good to see your still here :)

[hortanium]

Infiltration I believe is what is now called concealed positions and as far as I can tell, the reiver Lt does not have that ability.

[Trokair]

Have you considered running the army as Deathwatch instead of Raven Guard?

 

You could then run units of 5 Infiltrators with 5 Eliminators and then combat squad them or leave them as one big unit with some spare bodies to protect the Eliminators. You would also be less reliant on Lieutenants due to the Deathwatch trait (and specialism) and can be more flexible with the Doctrines depending on what you need in any particular turn.

 

Obviously you would lose the Raven Guard trait and related special rules and no Shrike. Would also mean no Chapter Master, as the Watch Master fills that role.

[Guardian of the Rage]

Great topic, i have begun these as a raven guard successor with stealthy and HfB traits as well. I play in a setting probably half way between ‘beer and pretzels’ and competitive but here are my observations.

 

Game play and stratagems

I have focused on manipulating deployment and pre game moves to enable alpha/beta strikes on isolated targets. This also relies of hiding from part of the enemy army/target saturation in local area to survive. I have found CP to be a problem by turn 3 on multiple occasions as there are several good stratagems to enable this approach but they do stack up fast.

 

After a while i have begun to appreciate the value of the orbital bombardment stratagem. The army relies on picking off isolated elements early and opponents can see that sometimes; castling up is something i have seen multiple times. It is expensive but it really helps force the opponent to spread out; the damage is never that severe from the strike, it usually comes with the beta strike.

 

Other good ones from the main book not to overlook are guerilla tactics (late game Phobos objectives scoring), smokescreen (-1 to hit your unit for Incursors/infiltrators) and hit-and-run warfare (extra fall back and shoot on landspeeders, bikes and storm speeder).

 

Lists

I am about 2/3rds of the way through the army and have played around with them a lot. Most of the comments in the thread make a lot of sense based upon what i have been doing. Phobos is highly limiting and particularly in the hard hitting assault and anti armour punch. I have done a fair bit of converting to plug gaps in the range.

 

Assault- I have converted vanguard veterans from reivers with various bits and jump packs. Maybe this a bit of cop out but we really need these and the conversion wasn’t that hard.

The invictors are also vital. I would also consider reivers with chainswords as assault intercessors. I also have blade guard veterans conversion planned.

 

Anti armour- I am going to be using the thunder strike and 2 hammer strikes (when they eventually come out). They are slightly over costed i think but they are the options that this army has by default. I also plan to do an eradication’s conversion using Incursors, boarding shields and melta guns with combi melta attachments.

 

Units

I have found that infiltrators are great at surviving/holding. The helix gauntlet (ignore first wounding hit each turn), plus cover, plus smokescreen can make them very hard to remove and is an auto include for me. The Incursors do seem to under perform for me, i want them to be good but they. Never seem to live up to what i want from them; same with the reivers. Eliminators always seem to worth their inclusion.

 

the Warsuit is a vital part of the army. 2/3 are vital to apply pressure and to deal with harder targets. I have also found the auto cannon superior as this is precisely the sort of firepower that you lack.

 

Phobos librarians with Tenebrous curse have always performed well for me, that ability to affect enemy movement is great for mitigating part of the counter strike. A captain/chaplain with master of ambush (like most RG lists) is an auto include for genuine alpha strike threat on your terms. I have converted Phobos versions of each of these. The Lord of Deceit trait has been a go to for me also due to the focus on pre game manipulation.

 

i would like to try out the death storm pod (alpha/distraction), eradicators with deep strike and landspeeders equipped for anti armour duties. Conversions are possible for these!

 

My currently intended full 2k list - all Phobos or converted with 10CP at start.

 

Captain - JP, Twin LCs, master crafted, MoA and imperiums sword traits (trifold path)

Phobos librarian - Lord of Deceit (hero of chapter)

 

Incursors 5

Infiltrators 5 - Helix

Infiltrators 5 - Helix

 

Invictor Warsuit 

Invictor Warsuit

reivers 5 - grav chutes

Vanguards 5 - JPs, Twin LCs x3, LC&SS x2

Vanguards 5 - JPs, TH&SS x5

 

Hammer strike

Hammer strike

Thunder strike

 

Eliminators 3

Eliminators 3

 

 

i hope this is useful and would love to chat more about it.

[greatcrusade08]

Infiltration I believe is what is now called concealed positions and as far as I can tell, the reiver Lt does not have that ability.

 

How would we get the Reiver Lt into action without grav chutes, concealed positions or a transport? he seems a bit meh.

 

Great topic, i have begun these as a raven guard successor with stealthy and HfB traits as well. I play in a setting probably half way between ‘beer and pretzels’ and competitive but here are my observations.

 

Game play and stratagems

I have focused on manipulating deployment and pre game moves to enable alpha/beta strikes on isolated targets. This also relies of hiding from part of the enemy army/target saturation in local area to survive. I have found CP to be a problem by turn 3 on multiple occasions as there are several good stratagems to enable this approach but they do stack up fast.

 

After a while i have begun to appreciate the value of the orbital bombardment stratagem. The army relies on picking off isolated elements early and opponents can see that sometimes; castling up is something i have seen multiple times. It is expensive but it really helps force the opponent to spread out; the damage is never that severe from the strike, it usually comes with the beta strike.

 

Other good ones from the main book not to overlook are guerilla tactics (late game Phobos objectives scoring), smokescreen (-1 to hit your unit for Incursors/infiltrators) and hit-and-run warfare (extra fall back and shoot on landspeeders, bikes and storm speeder).

 

Lists

I am about 2/3rds of the way through the army and have played around with them a lot. Most of the comments in the thread make a lot of sense based upon what i have been doing. Phobos is highly limiting and particularly in the hard hitting assault and anti armour punch. I have done a fair bit of converting to plug gaps in the range.

 

Assault- I have converted vanguard veterans from reivers with various bits and jump packs. Maybe this a bit of cop out but we really need these and the conversion wasn’t that hard.

The invictors are also vital. I would also consider reivers with chainswords as assault intercessors. I also have blade guard veterans conversion planned.

 

Anti armour- I am going to be using the thunder strike and 2 hammer strikes (when they eventually come out). They are slightly over costed i think but they are the options that this army has by default. I also plan to do an eradication’s conversion using Incursors, boarding shields and melta guns with combi melta attachments.

 

Units

I have found that infiltrators are great at surviving/holding. The helix gauntlet (ignore first wounding hit each turn), plus cover, plus smokescreen can make them very hard to remove and is an auto include for me. The Incursors do seem to under perform for me, i want them to be good but they. Never seem to live up to what i want from them; same with the reivers. Eliminators always seem to worth their inclusion.

 

the Warsuit is a vital part of the army. 2/3 are vital to apply pressure and to deal with harder targets. I have also found the auto cannon superior as this is precisely the sort of firepower that you lack.

 

Phobos librarians with Tenebrous curse have always performed well for me, that ability to affect enemy movement is great for mitigating part of the counter strike. A captain/chaplain with master of ambush (like most RG lists) is an auto include for genuine alpha strike threat on your terms. I have converted Phobos versions of each of these. The Lord of Deceit trait has been a go to for me also due to the focus on pre game manipulation.

 

i would like to try out the death storm pod (alpha/distraction), eradicators with deep strike and landspeeders equipped for anti armour duties. Conversions are possible for these!

 

My currently intended full 2k list - all Phobos or converted with 10CP at start.

 

Captain - JP, Twin LCs, master crafted, MoA and imperiums sword traits (trifold path)

Phobos librarian - Lord of Deceit (hero of chapter)

 

Incursors 5

Infiltrators 5 - Helix

Infiltrators 5 - Helix

 

Invictor Warsuit 

Invictor Warsuit

reivers 5 - grav chutes

Vanguards 5 - JPs, Twin LCs x3, LC&SS x2

Vanguards 5 - JPs, TH&SS x5

 

Hammer strike

Hammer strike

Thunder strike

 

Eliminators 3

Eliminators 3

 

 

i hope this is useful and would love to chat more about it.

 

looks good, i havent brought the RG supplement yet as i hadnt intended to go RG until this thread.. your all such bad influences, i hope your happy with yourselves 

im guessing non phobos units can use concealed positions, is this right?

 

so far ive got

shrike

phobos librarian

phobos Lt

 

5 incursor

5 incursor

5 incursor

5 infiltrator

 

invictor warsuit

invictor warsuit

10 reivers

 

storm thunderstrike

storm thunderstrike

 

3 eliminators

3 eliminators

3 eliminators with las fusil

 

does give me 100 pts, toying with putting in a unit of supressors, 9 autocannon shots not to be sniffed at, the reivers are interchangeable with vanguard vets once they are done.

[VoceNoctum]

The Reiver Lieutenant lacks Death From Above or Concealed Positions, so if you don't put him in Strategic Reserves, he'll have to walk all the way to the battle like any other grunt.

 

The main one I remember with Concealed Position that is not Phobos is the Invictor, but not all Phobos have it either. The Phobos Lieutenant has Death From Above for example.

 

I'd kind of like a melee focused phobos unit, Concealed Positions and Lightning Claws maybe.

[greatcrusade08]

The Reiver Lieutenant lacks Death From Above or Concealed Positions, so if you don't put him in Strategic Reserves, he'll have to walk all the way to the battle like any other grunt.

 

The main one I remember with Concealed Position that is not Phobos is the Invictor, but not all Phobos have it either. The Phobos Lieutenant has Death From Above for example.

 

I'd kind of like a melee focused phobos unit, Concealed Positions and Lightning Claws maybe.

 

If hes in strategic reserves he can outflank is this correct? so he does have some use after all.

 

this might be a dumb Q, how does named character Shrike work with warlord traits? can he choose from vanguard traits?

if so lord of deceit would allow for strategic reserves and redeploy shenanigans, alternatively master of vanguard would combine +1 charge to his inbuilt reroll almost guaranteeing first turn charges or charges from reserves,

[jpwyrm]

Shrike has a fixed Warlord Trait (Shadow Master, so no overwatching). It's not as good as it used to be but still usefull.

 

You can use the Infiltrate stratagem to move and advance the Reiver Lt pregame. It's not Concealed Positions, but it can help you bring him were you need him early on. Alternatively, you coukd use Strike from the Shadows stratagem to deep strike him where you want him starting from turn two.

 

I like the Suppressors. For 100 pts they add some quality fire power to your list. If you are willing to include Vanguard Vets over Reivers, I would definitely encourage you to do so. They have a lot more going for them, especially with Shrike tagging along.

[greatcrusade08]

Shrike has a fixed Warlord Trait (Shadow Master, so no overwatching). It's not as good as it used to be but still usefull.

 

You can use the Infiltrate stratagem to move and advance the Reiver Lt pregame. It's not Concealed Positions, but it can help you bring him were you need him early on. Alternatively, you coukd use Strike from the Shadows stratagem to deep strike him where you want him starting from turn two.

 

I like the Suppressors. For 100 pts they add some quality fire power to your list. If you are willing to include Vanguard Vets over Reivers, I would definitely encourage you to do so. They have a lot more going for them, especially with Shrike tagging along.

would it be better to use a different character as warlord then?

[jpwyrm]

Definitely. You really want Shrike for his multiple buffes and his melee prowess. Plus you loose the possibility of giving two Warlord Traits to a generic character if you make a named character your warlord.

[Mandragola]

The easiest way to get a Reiver up field is probably the master of ambush warlord trait. That lets you put him and another infantry unit (like some vanguard vets) up the board.

 

You do kind of need the codex supplement. It (and all the other 8th edition marine supplements) comes for free with the app, if you subscribe. It’s worth doing that so you can read all the warlord traits and stratagems. These are truly essential to understanding how the army works.

[templargdt]

GC08- Thrilled to see you bro.  I loved your all Scout stuff back in the day, was one of my favorite things here besides "The Way of the Water Warrior" Grey Knights guy.  Looking forward to seeing your project grow and in action!

[greatcrusade08]

GC08- Thrilled to see you bro.  I loved your all Scout stuff back in the day, was one of my favorite things here besides "The Way of the Water Warrior" Grey Knights guy.  Looking forward to seeing your project grow and in action!

Thanks bud, good to be back in the game

 

 

The easiest way to get a Reiver up field is probably the master of ambush warlord trait. That lets you put him and another infantry unit (like some vanguard vets) up the board.

 

You do kind of need the codex supplement. It (and all the other 8th edition marine supplements) comes for free with the app, if you subscribe. It’s worth doing that so you can read all the warlord traits and stratagems. These are truly essential to understanding how the army works.

Im using battelscribe until i can order the supplement

Im thinking if i take the revier Lt as warlord i can give him master of ambush and the oppresors end relic

master if ambush to infiltrate the non phobos vanguard unit for first turn strike combo with shrike. Oppressors end gives him a bit more punch in combat

for the same cost as 10 reivers i can build a unit of 7 vanguards, 

sergeant with hammer and 6 dudes with claw, 2 with storm shields..

[Riddlesworth]

Suppressors technically aren't Phobos, but the aesthetic fits and as you can only get them with the start collecting box, it's an easy stretch. They fill a gap in the Phobos line with long range mid strength shooting

 

I do feel that Raven Guard is far from the best fit mechanically for the phobos army though. Mandragola mentions the army having no teeth once the invictors are gone and they're not wrong.

 

Things that help:

- playing blood angels. The chapter tactic is super strong, and with comms array, las fusil eliminators and maybe suppressors, you have a decent shooting base

- a white scars successor. You have limited assault weapons, so mix and match traits as appropriate. What's important here is on turn 3, after your invictors are probably dead, the rest of your army is D2 base in combat. Incursors with 3 attacks at -2 ap D2 is very nice. Its also one of a handful of ways that makes reivers remotely decent, trading a pip of AP for an extra attack compared to incursors.

[Dracos]

If you want to kit your Reiver Lt as your Warlord into a mini-beatstick, I suggest maybe ... 

 

 

Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: Master of Ambush, Oppressor's End, Stratagem: Master of the Trifold Path, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord

 

 

There are arguably better second WT for the army but as a straight killer thus guy starts offing T5 characters pretty easy.

 

As far as Phobos characters go I think if you have Shrike, you should go Phobos Librarian as a second HQ choice. More utility imo.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Dracos

[greatcrusade08]

 

If you want to kit your Reiver Lt as your Warlord into a mini-beatstick, I suggest maybe ... 

 

 

Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: Master of Ambush, Oppressor's End, Stratagem: Master of the Trifold Path, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord

 

 

There are arguably better second WT for the army but as a straight killer thus guy starts offing T5 characters pretty easy.

 

As far as Phobos characters go I think if you have Shrike, you should go Phobos Librarian as a second HQ choice. More utility imo.

 

 

i was  going to run all three tbh, thanks for the ideas on kitting out reiver though, all appreciated

 

 

Suppressors technically aren't Phobos, but the aesthetic fits and as you can only get them with the start collecting box, it's an easy stretch. They fill a gap in the Phobos line with long range mid strength shooting

 

I do feel that Raven Guard is far from the best fit mechanically for the phobos army though. Mandragola mentions the army having no teeth once the invictors are gone and they're not wrong.

 

Things that help:

- playing blood angels. The chapter tactic is super strong, and with comms array, las fusil eliminators and maybe suppressors, you have a decent shooting base

- a white scars successor. You have limited assault weapons, so mix and match traits as appropriate. What's important here is on turn 3, after your invictors are probably dead, the rest of your army is D2 base in combat. Incursors with 3 attacks at -2 ap D2 is very nice. Its also one of a handful of ways that makes reivers remotely decent, trading a pip of AP for an extra attack compared to incursors.

 

Thanks Riddlesworth, there are multiple ways to run my phobos list, BA was my first choice before the new edition dropped, i wanna stick it out with RG to start with, see how i get on

[greatcrusade08]

hey guys.

Bit of a confession, ive decided not to continue on as raven guard, my long time love affair with ultramar has kicked in recently and ive decided to give in and head up brokeback mountain with papa smurf.

ill be starting up a thread on the UM board, id really love for you guys to comment further there.

I realise UM doesnt give a huge amount to phobos armies, but the fall back and shoot idea is very thematic.

 

part of the reason for the move, is ive a second 'regular' primaris army planned s a co-project with my son and we(I) chose UM, makes sense to roll everything together.

[duz_]

Smells like alpha legion treachery!

 

Good luck with the project the nice thing about blue is works well with zenithal highlighting

[Shadow Captain Vyper]