Mortis

[b1soul]

On Oll's memory:

 

‘You’ve lived a long time, John, but not long enough,’ said Oll. ‘After a while you forget, and then you forget what you have forgotten. You remember some things and they seem clear, but then you wonder if you are remembering what happened or the story that you told yourself.’

 

It definitely is faulty.

[Just123456]

 

 

 

 

 

The memories of the Perpetuals are real. Overwhelming evidence.

I talked to Graham Mcneill and another author about the Perpetuals on their internet pages. They basically said the memories are real.

 

Memory is incredibly fallible. Try remembering the details of a day from two weeks ago. From last year. From 10 years ago.

Steven ericson has memory and it's unreliability be core theme of the malazan series. There's ancient gods and demi gods, but their recollection of events that drive their current motivations thousands of years forward is...nebulous. As of course it would be.

As the spoilers for Mortis show, Oll Persson meets Theseus while time traveling and Theseus was his old friend. And memory is not that faulty.

It is faulty. Details vanish and get conflated over time; multiply that effect by 50000 years. I'm not really going to go any further because you're unequivocally wrong.

The more impactful an event is, the easier and more you will remember. What you said depends on the importance of the events.

You are clearly wrong about Oll Persson's memories.

Man you just don't even understand what I'm saying. Memories are real, but that doesn't mean they're accurate or true; there's a reason why eye witnesses need supporting evidence in court.

Impactful events can warp memories. Sleep deprivation and mental health damages them.

Not very often. Oll Persson's memories are not faulty to the point he hallucinates being one of Jason's Argonauts and everything else in his life.

 

There is more than one reason eye witnesses have to get that.

 

Koja Zu is unreliable.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Just123456

[Just123456]

 

 

well, all the authors only do things with GW approval as far as publishing goes. that's kinda the deal.

but aaron has admitted to going a little over the line on public forums before and getting into hot water with the gw powers that be.

feel free to post the relevant quotes from mcneill and others, i think it'd be interesting for all of us. beyond that though, not all authors agree. that's just how things work.

 

Can you prove Aaron said that? And Aaron has been in fluff meetings with all the authors for the Horus Heresy, so he is reliable.

hmmm, no i can't. i did have a browse over his posts here and on reddit as well as his blog, but i couldn't find what i recall him saying. then again adb has said a lot over the years. to be clear, adb wasn't saying he got asked to tone it down online for breaking any NDAs but for being perhaps too open about his opinions (it might have been the spurrier/zso sahaal stuff. big stress on the word "might")

 

unless someone else here can identify or find the quote from adb, we may have to chalk it up @skimaskmohawk's excellent point on the fallibility of memory.

 

though it sounds like your recent discussions with mcneill and the other authors are more recent so the quotes should be more readily on hand? looking forward to reading them.

 

 

Did you pay attention to the post I replied to?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Just123456

[mc warhammer]

 

 

 

well, all the authors only do things with GW approval as far as publishing goes. that's kinda the deal.

but aaron has admitted to going a little over the line on public forums before and getting into hot water with the gw powers that be.

feel free to post the relevant quotes from mcneill and others, i think it'd be interesting for all of us. beyond that though, not all authors agree. that's just how things work.

Can you prove Aaron said that? And Aaron has been in fluff meetings with all the authors for the Horus Heresy, so he is reliable.

hmmm, no i can't. i did have a browse over his posts here and on reddit as well as his blog, but i couldn't find what i recall him saying. then again adb has said a lot over the years. to be clear, adb wasn't saying he got asked to tone it down online for breaking any NDAs but for being perhaps too open about his opinions (it might have been the spurrier/zso sahaal stuff. big stress on the word "might")

 

unless someone else here can identify or find the quote from adb, we may have to chalk it up @skimaskmohawk's excellent point on the fallibility of memory.

 

though it sounds like your recent discussions with mcneill and the other authors are more recent so the quotes should be more readily on hand? looking forward to reading them.

 

 

You do know I was talking about the memories of the Perpetuals being real in the sense that they are not devices from the DAOT? We have evidence they are not.

 

i do.

 

but you also denied the possibility that an idea was "bounced around outside of print", which is something i don't know if anyone who isn't one of the authors can actually deny or confirm. that was the only thing i took issue with. the discussion of oll's memories is interesting in and of itself, but i don't have a particularly strong opinion on it either way. oll's memories may be more or less accurate or they may be a mix of fabrications (yes, even "hallucinating" memories that never occurred. it's a thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome).

 

memory is gonna be a bit weird and complex in the oldest living human being

 

looking forward to those links of your discussion on this topic with the authors. or you could just post quotes here. i think it'd be great to add to the discussion.

[1ncarnadine]

Can you prove Aaron said that? And Aaron has been in fluff meetings with all the authors for the Horus Heresy, so he is reliable.

 

Buddy, the reason I didn't reply to you before, is that you said Aaron said something, and when I looked up the post to see for myself, I realized he likely meant no such thing. Yet you consistently ask people to "prove" every statement, without doing so yourself when challenged. I didn't believe you were here in good faith so I didn't consider you worth my time, and every post I've seen from you has validated that stance. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. You're asking for burden of proof as if this forum is a court of law, but it's a damn public forum discussing IP fiction. Sources can certainly help prove a point, sure, but what you've been doing is challenging everyone's claims without providing sources of your own, and it comes across as insincere and disrespectful. And the points you are trying to make are absolutist in regards to IP fiction, which... ok, bear with me, I'll get at that below.

 

 

The DAOT notion is from a character who was executed for stealing water.

 

The weapon out of its box from the DAoT theory is from Alan Bligh, and I'm pretty confident it was ADB, on these forums or elsewhere, who vectored the idea to us ahead of his book. ADB included it in MoM as an homage to his friend. I'm fairly confident it was ADB here, but like mc warhammer, I could not readily find a source, though if I had the time I might be able to. If you or any reader really wants to challenge themselves and go on a deep dive, try a forum search for user "A D-B" between 2014-2015 and just start reading. It's a lot of time that I don't have, but it might be there. It might not.* But it's probably still an interesting look at what's changed and what hasn't.

 

Otherwise, it could have been mentioned in person by Alan Bligh to fans at events, or maybe elsewhere somehow. I don't really want to get into that, though. I didn't have many opportunities to meet Alan Bligh in person, and of the few times I did have a chance, I was fairly drunk for at least one of them. But those interactions with Alan had a huge impact on how I view media, and personally, it feels morbid to try to find quotes relating to a dead man whose memory I try to respect (and I'm probably failing, right now), nor does it feel great to say "Alan Bligh said this thing but he's dead now so you can't check with him." It feels vile.

 

*And there is a real chance my memory is simply wrong. I was at the 2016 Weekender when MoM released, so I could have heard it there just before I read the book, though IIRC, it was also the ebook finale of the 2015 BL advent calendar, so I may have read it before that event? It's been a while! I started two businesses within two months of that weekender, and then more recently ended up a caregiver in a pandemic for a full year of social distancing, so it feels like an eternity ago now. I may have crossed some wires. It's happened before.

 

Another thought: I do know there is an internal "answer" to what's going on around the Emperor. Dan Abnett said as much in a recent arstechnica interview video. But even if there is a current internal answer to keep the story consistent as they work across 6 authors and 8 novels, that internal answer can itself change over time. It's not static. More stories could be set in and around the siege in the future that change our understanding even further, and those could deliberately re-muddy the waters. And Dan himself was clear that they endeavor to hide that internal answer so that we can still creatively interpret our escapist fiction.

 

That's the thing. There's nothing to prove in this IP fiction! Some reads are more likely and less likely given a text, but there is no actual, final, eternal truth or answer to most things with the way GW handles its IP. It is all made up, and new things can be made up at any time. I personally tend to see it as a range of probabilities, where the Emperor/Perpetual deep time take is the most likely, but I still look for other likelihoods. I love exploring things like the Rashomon effect, and how perception changes interpretation. That's why I'm here, on the B&C, reading all your takes! It's fascinating. But sometimes, especially the way this thread has been going, it's just exhausting to try to interact at all.

 

I've also been trying to better respect my own time by not typing up a wall of text to what is often just bait, only to see my efforts disregarded with a single, dismissive sentence or two. So I'm not doing as great there...

 

 

The Perpetuals are not from the DAOT.

I do not understand why that theory offends your sensibilities so much, or why you feel a burning need to tell me at every opportunity that it can't possibly work in this highly flexible IP.

Edited May 14, 2021 by LetsYouDown

[Just123456]

 

Can you prove Aaron said that? And Aaron has been in fluff meetings with all the authors for the Horus Heresy, so he is reliable.

 

Buddy, the reason I didn't reply to you before, is that you said Aaron said something, and when I looked up the post to see for myself, I realized he likely meant no such thing. Yet you consistently ask people to "prove" every statement, without doing so yourself when challenged. I didn't believe you were here in good faith so I didn't consider you worth my time, and every post I've seen from you has validated that stance. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. You're asking for burden of proof as if this forum is a court of law, but it's a damn public forum discussing IP fiction. Sources can certainly help prove a point, sure, but what you've been doing is challenging everyone's claims without providing sources of your own, and it comes across as insincere and disrespectful. And the points you are trying to make are absolutist in regards to IP fiction, which... ok, bear with me, I'll get at that below.

 

The DAOT notion is from a character who was executed for stealing water.

 

The weapon out of its box from the DAoT theory is from Alan Bligh, and I'm pretty confident it was ADB, on these forums or elsewhere, who vectored the idea to us ahead of his book. ADB included it in MoM as an homage to his friend. I'm fairly confident it was ADB here, but like mc warhammer, I could not readily find a source, though if I had the time I might be able to. If you or any reader really wants to challenge themselves and go on a deep dive, try a forum search for user "A D-B" between 2014-2015 and just start reading. It's a lot of time that I don't have, but it might be there. It might not.* But it's probably still an interesting look at what's changed and what hasn't.

Otherwise, it could have been mentioned in person by Alan Bligh to fans at events, or maybe elsewhere somehow. I don't really want to get into that, though. I didn't have many opportunities to meet Alan Bligh in person, and of the few times I did have a chance, I was fairly drunk for at least one of them. But those interactions with Alan had a huge impact on how I view media, and personally, it feels morbid to try to find quotes relating to a dead man whose memory I try to respect (and I'm probably failing, right now), nor does it feel great to say "Alan Bligh said this thing but he's dead now so you can't check with him." It feels vile.

*And there is a real chance my memory is simply wrong. I was at the 2016 Weekender when MoM released, so I could have heard it there just before I read the book, though IIRC, it was also the ebook finale of the 2015 BL advent calendar, so I may have read it before that event? It's been a while! I started two businesses that year and then more recently ended up a caregiver in a pandemic for a full year of social distancing, so it feels like an eternity ago now. I may have crossed some wires. It's happened before.

Another thought: I do know there is an internal "answer" to what's going on around the Emperor. Dan Abnett said as much in a recent arstechnica interview video. But even if there is a current internal answer to keep the story consistent as they work across 6 authors and 8 novels, that internal answer can itself change over time. It's not static. More stories could be set in and around the siege in the future that change our understanding even further, and those could deliberately re-muddy the waters. And Dan himself was clear that they endeavor to hide that internal answer so that we can still creatively interpret our escapist fiction.

That's the thing. There's nothing to prove in this IP fiction! Some reads are more likely and less likely given a text, but there is no actual, final, eternal truth or answer to most things with the way GW handles its IP. It is all made up, and new things can be made up at any time. I personally tend to see it as a range of probabilities, where the Emperor/Perpetual deep time take is the most likely, but I still look for other likelihoods. I love exploring things like the Rashomon effect, and how perception changes interpretation. That's why I'm here, on the B&C, reading all your takes! It's fascinating. But sometimes, especially the way this thread has been going, it's just exhausting to try to interact at all.

I've also been trying to better respect my own time by not typing up a wall of text to what is often just bait, only to see my efforts disregarded with a single, dismissive sentence or two. So I'm not doing as great there...

 

 

The Perpetuals are not from the DAOT.

 

I do not understand why that theory offends your sensibilities so much, or why you feel a burning need to tell me at every opportunity that it can't possibly work in this highly flexible IP.

He was fond of the notion. He did not view as a legit suggestion.

 

I am sorry for coming off as angry.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Just123456

[Just123456]

Below is where he said it. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

And what Graham Mcneill said. 

 

https://i.imgur.com/YVdDCyx.png

 

I am sorry for being a bit of a jerk. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Just123456

[Roomsky]

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

[Just123456]

I was reading Mortis and I was fond of it. Though the parts with Oll Persson were different from the ordinary Warhammer.

[Just123456]

 

Can you prove Aaron said that? And Aaron has been in fluff meetings with all the authors for the Horus Heresy, so he is reliable.

 

 

Buddy, the reason I didn't reply to you before, is that you said Aaron said something, and when I looked up the post to see for myself, I realized he likely meant no such thing. Yet you consistently ask people to "prove" every statement, without doing so yourself when challenged. I didn't believe you were here in good faith so I didn't consider you worth my time, and every post I've seen from you has validated that stance. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. You're asking for burden of proof as if this forum is a court of law, but it's a damn public forum discussing IP fiction. Sources can certainly help prove a point, sure, but what you've been doing is challenging everyone's claims without providing sources of your own, and it comes across as insincere and disrespectful. And the points you are trying to make are absolutist in regards to IP fiction, which... ok, bear with me, I'll get at that below.

 

The DAOT notion is from a character who was executed for stealing water.

 

 

The weapon out of its box from the DAoT theory is from Alan Bligh, and I'm pretty confident it was ADB, on these forums or elsewhere, who vectored the idea to us ahead of his book. ADB included it in MoM as an homage to his friend. I'm fairly confident it was ADB here, but like mc warhammer, I could not readily find a source, though if I had the time I might be able to. If you or any reader really wants to challenge themselves and go on a deep dive, try a forum search for user "A D-B" between 2014-2015 and just start reading. It's a lot of time that I don't have, but it might be there. It might not.* But it's probably still an interesting look at what's changed and what hasn't.

Otherwise, it could have been mentioned in person by Alan Bligh to fans at events, or maybe elsewhere somehow. I don't really want to get into that, though. I didn't have many opportunities to meet Alan Bligh in person, and of the few times I did have a chance, I was fairly drunk for at least one of them. But those interactions with Alan had a huge impact on how I view media, and personally, it feels morbid to try to find quotes relating to a dead man whose memory I try to respect (and I'm probably failing, right now), nor does it feel great to say "Alan Bligh said this thing but he's dead now so you can't check with him." It feels vile.

*And there is a real chance my memory is simply wrong. I was at the 2016 Weekender when MoM released, so I could have heard it there just before I read the book, though IIRC, it was also the ebook finale of the 2015 BL advent calendar, so I may have read it before that event? It's been a while! I started two businesses within two months of that weekender, and then more recently ended up a caregiver in a pandemic for a full year of social distancing, so it feels like an eternity ago now. I may have crossed some wires. It's happened before.

Another thought: I do know there is an internal "answer" to what's going on around the Emperor. Dan Abnett said as much in a recent arstechnica interview video. But even if there is a current internal answer to keep the story consistent as they work across 6 authors and 8 novels, that internal answer can itself change over time. It's not static. More stories could be set in and around the siege in the future that change our understanding even further, and those could deliberately re-muddy the waters. And Dan himself was clear that they endeavor to hide that internal answer so that we can still creatively interpret our escapist fiction.

That's the thing. There's nothing to prove in this IP fiction! Some reads are more likely and less likely given a text, but there is no actual, final, eternal truth or answer to most things with the way GW handles its IP. It is all made up, and new things can be made up at any time. I personally tend to see it as a range of probabilities, where the Emperor/Perpetual deep time take is the most likely, but I still look for other likelihoods. I love exploring things like the Rashomon effect, and how perception changes interpretation. That's why I'm here, on the B&C, reading all your takes! It's fascinating. But sometimes, especially the way this thread has been going, it's just exhausting to try to interact at all.

I've also been trying to better respect my own time by not typing up a wall of text to what is often just bait, only to see my efforts disregarded with a single, dismissive sentence or two. So I'm not doing as great there...

 

 

The Perpetuals are not from the DAOT.

 

I do not understand why that theory offends your sensibilities so much, or why you feel a burning need to tell me at every opportunity that it can't possibly work in this highly flexible IP.

I should have said it's very unlikely, though not completely silly. And since the whole setting runs on unreliable narrators, people are free to make their version of Warhammer.

[mc warhammer]

Below is where he said it.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

And what Graham Mcneill said.

 

https://i.imgur.com/YVdDCyx.png

 

I am sorry for being a bit of a jerk.

thanks for that mate, i'm unclear which part of what McNeil says pertains to oll's memories but i appreciate you posting it

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

uhm...not me

 

point taken, i'll resume my lurking until i can contribute on topic ha

[1ncarnadine]

Below is where he said it. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Well that's fair enough! Dang. I guess I have to disagree with ADB I'm still going to reserve a special place in my heart for the "weapon left out of its box" idea.

 

You do not come off as angry to me, to be fair. Maybe a bit stubborn, but lots of us are. That you're willing to apologize at all means I probably badly misread you, and you deserve an apology for that in turn. I'm sorry for judging you too harshly.

 

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

Yeah man, I loved it. I agreed with most of what came up in your review a few pages back. I meant to respond but was, uh, distracted, by the last few pages. I will submit my reading notes for perusal... which only really illustrate my strange, galaxy brain reading priorities, if anything:

 

p. 125 - “What else remains to us if we leave our swords sheathed, and deeds undone for the lack of hope?” Corswain’s getting some decent lines



 

p. 135 - Mortis’s crypt-ship intro is fantastic

 

p. 146 - Distance to Wall counter to keep the reader aware of the stakes. Starts at 150km ~ 93.2 miles. The width of the Himalayas themselves is between 350 & 150km, and the range is ~2400km (1500mi) long. In comparison, the state of Connecticut is about 110x70 mi (177x113km), which might be a close comparison to the size of the extremes of the Mercury-Exultant killing field.

 

p. 161 - John French is not letting the missile Reaver concept die. Excellent.



 

p. 172 - Legio Amaranth seems like an Alan Bligh reference? His blog was Amanarth Ink IIRC, and he loved to use that word wherever he could


 

p. 201 - more distances: 120km to the horizon line



 

p. 274 - yes excellent; I love me some First Legion factionalism



 

p. 288 - Solaria gyre kill hunt pattern is also a direct reference to their AT rules with 4-hound squadrons. Neat

 



p. 292 - Carnifector Noctis is the Solaria Warlord color plate in the Titandeath supplement. Actually, that’s Carnificor Noctis? But it’s probably meant to be the same engine.



 

p. 301 - “Clutches of Knights in the colors of old bone and iron paced at their side.” - sounds like Malinax is still hanging with Mortis. Appreciate the glimpse into the Mortis “gift” spectrum on the Warhound from the same page.



 

p. 302 - damn if only Warp Missiles were this cool in AT18



 

p. 305 - Warmonger & Imperator confirmed to still be Emperor sub-classes, I guess



 

p. 317 - I love the description of how it feels to have Mortarion just drift overhead in the distance



 

p. 356 - yes this, pump this more of this straight into my veins



 

p. 360 - interesting view of how Horus perceives himself at this moment
 


 

p. 389 - the Emperor’s Children have turned the Hollow Mountain into a discotheque mega-rave



 

p. 399 - I was just thinking that the Corswain beast memories were getting annoying, but going off this section, it now seems that he was being affected by the dream even from space, tugging at the weariness it could find in his soul. Also, sixfold angel-winged chorus daemon sounds like an amazing modeling idea.

 

p. 418 - mention of a Reaver under the Ordo Sinister, so it does seem they’re going to expand its size and role. Psi-Titans make bank, apparently.

 I wonder how that might manifest in the game? They could be non-psychic support Titans that are still crewed by blanks or something, but I kind of want to see what a blank-faced Psi-Reaver looks like.

 

p. 423 - Legio Ingivilata formed at Terra, so it didn’t exist before this on Voss? Did Voss have a Titan Legion before Invigilata, & if so was it destroyed, turned traitor, or both? This also implies many Titan Legions in 40k must be mostly or wholly reconstituted, though there’s a possibility Invigilata loaned engines back out in turn, or that it’s a temporary name here that is enshrined on Voss later.



 

p. 425 - 57km, when the width of their deployment had been 50 earlier. Ignatum’s losing a lot of ground.



 

p. 455 - I demand these rad-impellers in AT18

 



p. 470 - sort of an awkward introduction for the Warmaster Titan, here, as one lump instead of as a “they were here the whole time” approach that I would have expected. French is trying to establish a pattern with the term "Warmaster" in relation to "Emperor." As with Ollanius as the “first Warmaster,” these machines exist to cast down Emperors and their works. 24km remaining, <15 miles.



 


p. 479 - the Emperor’s Children have apparently been having a massive contest to see how many tubes, feeds and chromed sonic weapons they can run off one Legionary… dudes with swords or whips or whatever all died on the Saturnine Wall or gave them up to win this sweet contest.

 

I didn't have that many notes, actually. Mostly just things I wanted to be able to cite later, if ever. I can't honestly say I disagree with some of the criticisms of this novel, but, as I did say in my previous post... I was effectively locked up for a year in the US as a private caregiver for my father. So the theme of grinding siege despair resonated a lot with me, and the afterword was really affecting.

 

And on a personal level, I hadn't been reading through a lot of the pandemic. My daily routine became such a depressing grind that I had stopped being intellectually curious, and Mortis kick-started me into burning through it, Fury of Magnus, Penitent, Valdor, Alpharius, and some non-GW stuff, including some Cormac McCarthy that I'd been struggling with. So my read was more personal, its place in my life somewhat significant, and some of the negative reviews here did make me take a step back and wonder if I was just really out of touch or something. It gave me pause, and made me feel estranged. But yeah, I liked Mortis a lot actually, all things considered, and now I've had more time to reflect on it.

[Just123456]

 

Below is where he said it.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

Well that's fair enough! Dang. I guess I have to disagree with ADB :teehee: I'm still going to reserve a special place in my heart for the "weapon left out of its box" idea.

You do not come off as angry to me, to be fair. Maybe a bit stubborn, but lots of us are. That you're willing to apologize at all means I probably badly misread you, and you deserve an apology for that in turn. I'm sorry for judging you too harshly.

 

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

 

Yeah man, I loved it. I agreed with most of what came up in your review a few pages back. I meant to respond but was, uh, distracted, by the last few pages. I will submit my reading notes for perusal... which only really illustrate my strange, galaxy brain reading priorities, if anything:

p. 125 - “What else remains to us if we leave our swords sheathed, and deeds undone for the lack of hope?” Corswain’s getting some decent lines



p. 135 - Mortis’s crypt-ship intro is fantastic

p. 146 - Distance to Wall counter to keep the reader aware of the stakes. Starts at 150km ~ 93.2 miles. The width of the Himalayas themselves is between 350 & 150km, and the range is ~2400km (1500mi) long. In comparison, the state of Connecticut is about 110x70 mi (177x113km), which might be a close comparison to the size of the extremes of the Mercury-Exultant killing field.

p. 161 - John French is not letting the missile Reaver concept die. Excellent.



p. 172 - Legio Amaranth seems like an Alan Bligh reference? His blog was Amanarth Ink IIRC, and he loved to use that word wherever he could


p. 201 - more distances: 120km to the horizon line



p. 274 - yes excellent; I love me some First Legion factionalism



p. 288 - Solaria gyre kill hunt pattern is also a direct reference to their AT rules with 4-hound squadrons. Neat



p. 292 - Carnifector Noctis is the Solaria Warlord color plate in the Titandeath supplement. Actually, that’s Carnificor Noctis? But it’s probably meant to be the same engine.



p. 301 - “Clutches of Knights in the colors of old bone and iron paced at their side.” - sounds like Malinax is still hanging with Mortis. Appreciate the glimpse into the Mortis “gift” spectrum on the Warhound from the same page.



p. 302 - damn if only Warp Missiles were this cool in AT18



p. 305 - Warmonger & Imperator confirmed to still be Emperor sub-classes, I guess



p. 317 - I love the description of how it feels to have Mortarion just drift overhead in the distance



p. 356 - yes this, pump this more of this :cuss straight into my veins



p. 360 - interesting view of how Horus perceives himself at this moment
 


p. 389 - the Emperor’s Children have turned the Hollow Mountain into a discotheque mega-rave



p. 399 - I was just thinking that the Corswain beast memories were getting annoying, but going off this section, it now seems that he was being affected by the dream even from space, tugging at the weariness it could find in his soul. Also, sixfold angel-winged chorus daemon sounds like an amazing modeling idea.

p. 418 - mention of a Reaver under the Ordo Sinister, so it does seem they’re going to expand its size and role. Psi-Titans make bank, apparently.

 I wonder how that might manifest in the game? They could be non-psychic support Titans that are still crewed by blanks or something, but I kind of want to see what a blank-faced Psi-Reaver looks like.

p. 423 - Legio Ingivilata formed at Terra, so it didn’t exist before this on Voss? Did Voss have a Titan Legion before Invigilata, & if so was it destroyed, turned traitor, or both? This also implies many Titan Legions in 40k must be mostly or wholly reconstituted, though there’s a possibility Invigilata loaned engines back out in turn, or that it’s a temporary name here that is enshrined on Voss later.



p. 425 - 57km, when the width of their deployment had been 50 earlier. Ignatum’s losing a lot of ground.



p. 455 - I demand these rad-impellers in AT18



p. 470 - sort of an awkward introduction for the Warmaster Titan, here, as one lump instead of as a “they were here the whole time” approach that I would have expected. French is trying to establish a pattern with the term "Warmaster" in relation to "Emperor." As with Ollanius as the “first Warmaster,” these machines exist to cast down Emperors and their works. 24km remaining, <15 miles.




p. 479 - the Emperor’s Children have apparently been having a massive contest to see how many tubes, feeds and chromed sonic weapons they can run off one Legionary… dudes with swords or whips or whatever all died on the Saturnine Wall or gave them up to win this sweet contest.

I didn't have that many notes, actually. Mostly just things I wanted to be able to cite later, if ever. I can't honestly say I disagree with some of the criticisms of this novel, but, as I did say in my previous post... I was effectively locked up for a year in the US as a private caregiver for my father. So the theme of grinding siege despair resonated a lot with me, and the afterword was really affecting.

And on a personal level, I hadn't been reading through a lot of the pandemic. My daily routine became such a depressing grind that I had stopped being intellectually curious, and Mortis kick-started me into burning through it, Fury of Magnus, Penitent, Valdor, Alpharius, and some non-GW stuff, including some Cormac McCarthy that I'd been struggling with. So my read was more personal, its place in my life somewhat significant, and some of the negative reviews here did make me take a step back and wonder if I was just really out of touch or something. It gave me pause, and made me feel estranged. But yeah, I liked Mortis a lot actually, all things considered, and now I've had more time to reflect on it.

And did you get my latest post to you? Edited May 14, 2021 by Just123456

[1ncarnadine]

And did you get my latest post to you?

I got you.

[Roomsky]

 

Good Stuff.

 

 

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it - sucks to hear about your circumstances though. Best wishes.

 

I do sometimes wonder if it's a full-on disposition or simply a series of experiences that makes a reader either engage or check out when a book is as drawn out and depressing as possible. It certainly sounds like a negative but damn if it doesn't hit for me. I've been reading R. Scott Bakker's books on the side and the sheer depths his series goes to in creating a vibe of such sadistic emptiness is paradoxically extremely compelling.

 

Anywho, I foresee this being the most divisive Siege book by the end, even if Abnett does pull some ill-advised twist, but I'm supremely thankful French got to write it.

 

And much as I'm trying to tone down my author sniping these days, the thought of Haley handling Pert's departure after Lost and the Damned makes me feel like we dodged a bullet.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Roomsky

[Scribe]

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

 

I'm going to grab it so I have something to be mad about this weekend beyond my normal things. ;)

[Fire Golem]

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

 

I'm going to grab it so I have something to be mad about this weekend beyond my normal things.

 

Great... ;)

[Marshal Loss]

 

the thought of Haley handling Pert's departure after Lost and the Damned makes me feel like we dodged a bullet.

 

Bring on French's take on the Iron Cage.

[DarkApostle7]

 

Bring on French's take on the Iron Cage.

 

 

It'll be interesting to see how he handles Pert leaving the siege, due to the war unbecoming 'a legion war' - with his hate for the chaos powers - and his ascension into a Daemon Prince after the Cage

[Tymell]

 

 

Bring on French's take on the Iron Cage.

 

 

It'll be interesting to see how he handles Pert leaving the siege, due to the war unbecoming 'a legion war' - with his hate for the chaos powers - and his ascension into a Daemon Prince after the Cage

 

 

My impression (and it could just be my own projection of it and nothing more) is that Perturabo doesn't despise the powers of Chaos totally, and isn't opposed to utilising them as a weapon, but at this point in the Siege he feels they're gaining too much prominence, that Horus is under their control rather than the other way around (and that he, Perturabo, has just exchanged one mad tyrant for another). So I could see him utilising such powers more if he feels (however mistakenly) that he's in charge and just using such things for his own goals. And, of course, he could always just be hypocritical or self-delusional in that regard.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Tymell

[DarkApostle7]

 

 

*snip

 

My impression (and it could just be my own projection of it and nothing more) is that Perturabo doesn't despise the powers of Chaos totally, and isn't opposed to utilising them as a weapon, but at this point in the Siege he feels they're gaining too much prominence, that Horus is under their control rather than the other way around (and that he, Perturabo, has just exchanged one mad tyrant for another). So I could see him utilising such powers more if he feels (however mistakenly) that he's in charge and just using such things for his own goals. And, of course, he could always just be hypocritical or self-delusional in that regard.

 

 

That does make sense, especially in relation to using Chaos as a weapon to defeat Dorn. Could also relate to how Abaddon felt in Saturnine, with Perturabo wishing to defeat Dorn with more traditional means, Daemons and Chaos warp-magics turning this victory hollow in his eyes at the Siege and could explain his leaving in Mortis

 

Still interested in why Pert decides to become a Daemon Prince - especially if he's undivided or not - as this is implied to happen after the Cage through the sacrifice of the Fist's gene-seed

 

As of yet I feel the books have him echo Abaddon's sentiment of using Chaos as a means to an end, not submitting his soul to it

[Osteoclast]

 

 

 

 

 

*snip

My impression (and it could just be my own projection of it and nothing more) is that Perturabo doesn't despise the powers of Chaos totally, and isn't opposed to utilising them as a weapon, but at this point in the Siege he feels they're gaining too much prominence, that Horus is under their control rather than the other way around (and that he, Perturabo, has just exchanged one mad tyrant for another). So I could see him utilising such powers more if he feels (however mistakenly) that he's in charge and just using such things for his own goals. And, of course, he could always just be hypocritical or self-delusional in that regard.

That does make sense, especially in relation to using Chaos as a weapon to defeat Dorn. Could also relate to how Abaddon felt in Saturnine, with Perturabo wishing to defeat Dorn with more traditional means, Daemons and Chaos warp-magics turning this victory hollow in his eyes at the Siege and could explain his leaving in Mortis

 

Still interested in why Pert decides to become a Daemon Prince - especially if he's undivided or not - as this is implied to happen after the Cage through the sacrifice of the Fist's gene-seed

 

As of yet I feel the books have him echo Abaddon's sentiment of using Chaos as a means to an end, not submitting his soul to it

Easy answer is that it’s the only way left for him to remain alive. He’s already perpetually “leaking” for lack of a better term thanks to Fulgrim and Slaves to Darkness gave me the impression that he’ll sorta merge with that one unbound daemon in it for how he ascends to Chaos Undivided. That also lets them set up the Iron Cage as a “Just as planned” loss for the Iron Warriors where he is sacrificing his sons to capture the gene seed necessary to ascend and prevent his death (Dorn being either unaware that Perturabo is dying or following a self-fulfilling prophecy that he will stave off his death and ascend to daemonhood by means of a ritual conducted there; the meat grinder is then in large part due to time constraints to prevent said ritual forcing their hand).

[Brother Lunkhead]

=][=

 

These tangential subjects are all very interesting, but they are just that.... tangential. If anyone is keen on a detailed discussion in these or other tangential subjects, you are welcome to start a new thread here or in AMICUS (all depending on if you want to stretch the subject beyond the realm of BL literature).... or, if that's too much work, you can just let it go

 

As usual, if you have any concerns or questions, feel free to PM me. I am at your service (I really am).

 

=][=

[bluntblade]

Am enjoying this book so far. It's not great, the scope is maybe just a little too broad and I don't know if French's finesse is quite at his usual level, there's some really good, vivid stuff here.

[Scribe]

270 pages in, I'm enjoying it. So far it's hitting all the right notes for me.