Mortis

[mc warhammer]

 

Was there...something...in the quoted post from Roomsky implying he didn't know about the argonaut thingamy? Am I missing it?

 

I'm like nagashee in this instance; if it's not particularly interesting to me I'll tend to gloss over or forget it. If it weren't for this thread I'd be blissfully unaware of Ol's questing for wool.

 

 

You can find Oll Persson being one of Jason's Argonauts on Lexicanum. People often bring up Oll Persson being one of Jason's Argonauts to show he is Christian even though he was around before Christ.

 

Not doubting that, I just don't know if Roomsky ever doubted it?

[Just123456]

 

 

Was there...something...in the quoted post from Roomsky implying he didn't know about the argonaut thingamy? Am I missing it?

 

I'm like nagashee in this instance; if it's not particularly interesting to me I'll tend to gloss over or forget it. If it weren't for this thread I'd be blissfully unaware of Ol's questing for wool.

 

You can find Oll Persson being one of Jason's Argonauts on Lexicanum. People often bring up Oll Persson being one of Jason's Argonauts to show he is Christian even though he was around before Christ.

Not doubting that, I just don't know if Roomsky ever doubted it?

That is what it appeared to be with what I said and him sending me a rating.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Just123456

[Roomsky]

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

How come you did not know Oll Persson was one of Jason's Argonauts in older books? That is a basic fact when it concerns the Perpetuals.

 

 

What a strange question.

 

I found it annoying because in Know no Fear it was just an allusion to something we, the reader were familiar with. Travelling with Jason and his Argonauts did not necessarily mean that the story went as it had in contemporary tellings of that myth, or that all Greek myths were true. Now we have confirmation that a whole bunch of :cuss totally, actually existed and happened. All that was confirmed before is that Jason had his Argonauts, and Oll was among them. It did not confirm the myth of Theseus, or the minotaur, etc.

 

I always liked to imagine Oll as a bloke who brushed up against big events here and there, rather than how supremely important he's becoming now. In Know no Fear it was up to the reader how significant Oll's history was. Now we're confirming myths and putting him front and centre of all sorts of things and I find it irritating.

[Scribe]

 

 

I always liked to imagine Oll as a bloke who brushed up against big events here and there, rather than how supremely important he's becoming now. In Know no Fear it was up to the reader how significant Oll's history was. Now we're confirming myths and putting him front and centre of all sorts of things and I find it irritating.

 

 

At least French has now tied Oll into the main story that actually matters. One of the big positives in Mortis.

[grailkeeper]

I'm now about two thirds of the way through and it is growing on me.

[Just123456]

 

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

 

How come you did not know Oll Persson was one of Jason's Argonauts in older books? That is a basic fact when it concerns the Perpetuals.

What a strange question.

 

I found it annoying because in Know no Fear it was just an allusion to something we, the reader were familiar with. Travelling with Jason and his Argonauts did not necessarily mean that the story went as it had in contemporary tellings of that myth, or that all Greek myths were true. Now we have confirmation that a whole bunch of :cuss totally, actually existed and happened. All that was confirmed before is that Jason had his Argonauts, and Oll was among them. It did not confirm the myth of Theseus, or the minotaur, etc.

 

I always liked to imagine Oll as a bloke who brushed up against big events here and there, rather than how supremely important he's becoming now. In Know no Fear it was up to the reader how significant Oll's history was. Now we're confirming myths and putting him front and centre of all sorts of things and I find it irritating.

Oll Persson came across the sirens with Jason's Argonauts. And he implied the sirens were warp entities. So his time with Jason's Argonauts happens roughly the way it did in the myths.

 

Have you read Mark of Calth? There are a few major lines for Oll Persson's time with Jason's Argonauts. That is where the lines for the sirens are from. The sirens were real and were warp entities.

 

Thanks for the talk

Edited June 17, 2021 by Just123456

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

 

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

How come you did not know Oll Persson was one of Jason's Argonauts in older books? That is a basic fact when it concerns the Perpetuals.

What a strange question.

 

I found it annoying because in Know no Fear it was just an allusion to something we, the reader were familiar with. Travelling with Jason and his Argonauts did not necessarily mean that the story went as it had in contemporary tellings of that myth, or that all Greek myths were true. Now we have confirmation that a whole bunch of totally, actually existed and happened. All that was confirmed before is that Jason had his Argonauts, and Oll was among them. It did not confirm the myth of Theseus, or the minotaur, etc.

 

I always liked to imagine Oll as a bloke who brushed up against big events here and there, rather than how supremely important he's becoming now. In Know no Fear it was up to the reader how significant Oll's history was. Now we're confirming myths and putting him front and centre of all sorts of things and I find it irritating.

Oll Persson came across the sirens with Jason's Argonauts. And he implied the sirens were warp entities. So his time with Jason's Argonauts happens roughly the way it did in the myths.

 

Have you read Mark of Calth? There are a few major lines for Oll Persson's time with Jason's Argonauts. That is where the lines for the sirens are from. The sirens were real and were warp entities.

 

Thanks for the talk

 

 

Serious question: did you actually read what Roomsky said? And do you not see the problem with stating that "he implied the sirens were warp entities" in one sentence and then going on to say that "the sirens were real and were warp entities" immediately afterwards? That doesn't quite meet the definition for a "basic fact", & as KnF came before MoC, his point(s) stand.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[mc warhammer]

i'm coming around to thinking that there are all sort of spectrums to understanding conversation on the internet as well as various barriers (like language etc).  something i need to remind myself to be more aware of.

 

as for the point, i agree broadly with roomsky. i preferred that our irl mythological past was ambiguous in the 40k universe, this just opens up a can of worms as to how much mythology actually happened (is "journey to the west" real in 40k too? the iliad? camelot?). i think if it has to be, then tying those myths to the warp makes a certain amount of sense, even if i'm not a huge fan of it. it can make sense, i just don't know if it was needed.

Edited June 17, 2021 by mc warhammer

[DukeLeto69]

The whole “should perpetuals have been present for real world events in history only vs present for myths and legends from our real world” is interesting.

 

Until reading the last few posts I was very much of the “perpetuals present at real historical events is cool/makes sense but lets get the balance right and have a higher proportion between 2,021AD and 30,000AD”

 

But as myths and legends are often extrapolated (and made more fantastical) from real life events AND are often allegorical to explain or preach a certain POV or moral dilemma, I can see how linking to the warp and saying “wow those myths were real afterall” is also kinda neat (if a little eye rolling).

[Just123456]

 

 

 

 

So, any of you fine people read Mortis?

It's the fifth Siege of Terra book and I really liked it. Most seem to disagree though. Thoughts?

 

How come you did not know Oll Persson was one of Jason's Argonauts in older books? That is a basic fact when it concerns the Perpetuals.

What a strange question.

I found it annoying because in Know no Fear it was just an allusion to something we, the reader were familiar with. Travelling with Jason and his Argonauts did not necessarily mean that the story went as it had in contemporary tellings of that myth, or that all Greek myths were true. Now we have confirmation that a whole bunch of :cuss totally, actually existed and happened. All that was confirmed before is that Jason had his Argonauts, and Oll was among them. It did not confirm the myth of Theseus, or the minotaur, etc.

I always liked to imagine Oll as a bloke who brushed up against big events here and there, rather than how supremely important he's becoming now. In Know no Fear it was up to the reader how significant Oll's history was. Now we're confirming myths and putting him front and centre of all sorts of things and I find it irritating.

Oll Persson came across the sirens with Jason's Argonauts. And he implied the sirens were warp entities. So his time with Jason's Argonauts happens roughly the way it did in the myths.

Have you read Mark of Calth? There are a few major lines for Oll Persson's time with Jason's Argonauts. That is where the lines for the sirens are from. The sirens were real and were warp entities.

Thanks for the talk

 

Serious question: did you actually read what Roomsky said? And do you not see the problem with stating that "he implied the sirens were warp entities" in one sentence and then going on to say that "the sirens were real and were warp entities" immediately afterwards? That doesn't quite meet the definition for a "basic fact", & as KnF came before MoC, his point(s) stand.

I did. He said Oll Persson's time with Jason's Argonauts might not have went the way it did in the myths.

 

And Oll Persson's line for the sirens makes it almost certain they were warp entities.

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 Serious question: did you actually read what Roomsky said? And do you not see the problem with stating that "he implied the sirens were warp entities" in one sentence and then going on to say that "the sirens were real and were warp entities" immediately afterwards? That doesn't quite meet the definition for a "basic fact", & as KnF came before MoC, his point(s) stand.

I did. He said Oll Persson's time with Jason's Argonauts might not have went the way it did in the myths.

 

And Oll Persson's line for the sirens makes it almost certain they were warp entities.

 

Well you should try reading it again, because that is not at all what was said. Roomsky stated that it was just an allusion at the time Know no Fear was published, and that it was the change from ambiguity to certainty - the latter being the very thing that you yourself are relentlessly defending, despite nobody questioning it - which he took issue with. If you're going to relentlessly quote people here and in AOD in an attempt to propagate your views, maybe read posts more closely, or at least clarify things first...

 

FWIW, I agree with him.

[Just123456]

 

 

Serious question: did you actually read what Roomsky said? And do you not see the problem with stating that "he implied the sirens were warp entities" in one sentence and then going on to say that "the sirens were real and were warp entities" immediately afterwards? That doesn't quite meet the definition for a "basic fact", & as KnF came before MoC, his point(s) stand.

I did. He said Oll Persson's time with Jason's Argonauts might not have went the way it did in the myths.

And Oll Persson's line for the sirens makes it almost certain they were warp entities.

Well you should try reading it again, because that is not at all what was said. Roomsky stated that it was just an allusion at the time Know no Fear was published, and that it was the change from ambiguity to certainty - the latter being the very thing that you yourself are relentlessly defending, despite nobody questioning it - which he took issue with. If you're going to relentlessly quote people here and in AOD in an attempt to propagate your views, maybe read posts more closely, or at least clarify things first...

 

FWIW, I agree with him.

 

I am sorry for that. And do we know when the next Siege of Terra book will be out?

Edited June 17, 2021 by Just123456

[mc warhammer]

nobody's entirely sure, mate...though there's some indication on amazon that it'll be august. there's a thread dedicated to "warhawk" if you'd like to post about it there.

[Roomsky]

 

I am sorry for that. And do we know when the next Siege of Terra book will be out?

 

 

No hard feelings involved, I'm sure. The Perpetual discussion probably deserves it's own thread though - I certainly have no real interest in the topic.

 

The Warhawk release date on Amazon has been bumped to October 12, so it'll probably be available to order off GW 1-2 weeks in advance. The initial release was listed for early August, maybe we'll see the LE around then.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Roomsky

[Just123456]

 

I am sorry for that. And do we know when the next Siege of Terra book will be out?

 

 

No hard feelings involved, I'm sure. The Perpetual discussion probably deserves it's own thread though - I certainly have no real interest in the topic.

 

The Warhawk release date on Amazon has been bumped to October 12, so it'll probably be available to order off GW 1-2 weeks in advance. The initial release was listed for early August, maybe we'll see the LE around then.

I want to see what Dan Abnett will do with Oll Persson in the last book.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

i'm coming around to thinking that there are all sort of spectrums to understanding conversation on the internet as well as various barriers (like language etc).  something i need to remind myself to be more aware of.

 

as for the point, i agree broadly with roomsky. i preferred that our irl mythological past was ambiguous in the 40k universe, this just opens up a can of worms as to how much mythology actually happened (is "journey to the west" real in 40k too? the iliad? camelot?). i think if it has to be, then tying those myths to the warp makes a certain amount of sense, even if i'm not a huge fan of it. it can make sense, i just don't know if it was needed.

Well, I believe Garro is wielding non other then Excalibur, aka Libertas.  The Golden Fleece seems not so far fetch.  

[mc warhammer]

 

i'm coming around to thinking that there are all sort of spectrums to understanding conversation on the internet as well as various barriers (like language etc).  something i need to remind myself to be more aware of.

 

as for the point, i agree broadly with roomsky. i preferred that our irl mythological past was ambiguous in the 40k universe, this just opens up a can of worms as to how much mythology actually happened (is "journey to the west" real in 40k too? the iliad? camelot?). i think if it has to be, then tying those myths to the warp makes a certain amount of sense, even if i'm not a huge fan of it. it can make sense, i just don't know if it was needed.

Well, I believe Garro is wielding non other then Excalibur, aka Libertas.  The Golden Fleece seems not so far fetch.  

 

ah true, i'd forgotten that.

 

there's probably something in making the world of 40k our world if myths were real, you could make a case for chaos or the warp always having its claws in terra from the early days through those legends.

 

i actually reckon french would be the man to do something like that justice.

[Bobss]

The best part of this book that I haven't seen anyone comment on is the closing exchange between Dorn and Corswain, where Dorn is expecting a full-scale 1st Legion deployment only to realise, ''nope, this is it. There is no one else coming.'' It transforms the mood of the Siege from a strategic game of stall and delay into a doomed last stand.  This is like the orcs spilling into Minas Tirith or the Romans breaking into Carthage. It sets up the final notes of the Siege quite nicely: chamber-by-chamber fighting on His finest rugs, Sig donning the black, the Khan riding out one last time, Sang defending his father's final citadel, the Emperor's last roll of the dice and so on

[Scribe]

Good catch. That didn't really resonate with me, as my view on the setting aligns with that as is.

[Bobss]

Good catch. That didn't really resonate with me, as my view on the setting aligns with that as is.

 

I would've been perfectly happy with a 1:1 novel-format adaptation of Collected Visions to be broootally honest, but for a book (and a Siege) that hasn't always nailed the mood as well as I would've liked, it was a very nice moment

[Angel_of_Blood]

There was a lot I liked, and some things I want so keen on, but solid book for all that. One of the things I did like though, was that it finally gave us a glimpse into what the Emperors Children were up to instead of fighting.

 

From some of the oldest Siege lore, we knew that the 3rd quite the Siege and started doing…….things…to the civilian population instead. So when Oll and Co started approaching the city and something was clearly off and it had already been named ‘Paradise’, I got hoping it would be something to do with them. And yeah, the results were pretty awful! Pretty much turned a botanical greenhouse city into one where the plants are either fed by people or made from people. Think I have to read those sections again to really take in all that was both stated, implied or alluded to. As it sounded pretty grim and nightmare fuel, as it should be!

[DarkChaplain]

I believe I might have stumbled over a little easter egg in Nick Kyme's Warhammer Horror short Pentimento.

 

"Paradise" is the underlying threat in that short story. The protagonist is hired to do two parallel jobs: a) accurately sketch the victims of a murder series, all of them strung up and posed in obscene yet artistic ways and b) restore a series of pictures of ecclesiarchal scenes, which it turns out are painted on top of other scenes depicting "Paradise", but the deeper she digs the more grotesque that imagery becomes, from lush gardens to corpse galleries, where the fruits are actually hearts, for example.

 

Considering the release window of the short, and Nick being the editor for the Siege, I doubt this is a coincidence, especially considering the slaaneshi resolution.

[DukeLeto69]

Which Horror anthology is that in?

[theSpirea]

Which Horror anthology is that in?

It's collected in The Harrowed Paths.

[DarkChaplain]

Finally found some time to start on Mortis, and I've already had to groan about Oll's introduction to the Siege. He literally flashbacks to various figures and moments of greek mythology, including Medea and Orpheus (specifically named), next to other allusions. Really starting off on the wrong foot, French, especially since it's all back to small world syndrome.

 

Like, couldn't he at least have remembered something not so obviously taken from Greek mythology that you'd find it retold in a Stephen Fry book? How about just having him think back to Jimbo the Space Dandy from M5 or some random restaurant at the end of the galaxy? Something creative instead of 5 references to the same mythological pool once again?

 

The other thing that annoys me is with the audiobook (which was delayed anyway).

The to me so far most interesting character of Boetharch Mauer is getting slapped with Jonathan Keeble's gear-grinding pseudo-German accent. It's bad, it's always been bad, and it's taking me out of the experience when her plotline shows the most promise so far, yet every time she opens her mouth, I am treated to... that.

 

On the subject of weird choices for character voices: Graft the Servitor sounds like a young boy in Oll's first scene, which is... not really what I'd expect a Servitor to sound like, least of all after having that long a lifespan, being decommissioned from his original purpose and travelling what sounds like a good amount of years (subjective time) through time/space portals without maintenance. I'd totally buy it if he was a cherub, but it's a work Servitor... who also had a rather different, more mechanical voice in previous books, which were most likely also voiced by Keeble. It's one of the things I've noticed the most out of his Siege narrations so far: He's not consistent in his depictions, especially of Primarchs. As the (sadly, imo) main narrator of the Heresy for the past 30 books or so, that's odd.