Chosen or zerkers?

[Plague _Lord]

I'm trying to get chosen back into the limelight as a premier assault unit. Let's compare them to zerkers :

10 zerkers with axe&sword, icon of wrath and champ with powerfist is 200pts. For that you get 18 chainsword attacks, 18 chainaxe attacks and 4 powerfist swings. Then you double it.

 

10 chosen with chainswords, bolters, 2x thunderhammer, champ with dual lihntning claws and icon of wrath are also 200pts. For that you get 21 chainsword attacks, 6 thunder hammer swipes and 6 lc attacks. You can fight twice for cp and you have some shooting before you charge in.

 

The damage output against hordes is of course on the zerkers' side but against big nasties the thunder hammers from chosen do work.

 

Can chosen substitute zerkers and work as a hammer? Thoughts?

[TorvaldTheMild]

I prefer zerkers, they aren't just good against hordes though, they hit pretty hard with those chainaxes and the sheer amount of attacks will find there way through really tough targets.  

[MegaVolt87]

Special/combi spam on chosen is a very attractive niche for them vs a melee loadout. I don't see why you should have to sub all, you could run both. It's not like elite slots are hard to come by these days.

[MasterDeath]

If we talk World Eaters a clear "no" beause of ObSec. In other Legions... still "no" because 4x2 Powerfist provide better AP and similar damage potential (except Dreadnoughts or other -1 damage effects) than 6 hammers. And the 6 LC do not outweigh the 15 additional Sword attacks + 18x2 Axe attacks. And both can fight again  via stratagem. Also more attacks are better if DttfE is in effect. The bolters... well I still have to see bolters doing work.

Maybe in Mark-locked legions/Warbands.

Edited December 7, 2020 by MasterDeath

[Special Officer Doofy]

Zerkers are also +1 strength, and if you are using CP for fight twice on the chosen you can Votlw the zerkers.

[Relentless]

The damage output against hordes is of course on the zerkers' side but against big nasties the thunder hammers from chosen do work.

 

Can chosen substitute zerkers and work as a hammer? Thoughts?

 

I have taken down a full wound knight in one round of fighting with 9-man zerker unit with axe/pistol and PF on champ.  They can take down anything they get in combat with.  This is of course with WE that get extra attack on charge, and better strats the give extra AP, DttfE on 5s, and VotLW.  But even without all that they can still do it.  And you can still get them to fight a third time!

[Kain Mor]

Raw combat potential chosen cannot compare to Zerkers in any measurable way. Even with just chainaxes and no power fist I’ve brought down a leman Russ in one round of combat, then used the fight again strat to pile into a second one and kill it. I did have an exalted champ for the re-roll wounds though which greatly helped.

 

 

Chosen are best used as firing platforms in my opinion. Dropping 5x combi plasma in a squad and watching them open up in rapid fire range, votlw + endless cacophony. Just beautiful.

 

Bonus points if it’s an 8th edition game and +1 to hit means free supercharge... but even without that I think that’s the true potential of the unit.

[Emicus]

Now kit wise that's an interesting conundrum!

 

One doesn't have a kit and the other is ugly as sin and older than the hills!

 

Chosen needs something ala bodyguard rule to stand out, ATM they have no purpose. Out-meeled, out-shot, out-durabilitied, out-obsec'd. If they buff in any of those directions they crimp someone else's niche.

 

I guess they are the most mix-and-match friendly unit? Great for a 5man kill-team sorta thing.....

[Doom Herald]

I think chosen would do well as a pure plasma or pure flamer team. With the ability to deepstrike any unit now, they could do some hurting. Obliterators are great, bit expensive and not totally reliable. Noise Marines don't pack the punch a full plasma Chosen squad would. Raptors can deepstrike and cary a bit of plasma, but not as much and can't take the melee options chosen could.

 

They have use as a ranged or hybrid unit. As a dedicated melee though, maybe not. If you're willing to pay the points to make them heavy on hammers, they could potentially put some serious hurt on high wound units. Taking enough hammers would sort of make them specialized against those units though, if you're throwing your thunderhammers at infantry more than tanks and monsters, you kind of waisted the points you spent. With the new flamers and vehicle shooting rules, all the flamers that vehicles will have makes using melee units against vehicles and monsters much less viable. Thunderhammer Chosen, to my mind, are in an unfortunate niche that the new edition has made less effective than other options.

[Emicus]

Surely terminators are better for deepstrike plasma? 0 CP and outflank\\\deep strike more durable too and nearly the same cost..

[Snazzy]

Why not just arm them all with Thunder Hammers?  Or, even Power Swords or Lightning Claws?  The talent of Chosen lies in the equipment.  No need to have them mimic Zerkers.

 

 

Surely terminators are better for deepstrike plasma? 0 CP and outflank\\\deep strike more durable too and nearly the same cost..

 

Terminators are at least 11 points more per model.  The real savings come in when Chosen are used for Flamer spam.  They save 5 points per model in comparison to Combi-Flamers.

[Emicus]

But look at what you get for 11 points! Included melee weapon, invuln save, extra wound, 2+ armour and deep strike!

 

While chosen are reaped like csm...

[Snazzy]

Right.  The point of Chosen is to leverage the lower per model costs and weapon availability for maximizing offensive power.  They serve no other function.

[Doom Herald]

But look at what you get for 11 points! Included melee weapon, invuln save, extra wound, 2+ armour and deep strike!

 

While chosen are reaped like csm...

Included melee weapon? Are their melee weapons free now? Chosen can take melee weapons in addition to their other weapons too.

[Jings]

 

But look at what you get for 11 points! Included melee weapon, invuln save, extra wound, 2+ armour and deep strike!

 

While chosen are reaped like csm...

Included melee weapon? Are their melee weapons free now? Chosen can take melee weapons in addition to their other weapons too.

 

 

Right? Not to mention that now Havok's are exclusively heavy weapon platforms, they're our go-to Special Weapons unit. The fact they can take Combi's for extra shots and free Chainswords is just gravy. Hope they get a nice boost come Codex. 

[MadEdric]

The shooting option for Chosen is the way I went. Champion with combi plasma and lightning claw, 4 with combi plasma and chainsword, one with plasmagun and chainsword, 3 with bolters and Chainswords.

Their purpose is midboard holding and threat saturation. They will be in my World Eaters Horde list where They will support 3 squads of Bezerkers, Terminators, and several heavy weapon CSM squads.

I am considering swapping out the one plasmagun for a comparably costed heavy weapon, either a heavy bolter or autocannon.