What if the lost primarchs took their legions to the warp...

[Red_Shift]

Regarding the marines incorporated into the Imperi Fists, it's revealed in the Soul Drinkers book series that their geneseed isn't that of Dorn, despite thinking of themselves as a Dorn successor chapter. It's my fan theory that they are descendents of a lost primarch as they were always a separate/specialised group even when the Fists legion was in place.

 

I quite like the idea that a legion was wiped out by the Rangdan and their primarch compromised. It makes Russ taking out their primarch all the sadder.

[Elzender]

Regarding the reassigned marines, it is entirely possible their geneseed was simply not collected or used. I see their assimilation into other legions as an opportunity for them to die honorably fighting in the Crusade. After all, their legion was no more, so there was no need for their geneseed line to continue.

[grailkeeper]

 

We know the primarchs were to be aspects of the Emperor's character to help him rule the Imperium. Might be worth looking at what aspects of his personality/abilities that are missing- the two missing primarchs may have been intended to cover these. For example a large part of the Imperium will be space and whilst the Primarchs are good at space combat there isn't one specialising in it.

Someone did that here through the Tarot. Very cool.

The Emperor's Tarot or actual Tarot cards?

 

I'd like to see that.

 

Another big questiom is why the traitor marines never talk about them.

[Rik Lightstar]

 

 

We know the primarchs were to be aspects of the Emperor's character to help him rule the Imperium. Might be worth looking at what aspects of his personality/abilities that are missing- the two missing primarchs may have been intended to cover these. For example a large part of the Imperium will be space and whilst the Primarchs are good at space combat there isn't one specialising in it.

Someone did that here through the Tarot. Very cool.

The Emperor's Tarot or actual Tarot cards?

 

I'd like to see that.

 

Another big questiom is why the traitor marines never talk about them.

 

 

There's a Heresy series scene where Dorn is talking to Malcador about the missing Legions while fortifying Terra, the memories had been removed/hidden by Malcador and/or The Emperor. Malcador returns them for the duration of the conversation and Dorn asks to have them removed/hidden again at the end of it.

 

As all of the Primarchs were loyal at the time it's pretty safe to assume the memories were tampered with in all of the Primarchs and their Marines, so even the (subsequent) Traitors wouldn't have the information to be able to share it.

 

Rik

[Scribe]

 

 

We know the primarchs were to be aspects of the Emperor's character to help him rule the Imperium. Might be worth looking at what aspects of his personality/abilities that are missing- the two missing primarchs may have been intended to cover these. For example a large part of the Imperium will be space and whilst the Primarchs are good at space combat there isn't one specialising in it.

Someone did that here through the Tarot. Very cool.

The Emperor's Tarot or actual Tarot cards?

 

I'd like to see that.

 

Another big questiom is why the traitor marines never talk about them.

The actual one. I'll do some looking when I'm on my PC.

[Scribe]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/363419-primarchs-of-the-tarot-a-30k-ua/

 

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/XIX.html

[MegaVolt87]

As far as the SoH recruits joining the WS instead, I think they just had Hypno therapy, lectures, extreme training to ready them for implantation, without any implants yet. It was a cultural rift in the WS, it was only physical difference after the bias of Terran Asiatic recruits, was mentioned by one of the transfered SoH recruits who was against the practice in this instance. Edited December 18, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[Rik Lightstar]

I like to think that one of the two was so successful in making a small empire in the System where they ended up that when the Emperor found them he left them there and hid the system from all records and hid it psychically from any external notice.

 

Leaving it there, as a small pocket of Utopia.

His retirement plan if he succeeded and Magnus had taken his place on the Golden throne, Horus would have taken over the management of the Imperium, the other Primarchs taking appropriate roles. Then the Emperor would use this place to start his next project, the Apotheosis of Humanity into a psychic race.

 

Yet also his back up plan, if EVERYTHING went wrong to the extent that the Imperium was lost then he could return to it with his trusted few and rebuild from there.

 

Hence being The Forgotten, this Primarch is gone to all but the Emperor (and Malcador) only to be rediscovered as an act of absolute last resort.

 

Rik

[Jings]

Regarding the reassigned marines, it is entirely possible their geneseed was simply not collected or used. I see their assimilation into other legions as an opportunity for them to die honorably fighting in the Crusade. After all, their legion was no more, so there was no need for their geneseed line to continue.

 

Pretty difficult to enforce that when everyone's been mind-blanked about any information regarding them. 

 

Not a big fan of the idea of the missing Legions being taken to the Warp. Much prefer the whole Lost and Damned angle with one turning traitor/being infected by Xenos (Rangdan probably) and killing the other during their war against them. There's a fair bit of support for this, what with Lorgar touching the tube of the IInd and commenting on how innocent he was then while lamenting his loss, and would give a good reason, both narrative and in-universe, for the mind-blank. It wouldn't be good if the Imperium at large found out that the Emperor's demi-god weapons could be turned against him, and it's best that the Primarchs themselves don't dwell too hard on the fact that they're essentially the only beings that can kill one another. 

 

While the Ultramarines get a lot of attention for the theory that they incorporated large numbers of the surviving legionaries from the Lost Legions, I'm a much bigger fan of the idea that Sigismund and the Templars are also from incorporated stock. As mentioned above, the Soul Drinkers discovered they're not in-fact direct descendants of Dorn, and while that does not in itself indicate they're descended from the Lost Legions, it does lend a bit of weight to the idea that the Fists may have been a largely mixed-Legion. The events of their reformation during the War of the Beast also lends credence to the idea that, thematically, the Sons of Dorn are as much adopted as they are genetic. It would give them a fun narrative niche and I enjoy the idea of Dorn leading a young Imperial Fist Legion and taking advantage of a large number of hopeless legionnaires to bolster his numbers. 

[Elzender]

Jings, it is possible they operated as a single fighting force, comprised by the lost legion marines and maybe a few selected officers from the adopting legion, which would only have the essential information at hand (possibly some Custodes and Sisters of Silence too, to make sure they do not do anything unwise). If these adopted marines stayed loyal (as in, they did not follow their primarchs in the actions that lead to their purge), they would probably go along with it, seeing it as a last chance to fight for the Great Crusade. Plus, they could be assigned to expeditionary fleets to remote locations, where they were unlikely to collaborate with other legions.

[Jings]

So I'll preface this by stating I think most evidence points towards one Primarch being turned against the Inperium, likely Xenos forces during the initial Rangdan conflict, which resulted in the killing of another. They aren't referred to as the Lost and the Damned for no reason.

 

The thing is any such marines would have been mind-wiped of any knowledge of their origins. For sure they could have just been used as cannon fodder, but considering that the Primarchs likely to have incorporated the strays (Guilliman and Dorn) aren't known needlessly spending the lives of their legionnaires.

 

Only way to let their genetic legacy die off would be to not extract their geneseed on death, which would in turn require justification and a resultant paper trail. The beaurocracy of the Imperium under The Sigilite was nothing if not thorough.

 

If the theory that the Templar sect of Fists are adopted legionnaires is true, it strongly indicates that their incorporation was full and absolute given Sigismund's status as First Captain.

[Elzender]

I want to note that all of my posts are purely based on speculation, as I am really not up to date with the Heresy books.

 

Jings, you say that the marines would have been mind-wiped, but I say that maybe they weren't. If they came from the corrupted legion, they were the ones that stood on the Emperor's side despite their primarch, and if they came from the one that fell fighting against the former, they were always loyal. Thus, making them take an oath of silence regarding their origin, and then putting them under surveillance of the Talons and officers from the adopting Legion might have been enough to keep it hidden, as they would likely have little reason to unveil their real identity. Or maybe the rank and file were mindwiped, but selected officers were allowed to keep a certain degree of knowledge to do take care of the geneseed disposal. Sending them as a minor expeditionary fleet, composed exclusively by these adopted marines, to the edges of the galaxy would then make it easier to hide them, and the Talons detachment would make it sure they would stand in line if needed.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Elzender

[Maatith]

Regarding the marines incorporated into the Imperi Fists, it's revealed in the Soul Drinkers book series that their geneseed isn't that of Dorn, despite thinking of themselves as a Dorn successor chapter. It's my fan theory that they are descendents of a lost primarch as they were always a separate/specialised group even when the Fists legion was in place.

 

I quite like the idea that a legion was wiped out by the Rangdan and their primarch compromised. It makes Russ taking out their primarch all the sadder.

In the Saga of the Beast books don't the Soul Drinkers contribute members to the rebuilt "Imperial Fists" following their destruction? Given that this never /officially/ happened, and even most Imperial Fists presumably believe that the Chapter never had to be "refounded" by the Last Wall, would that not suggest that Soul Drinker geneseed at its core should register as Imperial Fist, and their weird revelations in Phalanx are more a result of manipulation by their SecretChapliancyCult rather than being descendants of a missing Primarch?

[Jings]

I want to note that all of my posts are purely based on speculation, as I am really not up to date with the Heresy books.

 

Jings, you say that the marines would have been mind-wiped, but I say that maybe they weren't. If they came from the corrupted legion, they were the ones that stood on the Emperor's side despite their primarch, and if they came from the one that fell fighting against the former, they were always loyal. Thus, making them take an oath of silence regarding their origin, and then putting them under surveillance of the Talons and officers from the adopting Legion might have been enough to keep it hidden, as they would likely have little reason to unveil their real identity. Or maybe the rank and file were mindwiped, but selected officers were allowed to keep a certain degree of knowledge to do take care of the geneseed disposal. Sending them as a minor expeditionary fleet, composed exclusively by these adopted marines, to the edges of the galaxy would then make it easier to hide them, and the Talons detachment would make it sure they would stand in line if needed.

 

I just can't see that being allowed to happen. If the secret about the missing primarch is so important that the the Emperor personally mindblanks the remaining primarchs of any knowledge of who the missing are and what they did, I can't imagine they'd knowingly allow a fleet of survivors with any knowledge of what happened run free. There could be offshoot survivor groups who refused to return to the Imperium or something, but seeing as there hasn't been any occurrence of that taking place makes it seem the Imperium went to great lengths to suppress any and all information on those Legions outside of them having once existed. Any incorporated Marines would have, at best, a subconscious awareness of their original heritage. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/dvm7rz/concurring_with_the_black_templar_is_ii_legion/

 

If you're after a bit of reading, this thread has a lot of cool information.