Bladeguard vs Terminators

[Medjugorje]

If you play 16 BGV (2x5 + 2x3) you can hold out a bit shooting or instead 10 Terminators full buffed + 2x3 BGV is the question.

[9x19 Parabellum]

If you play 16 BGV (2x5 + 2x3) you can hold out a bit shooting or instead 10 Terminators full buffed + 2x3 BGV is the question.

 

I ask this sincerely, aren't we limited to rule of 3 in 9th edition? (no more than 3 of any given datasheet, except for Core Troops?)  That would be a max of 3 units of BGV. (or any other unit)

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think in matched play it's still a thing

[Medjugorje]

 

If you play 16 BGV (2x5 + 2x3) you can hold out a bit shooting or instead 10 Terminators full buffed + 2x3 BGV is the question.

 

I ask this sincerely, aren't we limited to rule of 3 in 9th edition? (no more than 3 of any given datasheet, except for Core Troops?)  That would be a max of 3 units of BGV. (or any other unit)

 

you can play 2x5 + 1x6 and split them into 2x3. So everything is correct

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

 

If you play 16 BGV (2x5 + 2x3) you can hold out a bit shooting or instead 10 Terminators full buffed + 2x3 BGV is the question.

 

I ask this sincerely, aren't we limited to rule of 3 in 9th edition? (no more than 3 of any given datasheet, except for Core Troops?)  That would be a max of 3 units of BGV. (or any other unit)

 

you can play 2x5 + 1x6 and split them into 2x3. So everything is correct

 

 

Combat Squadding Bladeguard Vets! Nice. Never thought of that.

[GenerationTerrorist]

I like the idea of 5*BGV+Ancient in an Impulsor for frontline duties, whilst a unit of 5 PF/SB Terminators to hold backfield/midfield objective and lay down some punishing anti-infantry fire.

[Medjugorje]

had a game against Death Guard yesterday. Hmmm,... after the todays FAQ the enemy list is 400 points more expensive because of the Blight haulers (he played as much as possible - 3x3). But it showed that Terminators are so much better then BGV against those types of lists. And I think its the same against armies with lot of vehicles like Venom spam.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

had a game against Death Guard yesterday. Hmmm,... after the todays FAQ the enemy list is 400 points more expensive because of the Blight haulers (he played as much as possible - 3x3). But it showed that Terminators are so much better then BGV against those types of lists. And I think its the same against armies with lot of vehicles like Venom spam.

which type of terminator were you running ?

[Medjugorje]

If I compare BGV with Terminators then always assault terminators. To normal Terminators we have to compare Aggressors I think.

[XeonDragon]

Sorry to reincarnate the thread, but I've been thinking about this a bit more recently. It occurs to me that relic terminators with LCs and combi-bolters cost about the same as BGV. I've done some mathhammer and basically the BGV and slightly more durable, and have better damage output - and that is without considering that they can shoot in the shooting phase even whilst being in engagement range with the pistols, something relic or ordinary terminators can't do. So to my mind, that makes them a superior unit... IF (*IF*) can you can get them into the opponents face reliably (e.g. Raven Guard shenanigans). 

 

In contrast relic terminators (most comparable based on cost) are nearly as durable, less damage output but have better range (so can contribute in shooting phase in a more meaningful way) but also better mobility via teleport deepstrike and cheap transport (e.g. drop pods, rhinos etc.). 

 

So I think, for me, it depend on what you want to do with them. If building a TAC list, I'd take both in roughly equal points value. 

[Medjugorje]

I think 

 

Assault Terminators > BGV > all other Terminators.

 

the Shield with 4++ and better Save AND 3dmg flat with stratagem for +1 to hit is still too good.

[XeonDragon]

I think 

 

Assault Terminators > BGV > all other Terminators.

 

the Shield with 4++ and better Save AND 3dmg flat with stratagem for +1 to hit is still too good.

 

I agree with that, at least from a melee perspective. I think if you simply want to smash the unit up into the opponent to cause a massive melee-mosh-pit, Assault Terminators are the clear choice. However, if you want something that can contribute in all phases, it becomes harder. This is what I think (RT = relic terminators, NT = normal terminators):

 

1. Do you want to use only melee to kill something, bog the opponent down or take an objective? then AT > BGV > RT > NT

2. Do you want to mainly use melee to kill something, bog the opponent down or take an objective, but would also like some shooting? then BGV > RT > NT > AT

3. Do you want something flexible that you can deploy just about anywhere, with balanced shooting (with decent range and/or some anti-tank/heavy) and decent melee? then NT > RT > BGV > AT

Edited February 10, 2021 by XeonDragon

[Medjugorje]

Last game I had against SoB, it was terrible not to have enough shooting because If I do the "trade - game" He will charge with Repentias and then I have to kill them and this should be done parenthetically while moving forward. So maybe Terminators are a way to deepstrike with Canticle of hate, shoot a few things down and then charge and trade anyway

[XeonDragon]

Exactly. The terminators will do more in the shooting phase, less in the melee phase than BGV. BGV do have the advantage that if  the combat goes for more than 1 round (i.e. you don't kill the unit you charged first go), they can shoot the pistols in the next shooting phase. Probably not so relevant against SOB methinks, but maybe relevant against DG or swarms of nids and orks (for example). 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

BGV can use Transhuman as well.

[Medjugorje]

its a point. Problem is that in the current meta I dont think transport work that well.

[XeonDragon]

Whilst transhuman is awesome, it is a double-edged sword. It costs CP. I know others may think differently, but for me I want a unit to "make sense" and to be able to perform its role without needing to feed it CP. To my mind, anything that makes it better via CP is a "nice to have" or an "in emergency, hit this button"  opportunity, not an essential. 

 

As for transports... if the transport will add something to the unit, or make a contribution by and of itself, or otherwise do something useful (i.e. drop pods turn 1 deepstrike and clogging up movement lanes) then that is OK, but generally I prefer units that don't need transports to make them viable, which in relation to BGV I think is the case for many chapters.

 

Don't get me wrong, BGV are awesome at what they do.... the challenge is making sure they get there with enough models alive to be able to do it, something relic terminators don't have to worry about as much.