Advice on Starting a Deathwatch Army

[techsoldaten]

Could use some help. The lockdowns have kept me from playing a game of 9th. Looking for advice on starting a Deathwatch army, just feels like I have a poor frame of reference for where to start.

 

From what I've gathered, Deathwatch is challenging in 9th. I don't really understand secondaries or how they relate to list building.

 

How important is it to consider objectives when selecting your forces? Do you have a set in mind that you regularly go after?

 

In terms of models, I have bits to make about 100x Kill Team members, 80 Intercessors, 2x of the Dark Imperium models, 2x of the Indomitus sets, 2x of the Shadowspear sets, and more. I have 2x Blackstars already painted along with some Inquisition Dreadnoughts that are already painted and magnetized. I have Grey Knight and Guard armies sitting around if I need them for allies.

 

The only models I've seen in lists that I don't have sitting around are Redemptors and Redeemers. Happy to do without them unless there's a really good reason to include them.

 

Can you suggest what a strong list looks like for 9th? I've seen a lot of lists people call "good," but they're so tricked out with options I have a hard time appreciating how they actually work.

 

In response to the question about playstyle: I'm a long time Chaos player who enjoys mid-range melee armies and long-range shooty armies. If I thought they were any good, I'd be doing Kill Teams in Drop Pods because deep strike appeals to me in all sorts of ways. I'm not really interested in playing the other Space Marine chapters, even if they have better rules. Deathwatch appeals because they are Inquisition.

 

I don't play in tournaments but my local meta (assuming it comes back) is extremely competitive and includes people who compete at a high level. Before 9th came out, there were a lot of Dark Eldar, Ork, Imperial Knight and Primaris armies being played. I expect that to change as people do tend to follow what's good.

 

 

[Debauchery101]

DW have access to all of the most efficient and competitive options the other chapters have access to while mostly being able to take them as troops.

 

There is no determined 'best list' for DW. In most situations dw can make lists to play as good or better than other chapters styles while also having a few Extra tricks

[techsoldaten]

DW have access to all of the most efficient and competitive options the other chapters have access to while mostly being able to take them as troops.

 

There is no determined 'best list' for DW. In most situations dw can make lists to play as good or better than other chapters styles while also having a few Extra tricks

Thanks for the response.

 

Sorry to sound pedantic. I was not asking for some theoretical best list, but for people to share what they think a strong list looks like.

 

I've been reading through threads and am getting a little overwhelmed by the details. Every unit is sort of a grab bag and I don't always understand the reasons for choosing certain configurations on the Primaris side.

 

The issue of objectives confuses me as well. I get the sense it affects list building, that things like teleport homers are used to achieve secondaries. Is this really a thing with DW armies?

[Rikev]

From a modelling perspective, all players should start with a unit of Veterans. Aside from the unit being very flexible, it contains various useful weapons and components such as chapter shoulder pads that face forwards when put on the opposite shoulder.

[ThePenitentOne]

Yeah, second that- even the five man KT box is packed with bits.

 

I'm new to DW too. What I think I've learned is that you should fill your army with Kill Teams; you have to take the first five models as base units- so for for the Proteus teams, that's Old Marine Vets on foot, for Fortis Teams, it's Intercessors, etc. But the second set of 5 in any kill team should be a different type- like Terminators, Bikes or Outriders. Then when the game begins, you break them into combat squads; this way, you get bikers or terminators who have the Objective Secured ability.

 

Obviously, fast units like bikes, jump packs and teleporting terminators are good at claiming objectives fast, so this can influence choices of secondaries- if you have a lot of these units, choosing secondaries that involving claiming territory quickly is wise.

 

That's a start.

[Debauchery101]

 

 

DW have access to all of the most efficient and competitive options the other chapters have access to while mostly being able to take them as troops.

 

There is no determined 'best list' for DW. In most situations dw can make lists to play as good or better than other chapters styles while also having a few Extra tricks

Thanks for the response.

 

Sorry to sound pedantic. I was not asking for some theoretical best list, but for people to share what they think a strong list looks like.

 

I've been reading through threads and am getting a little overwhelmed by the details. Every unit is sort of a grab bag and I don't always understand the reasons for choosing certain configurations on the Primaris side.

 

The issue of objectives confuses me as well. I get the sense it affects list building, that things like teleport homers are used to achieve secondaries. Is this really a thing with DW armies?

DW is like being a master of all fighting styles. You're likely only going to have to face 1 style...maybe 2 or 3 but the effort behind each style will be limited. You have multiple options to counter everything and again....while having most of your units in troops with OBSEC.

Its like you're asking me to teach you how to play DW. I suggest you make a list, play it and adjust. Seek advice for that list. Ive played all first born and all primaris(besides HQs). Drop pods, biker spam, sniper spam and infantry death star blob.

If you are effective and/or enjoy a playstyle with marines then go that route and tweak the list or strategy. Elite armies fall more into the rock, paper, scissors play so finesse is required at times. You can choose mission tactics, turn by turn doctrine, kill team specs, add SIA and Swap Chapter tactics all on top of strats like rapid fire, commanding oratory...it is overwhelming and I didn't know where to start...I just played games and found what I like to use and how to use it

Some basic tenants and things to keep in your brain that I follow for DW are

10 stalker intercessors are never a bad choice. If your opponent has large or powerful units you can align the stars and drop 4 to 6 cp and kill anything in one turn so long as it doesn't have the Ghazkul/Ctan ability..with their stalker bolters

 

Plan to use all CP on primaris during the game because you can spend points and pregame CP to make firstborn options as good as they need to be

 

Intercessors suck in kill teams. I'd never use more than 1 fortis team because those intercessors lose out on their unique strats with RAW currently

 

Vanguard vets are the best unit. Blade guard vets with medic are close second

 

Land Speeder tempests are a great list filler. When you're at around 100 points left in your list and you're looking to shave off points to take another squad...all stop...take one of these and give the change to some vets like some more combi flamers

 

Spectrus teams and drop pod use should be a major part of your army and strategy. Which includes infils with comms and a phobos captain/character with lord of Deceit so you can max out deployment manipulation. For drop pods 2 or 3 at least with enough firepower to kill anything in range so your opponent loses any ability to challenge any objectives nearby.

 

In general target all of the opponents obsec units because you start with more than most armies when an opponent has less than 3 obsec left vs DW they most likely are not going to contest you without swarming one area

 

See you got me to ramble on more than I wanted and now maybe you're information overloaded again. Make a list, tell me what you're fighting and ask me for advice. I can easily help that way. Because this way is me now just shooting buckshot at your brain from 50 ft away...

[techsoldaten]

 

DW is like being a master of all fighting styles. You're likely only going to have to face 1 style...maybe 2 or 3 but the effort behind each style will be limited. You have multiple options to counter everything and again....while having most of your units in troops with OBSEC.

Its like you're asking me to teach you how to play DW. I suggest you make a list, play it and adjust. Seek advice for that list. Ive played all first born and all primaris(besides HQs). Drop pods, biker spam, sniper spam and infantry death star blob.

If you are effective and/or enjoy a playstyle with marines then go that route and tweak the list or strategy. Elite armies fall more into the rock, paper, scissors play so finesse is required at times. You can choose mission tactics, turn by turn doctrine, kill team specs, add SIA and Swap Chapter tactics all on top of strats like rapid fire, commanding oratory...it is overwhelming and I didn't know where to start...I just played games and found what I like to use and how to use it

Some basic tenants and things to keep in your brain that I follow for DW are

10 stalker intercessors are never a bad choice. If your opponent has large or powerful units you can align the stars and drop 4 to 6 cp and kill anything in one turn so long as it doesn't have the Ghazkul/Ctan ability..with their stalker bolters

 

Plan to use all CP on primaris during the game because you can spend points and pregame CP to make firstborn options as good as they need to be

 

Intercessors suck in kill teams. I'd never use more than 1 fortis team because those intercessors lose out on their unique strats with RAW currently

 

Vanguard vets are the best unit. Blade guard vets with medic are close second

 

Land Speeder tempests are a great list filler. When you're at around 100 points left in your list and you're looking to shave off points to take another squad...all stop...take one of these and give the change to some vets like some more combi flamers

 

Spectrus teams and drop pod use should be a major part of your army and strategy. Which includes infils with comms and a phobos captain/character with lord of Deceit so you can max out deployment manipulation. For drop pods 2 or 3 at least with enough firepower to kill anything in range so your opponent loses any ability to challenge any objectives nearby.

 

In general target all of the opponents obsec units because you start with more than most armies when an opponent has less than 3 obsec left vs DW they most likely are not going to contest you without swarming one area

 

See you got me to ramble on more than I wanted and now maybe you're information overloaded again. Make a list, tell me what you're fighting and ask me for advice. I can easily help that way. Because this way is me now just shooting buckshot at your brain from 50 ft away...

 

Oh, that was a great ramble.

 

You hit on my basic point of unease, Vets versus Primaris. Late 8th-ed Primaris armies were pretty tough, but SIA is no joke. My sense is Vets still have the upper hand.

 

First unit I'm working on is a Proteus Kill Team. Would help me to understand:

 

- Terminator with a Storm Shield to tank wounds - still a good idea?

 

- I keep reading about Vets with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields. This doesn't seem that good - what am I missing?

 

- Frag Cannons are tempting. Any preferred Heavy Weapons at this point?

[Debauchery101]

I give my company vets storm bolters/shields since they do not get SIA...I take 2 to 4 of them with 1 having a fist

 

A key edit on the points of Spectrus and Drop Pods....I meant to say that if you choose those units then do......

Edited December 14, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Irbis]

There is no determined 'best list' for DW. In most situations dw can make lists to play as good or better than other chapters styles while also having a few Extra tricks

 

Funny, because my experience is 180 degree opposite - DW can now make poor man's copy of other chapter tacticts, but these will easily demolish DW in their own niche. It's depressing to see bolter trait sternguard (never mind Fists one) being better at being DW veterans than actual veterans.

 

That said, DW is still very flexible and nice in hobby aspect, but calling it 'master' of anything is just silly.

 

- I keep reading about Vets with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields. This doesn't seem that good - what am I missing?

 

If you mean advice older than a month, it's because SB/SS used to be a gigantic crutch that was the only thing allowing DW to compete (and even then DW had like 20% win rate in tournaments). That received huge nerf in supplement, so yeah, you're right it doesn't seem good right now. Current equivalent of this is trying to cheese obsec with whatever OP marine unit you can grab, which will work until GW nerfs said units and DW will go back to the end of SM army queue.

 

Don't get me wrong, DW is fine in casual play and can be OK if you play xenos a lot, but the way people here try to play it up as something competitive is vastly overselling it. I still love the army but was mostly playing it as SM this year, and supplement didn't really changed it...

[techsoldaten]

 

- I keep reading about Vets with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields. This doesn't seem that good - what am I missing?

 

If you mean advice older than a month, it's because SB/SS used to be a gigantic crutch that was the only thing allowing DW to compete (and even then DW had like 20% win rate in tournaments). That received huge nerf in supplement, so yeah, you're right it doesn't seem good right now.

 

This is a huge issue. Hate it when I spend half an hour digging into some article only to find it was from 2019.

 

 

 

Current equivalent of this is trying to cheese obsec with whatever OP marine unit you can grab, which will work until GW nerfs said units and DW will go back to the end of SM army queue.

 

Don't get me wrong, DW is fine in casual play and can be OK if you play xenos a lot, but the way people here try to play it up as something competitive is vastly overselling it. I still love the army but was mostly playing it as SM this year, and supplement didn't really changed it...

Yeah, I'm under no illusions. I just don't want to build a crippled army or spend months painting something that just goes on a shelf.

 

My situation is I have a ton of Loyalist stuff sitting around and no desire to play a Loyalist chapter. Grey Knights and Deathwatch are the only two I would consider.

[Debauchery101]

 

There is no determined 'best list' for DW. In most situations dw can make lists to play as good or better than other chapters styles while also having a few Extra tricks

Funny, because my experience is 180 degree opposite - DW can now make poor man's copy of other chapter tacticts, but these will easily demolish DW in their own niche. It's depressing to see bolter trait sternguard (never mind Fists one) being better at being DW veterans than actual veterans.

 

That said, DW is still very flexible and nice in hobby aspect, but calling it 'master' of anything is just silly.

- I keep reading about Vets with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields. This doesn't seem that good - what am I missing?

If you mean advice older than a month, it's because SB/SS used to be a gigantic crutch that was the only thing allowing DW to compete (and even then DW had like 20% win rate in tournaments). That received huge nerf in supplement, so yeah, you're right it doesn't seem good right now. Current equivalent of this is trying to cheese obsec with whatever OP marine unit you can grab, which will work until GW nerfs said units and DW will go back to the end of SM army queue.

 

Don't get me wrong, DW is fine in casual play and can be OK if you play xenos a lot, but the way people here try to play it up as something competitive is vastly overselling it. I still love the army but was mostly playing it as SM this year, and supplement didn't really changed it...

how much experience do you have playing DW with the new rules? Also how can anyone truly speculate whats the most competitive at this point? Looking at the <100 players reporting their mostly small tournaments in the same handful of locations the last couple of months shows that people are coming in with wierd lists that smash a lot of peoples ideas of what's competitive. I've seen every faction except maybe tau rank in top 3 since I started following it again with the new marine releases. The amount of players who Choose to play DW are very small as well. Let alone choose to flesh out their collection to be able to play a variety of styles

[Debauchery101]

 

 

 

 

- I keep reading about Vets with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields. This doesn't seem that good - what am I missing?

If you mean advice older than a month, it's because SB/SS used to be a gigantic crutch that was the only thing allowing DW to compete (and even then DW had like 20% win rate in tournaments). That received huge nerf in supplement, so yeah, you're right it doesn't seem good right now.

This is a huge issue. Hate it when I spend half an hour digging into some article only to find it was from 2019.

 

Current equivalent of this is trying to cheese obsec with whatever OP marine unit you can grab, which will work until GW nerfs said units and DW will go back to the end of SM army queue.

 

Don't get me wrong, DW is fine in casual play and can be OK if you play xenos a lot, but the way people here try to play it up as something competitive is vastly overselling it. I still love the army but was mostly playing it as SM this year, and supplement didn't really changed it...

Yeah, I'm under no illusions. I just don't want to build a crippled army or spend months painting something that just goes on a shelf.

 

My situation is I have a ton of Loyalist stuff sitting around and no desire to play a Loyalist chapter. Grey Knights and Deathwatch are the only two I would consider.

DW will never suck. Most people only played them when they could spam ss/sb and add in tank ace allies and cheap guard for CP boosting. As well as When the primaris KT had better bonuses for aggressors.

You truly can make very competitive lists with DW and with almost any SM chapter. We don't even know what the rest are getting yet in finality.

Don't let salty ass people come and sway you from wanting to start something. Especially in a thread when you're asking for help. First sign of they dont play enough if at all. Because even if they failed, adjusted and played some more...they'd have some sort of advice to give you in a thread asking for advice.

[techsoldaten]

 

how much experience do you have playing DW with the new rules? Also how can anyone truly speculate whats the most competitive at this point? Looking at the <100 players reporting their mostly small tournaments in the same handful of locations the last couple of months shows that people are coming in with wierd lists that smash a lot of peoples ideas of what's competitive. I've seen every faction except maybe tau rank in top 3 since I started following it again with the new marine releases. The amount of players who Choose to play DW are very small as well. Let alone choose to flesh out their collection to be able to play a variety of styles

 

 

The talent pool appears to be shallow right now.

 

The people I would usually rely on for opinion are silent on the issue of DW competitiveness. I suspect there are a lot of builds that have never been tried.

 

My challenge is lockdowns are preventing me from learning much about 9th edition. Without a frame of reference, I can't really say what would be good or not. Leaves me feeling vulnerable, like I'm going to build a bunch of models that will be unplayable as an army.

 

 

 

 

My situation is I have a ton of Loyalist stuff sitting around and no desire to play a Loyalist chapter. Grey Knights and Deathwatch are the only two I would consider.

 

DW will never suck. Most people only played them when they could spam ss/sb and add in tank ace allies and cheap guard for CP boosting. As well as When the primaris KT had better bonuses for aggressors.

You truly can make very competitive lists with DW and with almost any SM chapter. We don't even know what the rest are getting yet in finality.

Don't let salty ass people come and sway you from wanting to start something. Especially in a thread when you're asking for help. First sign of they dont play enough if at all. Because even if they failed, adjusted and played some more...they'd have some sort of advice to give you in a thread asking for advice.

 

Heh heh. Once I've made up my mind, it's hard to stop me.

 

I asked people in this thread for their opinions and I've gotten a few. Wish there were more, pro or con.

 

I traditionally play Chaos and know they are severely disadvantaged in 9th edition. For a mid-range army, you can't have charge mechanics working against you and limited long-range shooting options at the same time. Maybe I could play straight Daemons but that's never been a real thrill for me.

 

My thinking is Deathwatch are different, they can use Drop Pods / Deep Strike to claim objectives early and set up overlapping firebases that can't be dealt with easily. Back that with some long-range anti-armor or flyers, maybe there's a good army there.

 

On paper, that sounds like a good army. There are so many possibilities.

 

 

[Debauchery101]

Like I had mentioned before some Stalker-Cessors, DW vets and VVs are what you should always think about including. I myself prefer shooty armies so sometimes I only take 5 VV and 1 or 2 jump characters so I have just a bit of counter punch.

I'm starting to like the librarians more as I use them