DW Veteran Load Out Question

[Syward]

Greetings brothers & sisters of the Watch!

 

So recently I've been using the beta version of the Battle Forge app from GW to try to make my DW army list. When I try to create a veteran squad, it seems to limit the load out and I'm curious, is the app just not including the all of the wargear  options or am I misunderstanding the codex supplement?

 

Here's the squad I'm attempting to make:

 

1x Watch Sergeant w/Deathwatch Combi-Plasma & Storm Shield

4x Deathwatch Veteran w/Deathwatch Combi-Plasma & Storm Shield

2x Deathwatch Veteran w/Frag Cannon

 

Now in the GW Battle Forge app, I'm able to add the Deathwatch Combi-Plasma & the Storm Shield to the Watch Sgt. And I can equip the two veterans with Frag Cannons, but for the other Veterans, I'm only able to equip them with a Deathwatch Combi-Plasma, the option for a Storm Shield isn't present at all.

 

The way I understood the codex supplement, we could still equip our veterans with Stormshields, or have I overlooked something? Also, Battlescribe allows me to create this load out currently as well. 

 

I haven't' started assembling the army yet, but I'd like to make sure I'm building a legal unit before I get started. 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Debauchery101]

I have yet to use that app but the codex allows it.

A suggestion to you...take a hvy hammer or fist and shield for your sgt, especially if you are not taking a black shield.

 

I'd also suggest not putting Plasma on your shields because frying a marine is a loss already you want as many shields in the squad for when your opponent attacks you.

 

1 last thing. If you want to rock just power armor foot infantry, its good to make it a kill team and take 1 or 2 vanguard vets. They can get your extra hvy hammers, rock dual claws, dual chainswords and they grant you the melta bombs ability. Which is such an amazing strat to use when you have the chance..2d3 mortal wounds average 4...on vehicles

[ServoBadger]

Just for variety, I can add a Deathwatch Combi-Plasma and a Storm Shield (from the wargear section at the end of the weapon options) but it adds TWO Combi-Plasmas instead of one.

[CCE1981]

Yeah don't trust anything in the app, it needs a lot of work.

 

 

I am not sure how well it will work but I am liking a Veteran Squad with 4x Frag Cannons, 4x Bikes with chainswords, and a Vanguard Marine with Jump Pack Storm Shield and Power Fist.  Combat Squad them and you have fire support and chaff clearance.

[Debauchery101]

Yeah don't trust anything in the app, it needs a lot of work.

 

 

I am not sure how well it will work but I am liking a Veteran Squad with 4x Frag Cannons, 4x Bikes with chainswords, and a Vanguard Marine with Jump Pack Storm Shield and Power Fist. Combat Squad them and you have fire support and chaff clearance.

youd be better to have them all bikes for the turbo boost if you choose to combat squad them. But looking at a kt of half fast movers and foot troops is something I've wanted to try and implement some daisy chaining for screens and when needed I can suck in the bikers and jump packs to the vets.

[Syward]

Thanks for the confirmation everyone. I appreciate it. These squads are going to be drop pod squads that drop in with a librarian & watch master to either take & hold an objective or attempt to pop a high value target or two on turn 1. 

[CCE1981]

 

Yeah don't trust anything in the app, it needs a lot of work.

 

 

I am not sure how well it will work but I am liking a Veteran Squad with 4x Frag Cannons, 4x Bikes with chainswords, and a Vanguard Marine with Jump Pack Storm Shield and Power Fist. Combat Squad them and you have fire support and chaff clearance.

youd be better to have them all bikes for the turbo boost if you choose to combat squad them. But looking at a kt of half fast movers and foot troops is something I've wanted to try and implement some daisy chaining for screens and when needed I can suck in the bikers and jump packs to the vets.

The Bikes and Vanguard with a jump pack would act as a unit, if charged the bikes can still fall back and shoot with a strat. A 36” threat range for 16 shots using Special Issue Ammo is pretty nice. Edited December 29, 2020 by CCE1981

[Debauchery101]

 

 

Yeah don't trust anything in the app, it needs a lot of work.

 

 

I am not sure how well it will work but I am liking a Veteran Squad with 4x Frag Cannons, 4x Bikes with chainswords, and a Vanguard Marine with Jump Pack Storm Shield and Power Fist. Combat Squad them and you have fire support and chaff clearance.

youd be better to have them all bikes for the turbo boost if you choose to combat squad them. But looking at a kt of half fast movers and foot troops is something I've wanted to try and implement some daisy chaining for screens and when needed I can suck in the bikers and jump packs to the vets.

The Bikes and Vanguard with a jump pack would act as a unit, if charged the bikes can still fall back and shoot with a strat. A 36” threat range for 16 shots using Special Issue Ammo is pretty nice.

what weapons are you referring to for use of SIA? Bikers don't get it.

[techsoldaten]

Yeah, the GW app is buggy, wouldn't use it atm. Even Battlescribe has it's issues.

 

I'm just getting started with Deathwatch and working on a similar list. 2x Kill Teams coming out of Drop Pods to grab objectives early-game, storm shields and Deathwatch bolters. Putting down 2 squads and a big piece of cover seems like a good way to control a couple objectives for at least 2 turns.

 

Curious about the combi-plasma. Coming from the CSM world, that's what I'd take with a squad of Terminators. Their job would be to eliminate a threat, I'd also use a Stratagem to allow them to shoot twice.

 

For the points, if you're dedicating a couple teams to early-game killing, wouldn't it be better to take a Repulsor? 36" threat radius on most of it's guns turn 1. You're probably not going to be able to deep strike anywhere that the tank can't shoot.

[Debauchery101]

Yeah, the GW app is buggy, wouldn't use it atm. Even Battlescribe has it's issues.

 

I'm just getting started with Deathwatch and working on a similar list. 2x Kill Teams coming out of Drop Pods to grab objectives early-game, storm shields and Deathwatch bolters. Putting down 2 squads and a big piece of cover seems like a good way to control a couple objectives for at least 2 turns.

 

Curious about the combi-plasma. Coming from the CSM world, that's what I'd take with a squad of Terminators. Their job would be to eliminate a threat, I'd also use a Stratagem to allow them to shoot twice.

 

For the points, if you're dedicating a couple teams to early-game killing, wouldn't it be better to take a Repulsor? 36" threat radius on most of it's guns turn 1. You're probably not going to be able to deep strike anywhere that the tank can't shoot.

with vets/proteus i find the use of plasma not worth it. With manipulation of doctrines, tactics and abundance of ways to get wound rerolls its way more efficient using DW bolters. You get a lot of no risk 2w shots. Frag cannons dropped to 10 points. These are now one of the best weapons in the game. If they can drop near most 10+ man units they're going to wipe it with 2 or 3 frag cannons

 

If you really want plasma I would look more towards inceptors they get blast on their plasma and can stay back an extra 6 inches.

[techsoldaten]

 

Yeah, the GW app is buggy, wouldn't use it atm. Even Battlescribe has it's issues.

 

I'm just getting started with Deathwatch and working on a similar list. 2x Kill Teams coming out of Drop Pods to grab objectives early-game, storm shields and Deathwatch bolters. Putting down 2 squads and a big piece of cover seems like a good way to control a couple objectives for at least 2 turns.

 

Curious about the combi-plasma. Coming from the CSM world, that's what I'd take with a squad of Terminators. Their job would be to eliminate a threat, I'd also use a Stratagem to allow them to shoot twice.

 

For the points, if you're dedicating a couple teams to early-game killing, wouldn't it be better to take a Repulsor? 36" threat radius on most of it's guns turn 1. You're probably not going to be able to deep strike anywhere that the tank can't shoot.

with vets/proteus i find the use of plasma not worth it. With manipulation of doctrines, tactics and abundance of ways to get wound rerolls its way more efficient using DW bolters. You get a lot of no risk 2w shots. Frag cannons dropped to 10 points. These are now one of the best weapons in the game. If they can drop near most 10+ man units they're going to wipe it with 2 or 3 frag cannons

 

If you really want plasma I would look more towards inceptors they get blast on their plasma and can stay back an extra 6 inches.

 

Wise words.

 

And about what I figured. Deathwatch Bolters are pretty potent, didn't see how combi-plasma outclasses them.

 

Here's something I'm wondering. The Codex says you can't take a Deathwatch Bolter with a Storm Shield. But I keep finding stories about Vets with SS and Storm Bolters.

 

Was this a thing that changed since 8th edition?

 

Because deep striking vets in drop pods means you have to keep them alive. Combat Squadding helps, getting cover from the Drop Pod helps, but I'd really like to be putting some SS guys in there too. At 5 models per combat squad, it looks like this means you lose a good gun every time you take a shield.

[CCE1981]

 

 

 

Yeah don't trust anything in the app, it needs a lot of work.

 

 

I am not sure how well it will work but I am liking a Veteran Squad with 4x Frag Cannons, 4x Bikes with chainswords, and a Vanguard Marine with Jump Pack Storm Shield and Power Fist. Combat Squad them and you have fire support and chaff clearance.

youd be better to have them all bikes for the turbo boost if you choose to combat squad them. But looking at a kt of half fast movers and foot troops is something I've wanted to try and implement some daisy chaining for screens and when needed I can suck in the bikers and jump packs to the vets.

The Bikes and Vanguard with a jump pack would act as a unit, if charged the bikes can still fall back and shoot with a strat. A 36” threat range for 16 shots using Special Issue Ammo is pretty nice.

what weapons are you referring to for use of SIA? Bikers don't get it.

D’oh, was thinking of a Stratagem bu t that is infantry only.

[Debauchery101]

where do you see you can't take a Deathwatch Bolter with a shield? The stalker bolter and shotgun you cannot. It basically locks you into only that weapon. Which seems to be a way of preventing a Vet using 2 weapons with SIA

 

I believe the text says something thing close to...any vet, vet sgt or Blackshield can trade in the bolter and power sword for

Shotgun

Stalker bolter

Or pieces of Deathwatch equipment.

The last part is where you can find shields, combi weapons, bolter and melee weapons. Some items you can only choose one of.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Debauchery101

[techsoldaten]

where do you see you can't take a Deathwatch Bolter with a shield? The stalker bolter and shotgun you cannot. It basically locks you into only that weapon. Which seems to be a way of preventing a Vet using 2 weapons with SIA

 

I believe the text says something thing close to...any vet, vet sgt or Blackshield can trade in the bolter and power sword for

Shotgun

Stalker bolter

Or pieces of Deathwatch equipment.

The last part is where you can find shields, combi weapons, bolter and melee weapons. Some items you can only choose one of.

Happy to be wrong about this.

 

Deathwatch Veterans come with a Deathwatch boltgun and Power Sword. A Vet can replace the gun and sword with up to 2 items from the Deathwatch Equipment list.

 

The Deathwatch Equipment list is split into 2 sections, a section where you can take 2 items and a section where you can take only 1. The Deathwatch Boltgun is in the section where you can take only 1.

 

RAW, I took this to mean: if you have an item from the second section, you can't take anything from the first.

[Debauchery101]

 

 

where do you see you can't take a Deathwatch Bolter with a shield? The stalker bolter and shotgun you cannot. It basically locks you into only that weapon. Which seems to be a way of preventing a Vet using 2 weapons with SIA

 

I believe the text says something thing close to...any vet, vet sgt or Blackshield can trade in the bolter and power sword for

Shotgun

Stalker bolter

Or pieces of Deathwatch equipment.

The last part is where you can find shields, combi weapons, bolter and melee weapons. Some items you can only choose one of.

Happy to be wrong about this.

 

Deathwatch Veterans come with a Deathwatch boltgun and Power Sword. A Vet can replace the gun and sword with up to 2 items from the Deathwatch Equipment list.

 

The Deathwatch Equipment list is split into 2 sections, a section where you can take 2 items and a section where you can take only 1. The Deathwatch Boltgun is in the section where you can take only 1.

 

RAW, I took this to mean: if you have an item from the second section, you can't take anything from the first.

RAW its specific in the datasheet that when you choose the shotgun or stalker you can't also take other stuff.

 

But the datasheet says you can take 2 items from the list which has some items that Cap off at 1.

[techsoldaten]

RAW its specific in the datasheet that when you choose the shotgun or stalker you can't also take other stuff.

 

But the datasheet says you can take 2 items from the list which has some items that Cap off at 1.

That makes more sense.

 

Guess I'm getting hung up on the wording.

[Syward]

And about what I figured. Deathwatch Bolters are pretty potent, didn't see how combi-plasma outclasses them.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but Deathwatch combi-plasma has the same profile as the Deathwatch Bolters, so taking the combi-plasma lets you have your standard SIA DW Bolter shots, or Plasma, or both in a pinch, which the option of greater firepower from the plasma and the choice of SIA makes it worth it to me.

 

I'm building this force as an all first-born army, so no Primaris units this time. (I already have 4 other all Primaris armies)  the drop pods SS+Combi-Plasma will have 2x Frag Launch vets with them also. and the watch master & librarian will drop with them.

[Black Knight]

I think most people on this forum are trying to say is that we don't usually equip combi-weapons on our troops, mainly because we are so point constrained that we have been forced in previous editions to go with either heavy weapons spread across multiple teams or just going bolters. I still firmly believe in the motto of "Boys before toys" from seventh edition and getting in another few bolters usually works better with SIA, we all remember the Stormbolter drop pods. Now if 8th taught us something though is that if you want a team to do a specific job then go all in on that team to make it as good as possible

 

With regards to the shields its all about trying to sink as much damage into that single model so normally you would just have it standard so that when it is killed you are loosing the minimal amount of points on that single model. Normal practice is to have 2ish shields in a team with basic bolters and then you put all the expensive toys on the other models so that you loose the expensive stuff last. I usually kill off my Sgt after my shields to leave the Frag cannons last, its all about letting the big guns last to the final moment.

 

Finally if you have a drop pod team I would suggest not even trying to put shields on it, it WILL die the coming enemy turn. There aren't enough shields in the army to stop it getting focused so it would be better to spend the points of those shields, on more frag cannons in that team, to deal more damage. Commit to the idea and load up that team with everything because you will get one shooting phase and that's it.

[leth]

This is something that I am really having a hard time with, mainly because I am extremely points restricted since upgrading my proteus is the last thing I spend points on in a list.  

 

Right now I am thinking that I will make them a hybrid unit, with mostly an emphasis on CC ability to help hold the center with my blade guard while also having the ability to teleport out and get where they are needed. 

 

Watch Sgt - boltgun Claw

Blackshield - Hammer, chainsword

2x Veteran - Boltgun, chainsword

2x veteran - Boltgun, chainsword

Terminator - 2x Claw

Vanguard - Claw, Shield

Biker - chainsword

Teleport Homer

 

246 points

 

I dont plan to send it after anything heavy, but with all of those claw attacks getting re-roll wounds they can get a decent volume out.  Especially if I change the chapter tactics to space wolves or blood angels. 

 

Backed up by bladeguard, apothecary, and watchmaster I could see that being a solid middle of the table core focused on survival while also having the potential for striking out. 

 

Other thoughts involve dropping the biker and/or terminator to a regular veteran and using those points for other things but I think they give me a lot of options for allocating wounds. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by leth