Is Plasma a loser in 9th?

[Helias_Tancred]

I was thinking yesterday about wounds caused by weapons in 9th in relation to the increase in marine wounds. This is by no means a rant or fanboy demand for GW but just a thinking point for analysis.

 

Plasma, as described in the lore (stories, novels, etc) usually delivers a fatal hit on marines right? I was thinking would it make sense if most plasma weapons went to a base of 2 wounds? Overcharging could/would increase range? or just increase the strength to say 8 or 9? Or maybe there's another way to play off overcharging without jacking up the wound count?

 

Or maybe plasma is better off how it is in 9th? And thats just the way it has to be in order to support a more realistic rule change of marines having 2 wounds?

 

Just some thoughts. Curious what your various takes are on this subject?

 

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

Plasma needs to overcharge now to kill all flavours of Astartes (except for Death Guard perversely). It is still dangerous, particularly when fired en-mass like Hellblasters and Inceptors. It is probably the most spamable 2D weapon so remains valuable. But now if you want to cut down Marines in any numbers, you have to accept the risk that goes with the reward.

 

Most of my plasma units will still be hitting the table. The only exception is my Long Fangs who have lost their built-in reroll of 1s. They will be swapping their plasma cannons for multi meltas I think.

[Charlo]

Nah, they're fine and representative of their power with 1 damage or 2 damage overcharging.

 

Larger plasma weapons have 2 damage base anyway.

[BitsHammer]

One could argue that Plasma is back on par with older editions when shooting elite infantry, but gained a buff against chaffe since you can so so safer.

 

So I wouldn't call it a loser, it's just not the king of TAC since melta finally got rebalanced.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Fulkes

[MARK0SIAN]

Yeah if you think about plasma it’s stand out points in the lore are the strength and ability to go through armour like a hot knife through butter, not necessarily the raw damage.

 

From a game perspective, marines in general going to 2 wounds was meant to give them a survivability buff. That’s already been lessened by the increase in a lot of stuff to damage 2. If they keep giving D2 to all but the most basic of weapons then it will render the wounds increase largely irrelevant.

[Dark Shepherd]

Overcharging it now is a lot safer though

 

Bolters and errrr chainswords ahemmm probably much more effective in lore too

[Karhedron]

I would say overcharging is riskier since overheats always occur on a natural 1. No more using abilities like Chaplain Litanies or stratagems that add +1 to-Hit to prevent overheats completely.

 

Although I suppose shooting at things with a -1 to-hit penalty is no longer so risky.

[BitsHammer]

I would say overcharging is riskier since overheats always occur on a natural 1. No more using abilities like Chaplain Litanies or stratagems that add +1 to-Hit to prevent overheats completely.

 

Although I suppose shooting at things with a -1 to-hit penalty is no longer so risky.

I'd call that a net gain since you are no longer required to invest in a Chaplain to babysit the unit to protect them from over heating on 1-2s.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Fulkes

[Lukoi]

In upper tier competitive lists for SM at least plasma has become a very common, goto weapon profile, especially when paired with someway to reroll those unmodified ones that might otherwise kill a model.

 

Not sure how anyone would call plasma a loser so far in 9th.

[Vermintide]

If anything, not overcharging is firing on a weaker "safe mode", whereas overcharging is firing at the older "default", where Gets Hot used to always trigger on a 1.

 

Let's be honest, you're overcharging the vast majority of the time, the only ones I generally wouldn't are the assault variant for Hellblasters, which just make super reliable anti-infantry with weight of dice in their favour.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Pop an apothecary with the hellblasters and if one overheats just bring his ass back to life the next turn, so an overheat now and then isn't as big of a deal Edited December 26, 2020 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[sairence]

Larger plasma weapons have 2 damage base anyway.

Hah. Only for Marines. My Guard Plasmacannons, the bigger ones mounted on vehicles, have the same profile as my handheld ones, except for # of shots being heavy D3 instead of rf 1.

[Karhedron]

Marine plasma cannons are still 1D/2D. Only the Heavy Hellblaster variant and the Dreadnought versions are 2D/3D.

[Dark Shepherd]

Macro Plasma Incinerator seems like a winner this edition, especially with change to vehicle move and fire

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Larger plasma weapons have 2 damage base anyway.

Hah. Only for Marines. My Guard Plasmacannons, the bigger ones mounted on vehicles, have the same profile as my handheld ones, except for # of shots being heavy D3 instead of rf 1.

 

i mean it is a marine focused board lol

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Plasma Inceptors are top tier now.

[Indefragable]

The thing is that plasma still absolutely demolishes non-marines and any increase to it's capabilities would make that disparity even more pronounced. 

[Vanger]

Your basic assumption that plasma MUST be overcharged to be effective is false imo. It is still one of the most reliable weapons to cause successfull wounds on almost all profiles. Good range, excellent strength, ungodly AP. No wonder hellblasters are target no. 1.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Marine plasma cannons are still 1D/2D. Only the Heavy Hellblaster variant and the Dreadnought versions are 2D/3D.

The repulsor Executioner can take the 2/3 D plasma as well. They're just a rare sight, in practice I think you'll only see base 2 D plasma on the dreads. Hellblasters really should take the assault variant the 3rd shot is really good.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

Marine plasma cannons are still 1D/2D. Only the Heavy Hellblaster variant and the Dreadnought versions are 2D/3D.

The repulsor Executioner can take the 2/3 D plasma as well. They're just a rare sight, in practice I think you'll only see base 2 D plasma on the dreads. Hellblasters really should take the assault variant the 3rd shot is really good.

 

 

Indeed. I used a ten man hellblaster squad the other day armed with assault plasma incinerators, with a captain and lieutenant marching with them up the board ..... they were champs.

[Snazzy]

The only about plasma in 9th that bothers me is the model being destroyed by overheat.  I preferred 1 mortal wound.

[Dark Shepherd]

The only about plasma in 9th that bothers me is the model being destroyed by overheat. I preferred 1 mortal wound.

Yeah that Id prefer especially on characters, think they over balanced towards the allocating wounds mechanic

[MARK0SIAN]

The only about plasma in 9th that bothers me is the model being destroyed by overheat. I preferred 1 mortal wound.

I go back and forth on this. On one hand it seems harsh to lose a whole 3 wound model like an inceptor for an overheat, especially given the chance of it happening. It’s even worse for characters.

 

But on the other hand the threat of an overheat needs to be serious or else overcharging just becomes a no-brainer choice and, again on an inceptor or similar, the threat of loosing one wound probably wouldn’t make you think twice about overcharging.

 

I think a middle ground where the model takes a mortal wound and the weapon that fired the shot can’t be fired next turn whilst it cools down might be a good way to go. It might cause some issues with wound allocation though so I’m not really sure what the best solution is, however I agree the current method just doesn’t feel right.

[Leonaides]

also, what to do with something like an inceptor who might get 2 overheats - is that both guns out, or just 1? And that's leaving out wound allocation problems.

[MARK0SIAN]

also, what to do with something like an inceptor who might get 2 overheats - is that both guns out, or just 1? And that's leaving out wound allocation problems.

Well exactly, I mean technically you’re meant to roll each weapon separately anyway so in theory you’d know which gun overheated (and yes it may be both if you’re unlucky) but it would slow it down immensely if you were to actually do it.

 

This is the problem in finding a middle ground. One mortal wound isn’t really enough to make it a deterrent to overcharging but removing a whole 3 wound model seems too harsh. However anything in the middle throws up real complications.