Best Elite Jump Pack Unit

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. Was considering on utilizing some Jump Pack Infantry for my army and thats one thing BAs have always been good about. However, when it comes to our 3x options for Elite BA Jump Pack Units, Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, and Vanguard Vets, which out of these 3x have you had success with and how did you run them? Granted Sanguinary Guard are special for obvious reasons, but I would like feedback on all 3x units if possible for more input.

[Vermintide]

SanGuard are top of the pile for sheer damage output, by quite a high margin. They're absolute blenders this edition and frankly I bet their points get bumped up first opportunity GW gets.

 

Death Company are the budget option now, it seems. Tooling them out with hammers and fists brings them out less cost-efficient than SG, so you want to keep it cheap with chainswords, but there is the 6+++ to consider. They also can't do actions or fall back etc, so not as flexible.

 

VanVets are the more durable choice, thanks to their access to storm shields. They're the most versatile because you can kit them out however you like, but you pay for it obviously.

[Karhedron]

I ran DC for most of 8th but now Lemartes has been toned down, I am running my SG and I am very impressed. I run them with a Sanguinary Priest as the 6+++, healing + Resurrection and the ability to kick them into the Assault Doctrine early is awesome.

 

I normally run the Priest as my Warlord to activate Heirs of Azkellon. He really does add so many buffs that you need to ask why NOT run them with a priest? ;)

 

Van Vets look very good on paper although I have not tried them. In many ways they are the most self sufficient choice. While they benefit from HQ support, they don't require it the way other choices do. The best build is 5 man squads with storm shields, 4 lightning claws and a Thunder Hammer on the sergeant. You can run these squads in multiple if you wish.

[Karhedron]

Another suggestion to accompany any of the above units is a Sanguinary Ancient with Wrath of Baal. +2" move on any Jump Pack units is better than it sounds on the smaller boards we now play on. Rather than relying on "Descent of Angels" as we did in 8th, the combo of Wrath of Ball and Icon of the Angel allows us to reliably charge with multiple jump pack units. Also the Wrath of Baal triggers when you move the affected unit. This means that the Sanguinary Ancient can buff a lot of units by hopping down your line midway through the movement phase if you are careful. Alternatively, he can buff the units around him and then jump into the midfield to buff any Jump Pack Death Company that used Forlorn Fury before the first turn. You can pretty much guarantee multiple T1 charges if you wish. While the DC will be unsupported, their shear weight of attacks should make a decent dent and probably a big mess of your opponent's plans. At the very least it will cost him a turn while he stops and cleans the blood off his windscreen while the rest of your army gets into position.

[Diagramdude]

For the Van Vets I agree with Karhedron, TH on the sarge is great and the lightning claw/SS combo on the rest of the guys seems best. 

 

I think you benefit greatly from including one Death Company JP squad with mostly chainswords and 2 or 3 hammers mixed in. It puts heavy pressure your opponent's deployment decisions because of the risk that you go first and move them 24-26" first turn. You can also layer all the buffs on them first turn since your other units usually won't make it into melee T1 (Chapter Master, Blood Chalice, Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius, Chapter Banner). Because of all the buffs you can layer on them, I think larger squads are better. Offensively, that buffs them with a +1 to hit, rerolling hits, exploding 6's to hit, with an extra -1 AP. Then defensively they get a 5++ from Shield and a 5+++ FNP. That usually forces your opponent to dedicate serious resources to removing them while the remaining ~1720 pts of your army is poised to crash home in T2. Finally don't forget that Forlorn Fury can be used defensively if you end up going second. I try to deploy my death company right on the line but within 12" of good obscuring terrain so I can pressure my opponent to backline deploy but still hide the DC if I go second. 

 

Sanguinary Guard have such a ridiculous output near the warlord that I think the best advice is to run them in squads of 4 or 5. Once you go 6+ models, you give enemy plasmaceptors max shots against them. Even without Savage Echoes, 5 of them on the charge is 20 attacks! They really need to stay within the Narthecium aura to help stay alive. It also really helps them to stay in cover wherever possible so you can take 4+'s against AP-3. I would also note that Sanguinary Guard are a perfect complement to running the BA Jump Librarian with Wings and Null Zone. Sanguinary Guard have no issues staying within Null Zone whereas you would need to take great care to split off Van Vets from the libby. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

i posted about this pet peeve in a FB group as well.

'best' anything will be subjective to a lot of things.

what else is in your army? what do you plan on playing against most regularly? pts limits? etc.

a multi-melta might be the best weapon a unit can take in one situation, but not in another situation...the math hammer will change based on what you're facing.

[Pathstrider]

i posted about this pet peeve in a FB group as well.

 

'best' anything will be subjective to a lot of things.

 

what else is in your army? what do you plan on playing against most regularly? pts limits? etc.

 

a multi-melta might be the best weapon a unit can take in one situation, but not in another situation...the math hammer will change based on what you're facing.

 

In general, I agree with your point - but tbf, this is comparing three units that have extremely similar battlefield role/points/options.

 

This is 40k, there are loads of cases of this. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Pathstrider

[Helias_Tancred]

I've been having success with Vanguard Veterans; survivability, resilience, and they can kill anything.

[Karhedron]

Yes, they do lend themselves to certain roles although each unit is flexible enough that they can multi-task.

 

DC have lots of attacks, even in the basic configuration which lends them well to chaff clearing. You can load them out with heavier melee weapons, even Thunder Hammers if you want to tackle tough targets. If you do so, you may want to invest in a Chaplain (preferably Lemartes) for Canticle of Hate.

 

Sanguinary Guard excel at killing elite infantry. With a few fusion pistols and power fists, they can take on heavier targets too.

 

Van Vets are the only option who can pack an Invulnerable save so it is worth exploiting this. While they can be kitted out almost any way you like, the option for Storm Shields makes them a good call for big game hunters. Even big beasts will take a while to chew through their 2+/4++ saves.

[Indefragable]

Sanguinary Guard have such a ridiculous output near the warlord that I think the best advice is to run them in squads of 4 or 5. Once you go 6+ models, you give enemy plasmaceptors max shots against them. Even without Savage Echoes, 5 of them on the charge is 20 attacks! They really need to stay within the Narthecium aura to help stay alive. It also really helps them to stay in cover wherever possible so you can take 4+'s against AP-3. I would also note that Sanguinary Guard are a perfect complement to running the BA Jump Librarian with Wings and Null Zone. Sanguinary Guard have no issues staying within Null Zone whereas you would need to take great care to split off Van Vets from the libby.

Great point.

 

Are there any penalties for # of units you have in 9th? In (early) 8th you were incentives to take as few # of units as possible for a chance at a +1 to going first. Is there anything like that in 9th?

 

Bigger units usually are more efficient for re-rolls and Strategems, but does that really matter as much?

 

I think 2x5 instead of 1x10 for SG could work great

[Leonaides]

Nothing like that any more. Cp/detachment rules do encourage you to fill out detachment slots more than before where possible though.

[Karhedron]

Are there any penalties for # of units you have in 9th? In (early) 8th you were incentives to take as few # of units as possible for a chance at a +1 to going first. Is there anything like that in 9th?

 

Bigger units usually are more efficient for re-rolls and Strategems, but does that really matter as much?

 

I think 2x5 instead of 1x10 for SG could work great

The penalty for big units is the Blast rule so from that point of view, MSU might be better. Of course it is harder to keep multiple squads near the Warlord than just the 1.

[Diagramdude]

You’re very likely to face plasmaceptors at any tournament, and they will mulch a 6+ model SG unit with horrifying efficiency.

[BrotherAetherick]

MSU also works very well with relentless assault. You can trade around 150 points for some of theirs and get 4 points. Losing a big squad of 300 hurts a lot more and is potentially game losing.

 

And yes. Plasmaceptors delete 6+ sanguinary guard, priest or not. Better to have them actually roll for shots and/or split fire.

 

With the way most of the SM and BA strats were nerfed. A lot of our power comes from auras, which affect MSU and 10 mans similarly. 

 

I only use Vanguard Vets in the big block of 10 for when I need to deal with warrior blobs, or want to leverage chapter master/banner buffs to delete 1 unit. Otherwise I generally run MSU for both sang guard and DC (for 1 cp strats) and combat squad the VG vets.

Edited December 30, 2020 by BrotherAetherick

[Diagramdude]

I think it’s good to run DC in a max sized unit because of all of the buffs you can layer on them. +1 to hit, chapter master rerolls, unleash rage and shield of sanguinius makes a 10 man DC unit massively boosts their output.

 

Sanguinary Guard on the other hand really only need to be within 6” of the warlord and getting reroll 1s to be happy campers offensively.

[Indefragable]

I think it’s good to run DC in a max sized unit because of all of the buffs you can layer on them. +1 to hit, chapter master rerolls, unleash rage and shield of sanguinius makes a 10 man DC unit massively boosts their output.

 

Sanguinary Guard on the other hand really only need to be within 6” of the warlord and getting reroll 1s to be happy campers offensively.

 

Right. This is where my head is (now) at as well.

 

MSU/5man squads for SG and VV, 10man blocks for DC (especially to get the most out of Forlorn Fury). 

 

 

Further more, with the standard disclaimer* out of the way, my general mindset is:

 

• Sanguinary Guard: "Queen" on the chessboard, take-all-comers but especially geared toward beating up scary things and/or TEQ and/or other enemy Elites. Of note is they are actually not so good against Dreadnoughts with their -1D.
• Death Company: more about pressure than actual damage output (though they do have that potential). They either die before getting to do anything, or die doing what I want them to. Either way they are a living missile fired at juicy targets. In a 10man squad, 2-3 Power fists and/or Inferno pistols and the rest bolt pistol + chainsword is still the "perfect" formula for 3 editions in a row
• Vanguard Veterans: storm shields. If you're not bringing storm shields on these guys, you better be doubling up on lightning claws. Flying 2+/4++ is what these guys are all about compared to the above two. I see them as tying up enemy units like Dreadnoughts more than hurting them; about survival even more so than the above two. Alternatively, dual LC's gives them 5A each on the charge (6A T3+) with re-rolling To Wound. As @Diagramdude pointed out that's one of the best all-purpose damage dealers in the game. The only thing that keeps them from completely outclassing Sang Guard at the moment is SG's in-built re-rolls and -1 To Hit and the stock D:2 weapons.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Indefragable