Grey Knights vs. Ultramarines 2000pts, The Rematch!

[The Woodsman]

Hello again lads, happy new year to you all! :) 

 

As discussed in the Army List subforum, I've been itching to try out a new list and today I got the chance to do so... against the dreaded Ultramarines! Who the heretic really is in this instance remains unsure, though I'd wager the Grey Knights are about as pure as they get, so... And besides, we all know Guilliman just wants the Imperium to himself ;)

 

The lists were as follows:

 

Grey Knights - Single Battalion / 1 Extra Relic : 11 CP

 

HQ:

 

GMDK (Psilencer, Psycannon, Sword, Edict)

GMDK (WL: Lore Master, Sanctic Shard, Psilencer, Psycannon, Hammer)

Librarian (Warp Shaping, Empyrean Domination, Sword, Artisan Nullifier Matrix)

 

Troops

 

5 Strike Marines (4 Halberds, 1 Sword, Gate)

5 Strike Marines (4 Halberds, 1 Sword, Gate)

10 Terminators (10 Halberds, Hammerhand)

 

Fast Attack

 

5 Interceptors (Falchions, Astral Aim)

5 Interceptors (Falchoins, Astral Aim)

 

Heavy Support

 

Land Raider

Land Raider

 

Ultramarines - Lord of War & Battalion / Extra WL Trait / GMan Bonus : 15 CP

 

Vindicaire Assassin

 

Lord of War

 

Roboute Guilliman (WL)

 

HQ

 

Tigirius (Might of Heroes, Null Zone, Mind War)

Primaris Chaplain (Relic that causes d3 mortals on a failed cast, gives - 1 cast in 18" aura) 

 

Troops

 

3x 5 Intercessors (Bolt Rifles)

10 Intercessors (Bolt Rifles)

 

Elites

 

Primaris Ancient (Adept of the Codex)
 

Fast Attack

 

2 x 3 Outriders

 

Heavy Support

 

2x 5 Hellblasters (Heavy Plasma)

3 Eradicators (Melta Rifles)

 

He was running the same list as last time, so I knew it was going to be a tough one, the synergy in the list is just insane. As this was my first outing with this particular list, I was eager to see how it would pan out. I went for Engage, Attrition and Psychic Ritual (defs a mistake... with few characters all their powers were pretty much needed every turn, I was kind of hoping I could forgo Warp Shaping and Empyrean Dom. for a couple turns, but no...) for secondaries. He took Engage, Bring it Down and the funky UM one, Oath of Moment? No Respite? I forget, but basically its a point if you hold the center, a point if you kill a vehicle/monster and a point if you don't fail a morale (a given with UM, basically). Its like GW just don't want Ultramarines to lose...lol.

 

Mission was Overrun, not really to my advantage, as you need to hold 2 for 5 VP, hold 3 for 10, and holding more is tricky since objectives are set up pretty close to deployment zones. 

 

Here's a picture of the board after deployment: 

 

 

There wasn't much large LoS blocking terrain for me to hide my tanks and Dreads behind, and with so little drops he could easily wait and deploy his heavy guns accordingly to where I placed my vehicles. I backlined them as much as I could and tried to split them up to that he'd have to do the same, I could then redeploy to one flank with a mix of Gate and Edict. I had the Strike Squads and Terminators upstairs. He basically spread out and got ready to move forward and hold the center board, with his Vindicaire hunting for targets on the top of the left-side ruin.

 

Turn One

 

We rolled off and he got first turn. As was to be expected, he rushed forwards with the Outriders and advanced with pretty much all the Intercessors, rolling pretty high and with Guilliman's +1 he got his anti-psyker relic right in the middle of the large ruin, protected by some Intercessors. 

 

He failed to cast Null Zone, but put Might of Heroes on G-Man, otherwise uneventful psychic phase for him.

 

In his shooting phase, the power of the Primarch really shone. He destroyed one Land Raider outright with his opening salvo from one of the Hellblaster squads, and took the second one down to 4 wounds with the other. The Eradictors managed to take a couple wounds off my Warlord. I was already kind of daunted - but not having invul saves on the Raiders hurts, especially against -5 weaponry (seriously...). His Vindicaire took 3 wounds off my Librarian (should have hidden him better), and did a MW to my Land Raider. A bit much, maybe?

 

On my turn, I moved the remaining Raider slightly to hide it from one of his flanks. The Warlord moved forwards towards the right objective. I was planning on Gateing him to the other flank, but in case it failed I wanted him near the objective on the right. The other DK moved forwards, I was hoping to use Edict to get him onto the left-side objective. Here I kind of forgot that you needed 3 objectives for 10 points, my thinking was that I could let one go for a turn while a consolidated on his weaker flank. The Interceptors shuffled a little to remain hidden, I wanted them up my sleeve for a later turn, either to support my Deep Strike assault or to shunt onto free objectives later on. The Librarian shuffled to get out of LoS from the Vindicaire. 

 

My psychic phase was a bit of a disaster. With not much to cast Smites or to shoot with Psybolt on, I decided to stay in Shadows until my next turn. I got a CP back too, so far so good. I then attempted Edict on my DK, which failed - he took a MW. My Warlord then Gated just in front of him, securing that objective. I then went to cast Sanctuary... would you believe that even with a +2 and re-rolling, I still failed? Good thing I'd kept him out of 18" of the Chaplain, which granted I should have done with the other DK. I'd put Heed on the second DK, so at least I had one 3++ set up... 

 

Shooting was a little better, I killed the right flank Outrider unit with a combination of the battered Land Raider and the DK, while my Warlord powered up with Psychic Onslaught and killed the Hellblaster unit on the right flank. Unfortunately, 4 of those Hellblasters got to shoot thanks to his Ancient, and my Warlord was left on a single wound... Yowza. 

 

No charges were made, so we moved on to turn 2. He had scored for Engage, Bring it Down and his UM secondary, while I only scored a few points for Attrition. Not a great start, but I felt I could avoid most of his firepower for a turn, though with my Warlord on 1 Wound, it wouldn't take much to take him out. 

 

End of turn 1:

 

 

 

Turn Two

 

He scored the full 15 on Primary points, then he moved forwards with his remaining Outrider unit, but they didn't really have LoS to anything, nor could they get a charge off, so I felt vindicated in letting that flank go for a turn. His Eradicators also moved, but couldn't get a bead on anything thanks to a combination of LoS blocking terrain and range. His Intercessors on the far left moved forwards (which would open up a drop zone), while the large unit stayed pretty much in the same place. His Hellblasters moved to the left to get some LoS on my Dreadknights, though not all of them could see - again, I felt somewhat satisfied with my movement and placement decisions. While Ultramarines are definitely always going to out-gun us, the way to beat them will definitely be to out-maneuver them (though it isn't always easy!). Guilliman and Tigirius also moved a little to the left. 

 

Psychic was the same deal, Null Zone went off first. He then tried to Mind War my Warlord (sitting in a single wound!), which I promptly denied. He then got a super-smite off, which by spending 3 CP between the Aegis and a re-roll, I managed to deny on a double 6. I knew the GMDK would go down this turn, but the more resources he was forced to put into him, the better chances I had of keeping the second Dreadknight and my (very) battered Land Raider alive. 

 

Somehow, the Warlord managed to soak up some bolter fire from the Intercessors, Guilliman and the Ancient, but he did eventually bite the dust against some Hellblaster fire. However, the second DK was still on his trop bracket, although just.  The Land Raider also survived. Not that it would really do much shooting wise, but I could get lucky with some Lascannon and Heavy Bolter shots, but really I was hoping to score consistent points on Attrition.

 

My turn came along, I only scored the 5 points for holding two objectives. I moved the right-side Interceptors towards the Outriders for a charge, along with the Librarian. The other Interceptors moved slightly, if only to be able to add their fire-power against the large unit of Intercessors, while remaining hidden from other stuff. The Dreadknight moved forwards, looking to get into combat - though there was a big old crater in the way... I brought the Terminators on his home objective on my right, thanks to Dynamic Insertion. He then used a stratagem to shoot at a deep striking unit within 12"... with his Hellblasters. He didn't overcharge, so I spent CP on Redoubtable Defense and only lost two, though it kind of stung. I was then sitting pretty on the objective, with LoS on his Hellblasters, Eradicators and the Intercessors in the ruin to their right. I hesitated on bringing the Strikes in, since I couldn't get both the super-storm bolters on the Termis and 2W smites on my 5-man power-armored units.... in the end I brought them down behind his Vindicaire and Intercessors, hoping to take out the Assassin and maybe get a lucky charge on the Intercessors. In hindsight, I maybe could have waited, keeping the Strikes and Interceptors back and aiming for a Turn 3 Smite Train... 

 

In my psychic phase, I switched to Convergence and got a CP back. I got a few Smites off and killed an Intercessor between the Strikes and took a wound off of the big Intercessor unit with the GMDK. I was unfortunately out of range for a Hammerhand from the Termis onto the the Interceptors looking at charging the bikes, even with the Powerful Adept strat. In hindsight (and a couple of you suggested this in the list discussion), I think a second Sanctuary on the Termis would have been key in their survival. Since the list aims to be durable and mobile, the +1 Invul might be better than the +1 to wound, especially with the two GMDK being able to kill big stuff in combat. 

 

My shooting phase... this is where it had to go down. If I could get rid of the Eradicators and the Hellblasters, I might be able to hang on for another turn and start catching up on points. I started with the Strikes, who killed the Vindicaire and a couple of Intercessors from the flanking unit between the two units. The Interceptors and Librarian fired at the Eradicators, my idea was that if I could get lucky and remove them before the Terminators shot, I would be free to split between the Hellblasters and the Intercessors to the Terminators' right. It unfortunately didn't work out, I probably should have shot at the bikes to soften them up before a charge... 4W at T5 is quite a bit to chew through for falchions... This is where I made a mistake - I fired the GMDK before the Termis, and I fired him into the Intercessors. My thinking being that I didn't want him getting nuked in my own turn if he killed some Hellblasters, or that his Hellblasters could shoot my Terminators on my turn (twice lol seriously...). I killed a couple of Primaris, not having the CP for both Psybolt and Psychic Onslaught. The Terminators then split their fire as such: 3 into the Hellblasters, and 5 into the Eradicators. LoS was a bit of an issue, and besides I figured that between Fury of the Proven and Psybolt, 12 shots should deal with the Hellblasters, or at the very least cripple them severely. I rolled against the Eradicators first, and completely eradicated them (pun intended). Unfortunately, I kind of wiffed against the Hellblasters, and only killed two. 

 

In the charge phase, both the Interceptors and the Librarian got into the bikes, while the Strikes failed to charge the Intercessors. I thought about charging the big Intercessor squad with the GMDK, but between the crater and the threat of overwatch, I decided against it. In the end, the bikes took out 2 Interceptors as they came in. I made (another) mistake here, and fought with the Librarian first, only taking a couple of wounds off a bike. They then cut down the Interceptors, shutting down my Attrition points. 

 

It was looking pretty bleak already, but if I could weather the following shooting phase and survive Guilliman charging the Terminators, I might be able to claw it back over then next couple of turns. I got 2 points for Engage...

 

End of turn 2: 

 

 

 

Turn Three

 

Pretty much the "nail in the coffin" turn for me... 

 

He scored 15 on Primary again, plus last turn's points for holding the center of the board and not failing morale... fingers crossed for such a freebie secondary in our 9th edition codex! 

 

He didn't move much, mainly Guiliman and Tigiruis went towards the Terminators, and the Intercessors on the right towards the Strikes. Psychic phase was pretty much the same, Null Zone and Might of Heroes on Guilliman. In the shooting phase, he used Scions of Guilliman and Rapide Fire on the big Intercessor unit, wiping out one Strike Squad and leaving the other on 2 models. He shot at the Terminators with the far right Intercessors, but failed to kill anything. His Hellblasters and Guilliman took out another two Terminators. He then charged with Guilliman, and beheaded all six. Even with Sanctuary on, his Null Zone just shut them down completely, leaving them on 6+ armor saves... My best hope would have been to have 2 CP for Transhuman, but it could also not have made much difference, and I had to use those CP in my own turn since he got to shoot at me twice with his Hellblasters. His far left Intercessor unit charged the Strikes but failed to kill them, and lost a dude in return. The Librarian killed a couple of bikes, but there's only so much 3, d3 damage attacks can do against T5, 4W models. I told my mate I'd play my turn just for fun and to have played an equal number of turns, but I knew my fate had been sealed. 

 

I shunted the Interceptors behind Tigirius and the Hellblasters, aiming for the moral victory of decapitating the blighted psyker. The Strikes remained in combat, as did the Librarian. The Land Raider (somehow still alive), rumbled its engines in dignified rage. The Interceptors took a couple of wounds off of the Ancient, and the Land Raider killed an Intercessor, I think... it also might have done diddly squat, I forget. The Interceptors failed to charge, the Strikes failed to kill their opposing Intercessor... at least the Librarian finished off the last bike, hurrah! We called it there, with the Ultramarines on 40-something points and me on 15 or so. 

 

End of turn 3:

 

 

Quite the thrashing, in the end! That being said, I really did enjoy how my list played out, despite getting hammered so hard in the first turn. The recurring theme for me throughout the game was telling myself "how does this army have a great answer to everything"... But, I'm not one to whinge against overpowered armies, in fact I quite enjoy the challenge of trying to beat them. If we ran the same scenario again, I think I'd keep the same list and swap Psychic Ritual for Assassinate and try and work at his characters. The truth is that once those are down, the army loses its reliability. Granted, its going to be tough going for those characters, but, maybe its worth a punt! I'd also try and maneuvre my deep striking in a way that he can't get a free round of shooting at me, and I'd have to see what could be done to protect my vehicles turn one. You can see from the pictures that there wasn't much large LoS blocking terrain however. 

 

Let me know what you guys think, what could I have done differently, what you might change with the list considering the game's outcome, if you have your own experiences against Ultramarines that could relate to mine, etc. T

 

In any event, thanks for reading, and hopefully I can get some more reports up soon, perhaps against Death Guard next, and definitely a grudge match against the cursed Ultramarines!

[Weltbild]

Excellent writeup and a fun read! Sounds like you had it rough. Your game seems to pretty much illustrate, how we‘re having to fight from behind in most games - even more so going second.

 

I often find myself banking on things to go right with minimum commitment of resources. That rarely worked so far. Perhaps the same could be said when you deepstruck your terminators and strikes but split their focus in T2 or when fighting their bikes? (It‘s hard for me to judge from the report only) The smaller mistakes are also a thing, they just seem so unforgiving to us.

 

The second Land Raider probably also didn‘t get it‘s points back, I assume.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Weltbild

[Gnomeo]

Great bat rep! Am glad to hear that despite the thrashing you enjoyed the game. From the looks of the board it looks like there was a lot of fire lanes and like you pointed out probably not quite enough los blocking terrain. With regards to deployment it looks like you ended up quite central, and were unable to hide much. Not sure if you could have put a raider behind each los in your deployment and then tried to hide the gmndk as much as possible.

 

Like you said I think ritual was sub optimal.

 

As for list I would say play it a few more times to get a better feel. One thing I would do is make the interceptors a 10man unit as you can combat squad them if you want. But this also gives you the option of another 10man unit that can have psybolt. You put edict on aswell and .....

 

In terms of overall strategy it looks like your friend relied on dominating the centre with his blob of guiliman and friends then us outriders and intercessors for the flanks. In this situation I think a refused flank deployment could work well and then heavily focus on his flanking units. The reason for this is once the out riders die you can easily out manoeuvre him as you identified

[The Woodsman]

Excellent writeup and a fun read! Sounds like you had it rough. Your game seems to pretty much illustrate, how we‘re having to fight from behind in most games - even more so going second.

 

I often find myself banking on things to go right with minimum commitment of resources. That rarely worked so far. Perhaps the same could be said when you deepstruck your terminators and strikes but split their focus in T2 or when fighting their bikes? (It‘s hard for me to judge from the report only) The smaller mistakes are also a thing, they just seem so unforgiving to us.

 

The second Land Raider probably also didn‘t get it‘s points back, I assume.

 

I think its safe to say neither Land Raider really made its points! With the lack of big, scary targets against them they definitely don't shine so well, the idea is that they can hold backfield objectives and draw fire away from the GMDKs, while supplying some anti-tank when needed. Of course against Primaris their HB and even the lascannons do come in handy. Thanks for the input!

 

Great bat rep! Am glad to hear that despite the thrashing you enjoyed the game. From the looks of the board it looks like there was a lot of fire lanes and like you pointed out probably not quite enough los blocking terrain. With regards to deployment it looks like you ended up quite central, and were unable to hide much. Not sure if you could have put a raider behind each los in your deployment and then tried to hide the gmndk as much as possible.

 

Like you said I think ritual was sub optimal.

 

As for list I would say play it a few more times to get a better feel. One thing I would do is make the interceptors a 10man unit as you can combat squad them if you want. But this also gives you the option of another 10man unit that can have psybolt. You put edict on aswell and .....

 

In terms of overall strategy it looks like your friend relied on dominating the centre with his blob of guiliman and friends then us outriders and intercessors for the flanks. In this situation I think a refused flank deployment could work well and then heavily focus on his flanking units. The reason for this is once the out riders die you can easily out manoeuvre him as you identified

 

I definitely have to rethink how I use terrain. I got so used to ITC terrain rules that I'm kind of struggling to adapt (since I don't really play that often either). Agreed that the board wasn't really to my advantage... lots of small LoS blocking, but not much I could hide my big stuff behind bar the central ruin, and he could easily get firing lanes from both sides of that. 

 

I think I will combine the 2 5-man Interceptors next time, I usually run them as such, using Astral/Edict/Psybolt to pull off an turn 1 nuke while keeping them around for another turn. I think I was hoping I could play the long-game with "MSU" power armor units, going for a turn 3 Smite train - we all see how that worked out. Maybe next time I'd put a Land Raider down early, forcing him to commit some of his anti-tank, and deploy the rest on the opposite flank, possibly using a Gate to re-deploy the llonely Raider? What do you think?

[Gnomeo]

 

 

Excellent writeup and a fun read! Sounds like you had it rough. Your game seems to pretty much illustrate, how we‘re having to fight from behind in most games - even more so going second.

 

I often find myself banking on things to go right with minimum commitment of resources. That rarely worked so far. Perhaps the same could be said when you deepstruck your terminators and strikes but split their focus in T2 or when fighting their bikes? (It‘s hard for me to judge from the report only) The smaller mistakes are also a thing, they just seem so unforgiving to us.

 

The second Land Raider probably also didn‘t get it‘s points back, I assume.

I think its safe to say neither Land Raider really made its points! With the lack of big, scary targets against them they definitely don't shine so well, the idea is that they can hold backfield objectives and draw fire away from the GMDKs, while supplying some anti-tank when needed. Of course against Primaris their HB and even the lascannons do come in handy. Thanks for the input!

Great bat rep! Am glad to hear that despite the thrashing you enjoyed the game. From the looks of the board it looks like there was a lot of fire lanes and like you pointed out probably not quite enough los blocking terrain. With regards to deployment it looks like you ended up quite central, and were unable to hide much. Not sure if you could have put a raider behind each los in your deployment and then tried to hide the gmndk as much as possible.

 

Like you said I think ritual was sub optimal.

 

As for list I would say play it a few more times to get a better feel. One thing I would do is make the interceptors a 10man unit as you can combat squad them if you want. But this also gives you the option of another 10man unit that can have psybolt. You put edict on aswell and .....

 

In terms of overall strategy it looks like your friend relied on dominating the centre with his blob of guiliman and friends then us outriders and intercessors for the flanks. In this situation I think a refused flank deployment could work well and then heavily focus on his flanking units. The reason for this is once the out riders die you can easily out manoeuvre him as you identified

I definitely have to rethink how I use terrain. I got so used to ITC terrain rules that I'm kind of struggling to adapt (since I don't really play that often either). Agreed that the board wasn't really to my advantage... lots of small LoS blocking, but not much I could hide my big stuff behind bar the central ruin, and he could easily get firing lanes from both sides of that.

 

I think I will combine the 2 5-man Interceptors next time, I usually run them as such, using Astral/Edict/Psybolt to pull off an turn 1 nuke while keeping them around for another turn. I think I was hoping I could play the long-game with "MSU" power armor units, going for a turn 3 Smite train - we all see how that worked out. Maybe next time I'd put a Land Raider down early, forcing him to commit some of his anti-tank, and deploy the rest on the opposite flank, possibly using a Gate to re-deploy the llonely Raider? What do you think?

I think thats certainly a good way of doing it. I honestly think deployment is one of the biggest phases of the game as how someone deploys doesn't just effect your plan but can effect your opponents.

 

With the interceptors thats exactly what I do. Then normally on turn 2 or 3 I use the combat squad stratagem on them to either get more smites or for secondary objectives like line breaker or repair teleport hers etc.

[The Woodsman]

@Gnomeo I wholeheartedly agree about deployment, its definitely a crucial part of the game. 

 

I'll give that a go, with the Interceptors - I never really thought about the Combat Squad strat... but it could for sure have good use if I can keep the squad at full capacity for a turn or two.