Dread list - are dreadknights back?

[Archadeus]

Hey guys new to the forum, glad to see some consistent positive/constructive posts here. Hard to say the same for others *cough* Facebook *cough* so I'd like to start by sharing a list with my 2 favorite underated (in my mind) units.

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [114 PL, 1,996pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 220pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Augurium Scrolls, Dreadfist, Edict Imperator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Daemon Greathammer, Warlord

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 235pts]: Dreadfist, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctic Shard, Vortex of Doom

 

Librarian [6 PL, 105pts]: Artisan Nullifier Matrix, Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

. Nemesis Warding Stave

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [14 PL, 200pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 9x Grey Knight (Sword): 9x Nemesis Force Sword, 9x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 197pts]: Hammerhand

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Sword

. 3x Terminator (Sword): 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter

 

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 197pts]: Hammerhand

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Sword

. 3x Terminator (Sword): 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter

 

Terminator Squad [11 PL, 197pts]: Hammerhand

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Sword

. 3x Terminator (Sword): 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: Armoured Resilience

. Nemesis Force Sword

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [14 PL, 230pts]: Astral Aim

. 9x Interceptor (Sword): 9x Nemesis Force Sword, 9x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Interceptor Squad [7 PL, 115pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Interceptor (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Interceptor Squad [7 PL, 115pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Interceptor (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

++ Total: [114 PL, 1,996pts] ++

 

My thoughts here moral wound spam alpha strike. Dreads move up early with interceptors, pull out a moral wound spam shooting backline targets and charging what's left. Terms come in turn 2 add to the moral spam and grab/reinforce objectives. Strikes come in turn 3 for another vortex bomb and possibly psybolt volley/ or combat squad them for more board presence. Ancient/apothecary babysit backline with terms or edict GMDK if needed. Let me know what you think,and don't hold back.

[Skywrath]

Welcome to the Halls of Titan, neophyte! Always nice to see more Grey Knights joining our stretch of the woods. Regarding your list two things - 

 

First - VERY solid list, do I have your permission to copy that? That being said, (and the Woodsman will kill me for this), I'm not sold on interceptors. 2 units max, I'd maybe a techmarine and split this into two patrols so you have some support with your NDK's. Also give both of them Greatswords - You still would be wounding on 3's for T8 units such as Repulsors, and 2's otherwise. Plus this is D6 damage, instead of D3 or 3 flat (don't remember which). It's also worth considering giving those Interceptors Vortex of Doom. Give the Apothecary a halberd - S5 in a Gravis marine meta is still better on wounding on 4's instead of 3's. With the extra points from dropping one interceptor squad, you could afford to give your Apothecary a hammer.

Maybe it's also making your Ancient your WL with the relic and trait, as to not put all the eggs in one basket. The one thing this list is really missing is something with a MM equivalent, such as a Dreadnought. Other than that, I like the list a lot. 

 

Second - there is a sub-forum where list discussions go - I'll ask Lunkhead to move this. 

 

Other than that, welcome to the forum, and hope we see more of you

 

EDIT: Just want to add - NDK's are in a good spot at the moment, and with the recent points decrease announced yesterday. Going with this list will definitely be a good idea, if your meta is competitive.

 

EDIT n2: Replace those swords with halberds - see my Gravis argument. Also, I would consider taking psilencers over psycannons, but at that point, that's a personal preference.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Skywrath

[Archadeus]

I appreciate your input good sir. Yes of course you can, please tell me how it works out and how you played it! To respond I'll tell you the things that you brought up that I reject and the things I agree with.

 

First: I'm sorry but interceptors are one of the best units we have imo, their mobility T1 shunting or not is absolutely invaluable in 9th. And being able to move a quarter of my army wherever I want feels so good plus having 3/4 squads in smite range turn one is just too juicy. I like the thought on the tech marine bit there's no possible way he can keep up with my dreads seeing as they will be utilizing all the mobility spells to keep up with the interceptors.Not to mention I'm already spending 3 cp on relics to really hammer home my strengths. The hammer does hit on 3s but since he has scrolls(with the dread strat) so it evens out. Also the hammer is higher ap so no saves on vehicles. plus D 6 MIN 3 damage which means no serious whiffing on damage. Also giving my gmdk vortex means I get +3 to my cast with a rerroll making it extremely hard to fail and making a super vortex a more realistic possibly going off 1/4 times. And that's if Im not rolling on 3 dice. Im not a fan of that load out, honestly i take the ancient as a defensive buffing/holding character and I don't agree with throwing him into combat to give your opponent more abor points. Especially now that it's been FAQ'd and might not be so easily maxed. The real killer for me is the realization that he only gives MODELS +1 attack within 6 which kills his utility for me.

I do heavily agree heavy fire power is missing but I'm hoping to make up for that in mobility and mortal wounds. Im a big fan of the melta dreads after watching the spider pull them out twice. But I don't have room for it in this list. I don't think taking one would do me any good without redundancies.

 

Second- oh right I knew that

[Gnomeo]

Welcome brother!

 

I cant help but notice there is no sanctuary in the list which really helps the GMNDK.

Nice picks with relics however I would drop it down to 2 relics I think 3cp is too much to spend considering how hungry for cp we are.

 

Interceptors I agree 100% are one of are best units.

 

In the description you mentioned smite spam quite a bit. With out a brother captain this leads me to think play style os very aggressive. It may be worth looking to give the apothecary inner fire and put armoured resilience on the ancient. Further on psychic powers is there is a lot o hammerhand maybe swapping one to sanctuary or gate may help to keep options open.

 

I terms of play one of my favourite tricks is with interceptors. Hide behind obscuring. In the movement phase you move in front. Psychic phase cast edict. And use steady advance and psybolt ammo. For 40 s6 -1 2dmg shots. Then with the movement put them back behind obscuring.

 

Looks like the list would be a lot of fun.

[Skywrath]

I appreciate your input good sir. Yes of course you can, please tell me how it works out and how you played it! To respond I'll tell you the things that you brought up that I reject and the things I agree with.

 

First: I'm sorry but interceptors are one of the best units we have imo, their mobility T1 shunting or not is absolutely invaluable in 9th.

That they are, however I personally gravitated towards more swingier units such as the psilencer purgations. So this is pretty much a preference thing.

 

And being able to move a quarter of my army wherever I want feels so good plus having 3/4 squads in smite range turn one is just too juicy. I like the thought on the tech marine bit there's no possible way he can keep up with my dreads seeing as they will be utilizing all the mobility spells to keep up with the interceptors. 

 

Gate of Infinity springs to mind. You could also take a razorback with twin lascannons to transport him with the GMNDK's, or putting him in strategic reserves. I'm currently playing with an idea where a techmarine with the LoreMaster trait takes the role of the librarian for more synergy. Theoretically, you don't need to change tides every turn, so he's just there casting Empyrian Domination. You could even go with an idea of Empyric surge, and one of the NDK's knowing Purge Soul/Inner Fire/Vortex of Doom. The Techmarine with the relic can heal a maximum of 6 wounds, so taking him with perhaps 3 x Ven Dreads could be an idea. Add strike squads/terminators if necessary, but that's just one of the chains of ideas I have - think spider's more recent list but improved!

 

Not to mention I'm already spending 3 cp on relics to really hammer home my strengths.

 

The hammer does hit on 3s but since he has scrolls(with the dread strat) so it evens out. Also the hammer is higher ap so no saves on vehicles. plus D 6 MIN 3 damage which means no serious whiffing on damage. Also giving my gmdk vortex means I get +3 to my cast with a rerroll making it extremely hard to fail and making a super vortex a more realistic possibly going off 1/4 times. And that's if Im not rolling on 3 dice.

 

The sword with the relic would do more damage because of the swinginginess of the D6 sword compared to the D3 hammer. That and the sword is -4 compared to the hammers -3. Then do you really need the S14, when it still wounds on 3 against T8? Sword's superior - as S10 is more than enough.

 

Im not a fan of that load out, honestly i take the ancient as a defensive buffing/holding character and I don't agree with throwing him into combat to give your opponent more abor points. Especially now that it's been FAQ'd and might not be so easily maxed. The real killer for me is the realization that he only gives MODELS +1 attack within 6 which kills his utility for me.

I do heavily agree heavy fire power is missing but I'm hoping to make up for that in mobility and mortal wounds. Im a big fan of the melta dreads after watching the spider pull them out twice. But I don't have room for it in this list. I don't think taking one would do me any good without redundancies.

 

Not sure whether 2 MW outweight a MM, but discussion for another time.

 

Second- oh right I knew that

Don't worry I'll be sticking around and putting my 2 cents in every now and then.

 

I agree heavily, I really enjoy playing them and now that they don't get -1 to hit AND can shoot into combat. Not to mention can hide much better with obscuring rules. Also the point drops on their weapons is pretty insignificant. I guess I'll take a psycannon on my ancient?

 

Could be worth it if you have the extra points, but I find the storm-bolter and falchion is more than enough.

 

Yeah I have all halberds I just don't ever feel like changing it because it doesn't change the points. Im a massive fan of psycannons, ever since convergence they are really good. They are alot more consistent for me, the lack of ap on the Psilencers is garbage more often than not. Only paired well with bring down the beast or onslaught both of which don't work in this list. Really good against deamons but in an imperium heavy local meta I value the S8 -1 flat damage alot more.

 

I believe there was a discussion a while back regarding psycannons and psilencers and which one is better. Personally, I think psilencers are better because with convergence you have a potential D3+1 damage, on top of being buffed to S6 -2AP (with a Chaplain litany) with 6. The psycannon can only be buffed to S9 -3, 2 damage with 4 shots. Seeing how you only need S6 to wound on 3's, regarding T5 units and a D2 psycannon can't kill a 3W model reliably, that's why I advocate for the psilencers. Regarding it's High S, High AP and the potential arguments for vehicles, we have better options in a form of a lascannons/MM on a Dreadnought/LR to do the job just as well, without burning CP to do so. So TLDR: Psilencers are better.

 

In blue.

 

EDIT: Thanks Lunkhead!

Edited January 8, 2021 by Skywrath

[Weltbild]

@Skywrath: You might want to check the NDK‘s Nemesis Daemon Greathammer again. It is S12, AP-4, DD6 (minimum of 3), -1 to hit roll.

 

Due to the sword‘s swingy nature, the hammer is probably better. But the sword is usually good enough.

 

Here‘s some mathhammer for GMNDKs (from January 2020, though): https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-grey-knight-numerics/

[Archadeus]

Welcome brother!

 

I cant help but notice there is no sanctuary in the list which really helps the GMNDK.

Nice picks with relics however I would drop it down to 2 relics I think 3cp is too much to spend considering how hungry for cp we are.

 

This is a good point, ill probably put sanctuary on the ancient to help keep my warlord alive first turn when he gates/vortex. This is true but i think without paladins in the list i think i should be able to sustain my cp with 2 coming in a turn.

Interceptors I agree 100% are one of are best units.

 

In the description you mentioned smite spam quite a bit. With out a brother captain this leads me to think play style os very aggressive. It may be worth looking to give the apothecary inner fire and put armoured resilience on the ancient. Further on psychic powers is there is a lot o hammerhand maybe swapping one to sanctuary or gate may help to keep options open.

 

Yes extremely aggressive mid board control escalation list. Im keeping things simple seeing as im going to have most my army where i want them t2 and most of them are going to be smiting. i should have a gate left with the interceptor providing i didnt throw both of them away and giving the ancient sanctuary should mitigate this. The inner fire apothecary is interesting but its a cp tank imo and if hes sitting in the backline with inner fire its a waste of a power.

 

I terms of play one of my favourite tricks is with interceptors. Hide behind obscuring. In the movement phase you move in front. Psychic phase cast edict. And use steady advance and psybolt ammo. For 40 s6 -1 2dmg shots. Then with the movement put them back behind obscuring.

 

Yes this is something i cant wait to abuse if i dont have to use it on my shooty GMDK.

 

Looks like the list would be a lot of fun.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Archadeus

[Archadeus]

 

I appreciate your input good sir. Yes of course you can, please tell me how it works out and how you played it! To respond I'll tell you the things that you brought up that I reject and the things I agree with.

 

First: I'm sorry but interceptors are one of the best units we have imo, their mobility T1 shunting or not is absolutely invaluable in 9th.

That they are, however I personally gravitated towards more swingier units such as the psilencer purgations. So this is pretty much a preference thing.

 

And being able to move a quarter of my army wherever I want feels so good plus having 3/4 squads in smite range turn one is just too juicy. I like the thought on the tech marine bit there's no possible way he can keep up with my dreads seeing as they will be utilizing all the mobility spells to keep up with the interceptors. 

 

Gate of Infinity springs to mind. You could also take a razorback with twin lascannons to transport him with the GMNDK's, or putting him in strategic reserves. I'm currently playing with an idea where a techmarine with the LoreMaster trait takes the role of the librarian for more synergy. Theoretically, you don't need to change tides every turn, so he's just there casting Empyrian Domination. You could even go with an idea of Empyric surge, and one of the NDK's knowing Purge Soul/Inner Fire/Vortex of Doom. The Techmarine with the relic can heal a maximum of 6 wounds, so taking him with perhaps 3 x Ven Dreads could be an idea. Add strike squads/terminators if necessary, but that's just one of the chains of ideas I have - think spider's more recent list but improved!

 

Not to mention I'm already spending 3 cp on relics to really hammer home my strengths.

 

The hammer does hit on 3s but since he has scrolls(with the dread strat) so it evens out. Also the hammer is higher ap so no saves on vehicles. plus D 6 MIN 3 damage which means no serious whiffing on damage. Also giving my gmdk vortex means I get +3 to my cast with a rerroll making it extremely hard to fail and making a super vortex a more realistic possibly going off 1/4 times. And that's if Im not rolling on 3 dice.

 

The sword with the relic would do more damage because of the swinginginess of the D6 sword compared to the D3 hammer. That and the sword is -4 compared to the hammers -3. Then do you really need the S14, when it still wounds on 3 against T8? Sword's superior - as S10 is more than enough.

 

Im sorry sir but i think you are confused. The hammer is D6 min 3 dmg.  And the hammer is -4, the sword is -3. So like i was saying its not the strength im going after with the hammer.

 

Im not a fan of that load out, honestly i take the ancient as a defensive buffing/holding character and I don't agree with throwing him into combat to give your opponent more abor points. Especially now that it's been FAQ'd and might not be so easily maxed. The real killer for me is the realization that he only gives MODELS +1 attack within 6 which kills his utility for me.

I do heavily agree heavy fire power is missing but I'm hoping to make up for that in mobility and mortal wounds. Im a big fan of the melta dreads after watching the spider pull them out twice. But I don't have room for it in this list. I don't think taking one would do me any good without redundancies.

 

Not sure whether 2 MW outweight a MM, but discussion for another time.

 

actually taking out the strikes and one squad of interceptors for 2 multi dreads doesnt sound too bad

 

Second- oh right I knew that

Don't worry I'll be sticking around and putting my 2 cents in every now and then.

 

I agree heavily, I really enjoy playing them and now that they don't get -1 to hit AND can shoot into combat. Not to mention can hide much better with obscuring rules. Also the point drops on their weapons is pretty insignificant. I guess I'll take a psycannon on my ancient?

 

Could be worth it if you have the extra points, but I find the storm-bolter and falchion is more than enough.

 

I was referencing the weapons point drop for the ndks which is 5 each. which is pretty much the only change i saw. Oh and possibly we can take the incinerator for free on GMDK

 

Yeah I have all halberds I just don't ever feel like changing it because it doesn't change the points. Im a massive fan of psycannons, ever since convergence they are really good. They are alot more consistent for me, the lack of ap on the Psilencers is garbage more often than not. Only paired well with bring down the beast or onslaught both of which don't work in this list. Really good against deamons but in an imperium heavy local meta I value the S8 -1 flat damage alot more.

 

I believe there was a discussion a while back regarding psycannons and psilencers and which one is better. Personally, I think psilencers are better because with convergence you have a potential D3+1 damage, on top of being buffed to S6 -2AP (with a Chaplain litany) with 6. The psycannon can only be buffed to S9 -3, 2 damage with 4 shots. Seeing how you only need S6 to wound on 3's, regarding T5 units and a D2 psycannon can't kill a 3W model reliably, that's why I advocate for the psilencers. Regarding it's High S, High AP and the potential arguments for vehicles, we have better options in a form of a lascannons/MM on a Dreadnought/LR to do the job just as well, without burning CP to do so. So TLDR: Psilencers are better.

 

Yeah i get what your saying but ill have to respectfully disagree. psilencers are a resource sink, landraiders are aweful atm. but the dreadnaught argument is comepletely sound. I had points left over so i put psycannons in and i think unbuffed they are much better. Not that this list is relying on shooting, Psychic  and melee are my bread and butter here. Positioning and target prio is what im really worried about.

 

In blue.

 

EDIT: Thanks Lunkhead!

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Archadeus

[Gnomeo]

I agree inner fire combo is a large cp sink and generally probably not worth it. however I think having that option in your list may be worth it for playing against vehicle heavy lists. Gives the option without any significant changes to the list itself. Just a thought.

[Archadeus]

Very solid point actually, especially considering I'm up against a vehicle spam gaurd list Sunday. I'll give it some thought

[Skywrath]

 

 

I appreciate your input good sir. Yes of course you can, please tell me how it works out and how you played it! To respond I'll tell you the things that you brought up that I reject and the things I agree with.

 

First: I'm sorry but interceptors are one of the best units we have imo, their mobility T1 shunting or not is absolutely invaluable in 9th.

That they are, however I personally gravitated towards more swingier units such as the psilencer purgations. So this is pretty much a preference thing.

 

And being able to move a quarter of my army wherever I want feels so good plus having 3/4 squads in smite range turn one is just too juicy. I like the thought on the tech marine bit there's no possible way he can keep up with my dreads seeing as they will be utilizing all the mobility spells to keep up with the interceptors. 

 

Gate of Infinity springs to mind. You could also take a razorback with twin lascannons to transport him with the GMNDK's, or putting him in strategic reserves. I'm currently playing with an idea where a techmarine with the LoreMaster trait takes the role of the librarian for more synergy. Theoretically, you don't need to change tides every turn, so he's just there casting Empyrian Domination. You could even go with an idea of Empyric surge, and one of the NDK's knowing Purge Soul/Inner Fire/Vortex of Doom. The Techmarine with the relic can heal a maximum of 6 wounds, so taking him with perhaps 3 x Ven Dreads could be an idea. Add strike squads/terminators if necessary, but that's just one of the chains of ideas I have - think spider's more recent list but improved!

 

Not to mention I'm already spending 3 cp on relics to really hammer home my strengths.

 

The hammer does hit on 3s but since he has scrolls(with the dread strat) so it evens out. Also the hammer is higher ap so no saves on vehicles. plus D 6 MIN 3 damage which means no serious whiffing on damage. Also giving my gmdk vortex means I get +3 to my cast with a rerroll making it extremely hard to fail and making a super vortex a more realistic possibly going off 1/4 times. And that's if Im not rolling on 3 dice.

 

The sword with the relic would do more damage because of the swinginginess of the D6 sword compared to the D3 hammer. That and the sword is -4 compared to the hammers -3. Then do you really need the S14, when it still wounds on 3 against T8? Sword's superior - as S10 is more than enough.

 

Im sorry sir but i think you are confused. The hammer is D6 min 3 dmg.  And the hammer is -4, the sword is -3. So like i was saying its not the strength im going after with the hammer.

 

Im not a fan of that load out, honestly i take the ancient as a defensive buffing/holding character and I don't agree with throwing him into combat to give your opponent more abor points. Especially now that it's been FAQ'd and might not be so easily maxed. The real killer for me is the realization that he only gives MODELS +1 attack within 6 which kills his utility for me.

I do heavily agree heavy fire power is missing but I'm hoping to make up for that in mobility and mortal wounds. Im a big fan of the melta dreads after watching the spider pull them out twice. But I don't have room for it in this list. I don't think taking one would do me any good without redundancies.

 

Not sure whether 2 MW outweight a MM, but discussion for another time.

 

actually taking out the strikes and one squad of interceptors for 2 multi dreads doesnt sound too bad

 

Second- oh right I knew that

Don't worry I'll be sticking around and putting my 2 cents in every now and then.

 

I agree heavily, I really enjoy playing them and now that they don't get -1 to hit AND can shoot into combat. Not to mention can hide much better with obscuring rules. Also the point drops on their weapons is pretty insignificant. I guess I'll take a psycannon on my ancient?

 

Could be worth it if you have the extra points, but I find the storm-bolter and falchion is more than enough.

 

I was referencing the weapons point drop for the ndks which is 5 each. which is pretty much the only change i saw. Oh and possibly we can take the incinerator for free on GMDK

 

Yeah I have all halberds I just don't ever feel like changing it because it doesn't change the points. Im a massive fan of psycannons, ever since convergence they are really good. They are alot more consistent for me, the lack of ap on the Psilencers is garbage more often than not. Only paired well with bring down the beast or onslaught both of which don't work in this list. Really good against deamons but in an imperium heavy local meta I value the S8 -1 flat damage alot more.

 

I believe there was a discussion a while back regarding psycannons and psilencers and which one is better. Personally, I think psilencers are better because with convergence you have a potential D3+1 damage, on top of being buffed to S6 -2AP (with a Chaplain litany) with 6. The psycannon can only be buffed to S9 -3, 2 damage with 4 shots. Seeing how you only need S6 to wound on 3's, regarding T5 units and a D2 psycannon can't kill a 3W model reliably, that's why I advocate for the psilencers. Regarding it's High S, High AP and the potential arguments for vehicles, we have better options in a form of a lascannons/MM on a Dreadnought/LR to do the job just as well, without burning CP to do so. So TLDR: Psilencers are better.

 

Yeah i get what your saying but ill have to respectfully disagree. psilencers are a resource sink, landraiders are aweful atm. but the dreadnaught argument is comepletely sound. I had points left over so i put psycannons in and i think unbuffed they are much better. Not that this list is relying on shooting, Psychic  and melee are my bread and butter here. Positioning and target prio is what im really worried about.

 

In blue.

 

EDIT: Thanks Lunkhead!

 

 

 

I apologise, you are correct. I think I might have been getting this confused with demon hammers and power swords (Kaldors' sword) more specifically. Disregard that.

 

Psilencers might be a resource sink, but you can use that to your advantage. Chaplain, Purgation Squad with psilencers, and Astral Aim with Convergence. Trust me, from personal experience, that does a lot of work. The amount of fire you are dumping on a squad within 24" (or 30 with the litany) is more than enough to get the points. Just park them on the points, throw in maybe an apothecary, and you are laughing. I wouldn't rule out Land Raider just yet - I've ran one of them in tournaments, and they can be useful as a gun plaform loaded up with purifiers. Not only that, but you got a very nice MW bomb with the purifiers (smite + Vortex), and vengeance of the machine spirit. But I take your argument, and the later - like you, I don't think we are a shooty army, but a shooty army is what we have to be before we get our codex. Otherwise we are in the open, while getting slaughtered, and the opponent racking up Abhor the Witch.

[Archadeus]

Yes i know what you mean! Im currently running a Convergence list for my crusade and im very happy with it. I killed a knight in one round of shooting! I dont disagree with you at all but what im saying is the psilencers dont fit my list imo. Ive actually tried The party bus/mortal wounds strat before with 10 purifiers, bro cap, ancient with flame banner. and 5 more purifiers with crowe in a rhino. How did you make it work? No Sir what im saying is this list is not a particularly shooty list! Since convergence we are an incredibly shooting army if we want to be! Abuse edict imperator and astral aim to high hell with 2 term blobs, use 3 cp to do 40 shots in the psychic phase psybolt/fury, and then do the same in the shooting phase. And completely cripple your opponent with a decisive strike.