So about those Guard point changes...

[domsto]

I don't get most of the new Point changes

why 55p for 10 Infatrymen when 50 was already overcosted

 

Hope for a new Book soon

 

a Little sidenote:

Am i the only one who really hates the new way GW writes down the Points and how they include some Wargear into the basecost and you basically have to flick between the Datasheet and Points to see what's included and what's not

Not only does this make it exremly confusing and hard to take a quick look at some costs, it only makes it harder for GW to balance in the Future.

Liked the 8.Ed version way more

Edited January 20, 2021 by domsto

[greatcrusade08]

battlescribe recent points update handles upgrades pretty well, its a free app download too, deffo worth a look

[domsto]

battlescribe recent points update handles upgrades pretty well, its a free app download too, deffo worth a look

I didn't knew Battlescribe is still allowed to include Games Workshop propertys. But nice to know

 

Regardless. As the one in my local Wargaming Community who introduce new Players to the different Games i still find it pretty hard to explain the new Points table to newcommers. And it doesn't make a good first impression of a System if i have to say to them they have to install a 3.party Software to understand Listbuilding

 

And don't get me startet on the official Warhammer 40k App

Edited January 20, 2021 by domsto

[greatcrusade08]

yeah its a fair critique, kinda reminds me of older editions tbh

[GuardDaddy]

I'm ok with the 40k app now, its improved.

 

You can still get a lot of guard - and I like that conscripts are less - I say this as infantry guard fan so got spanked hard by the changes! I actually think the astropath to 35pts is the harshest part!

 

As I'm in glass (of recaf) half full mood - the revamp that the codex's seem to be bringing fills me with hope!

[HallofStovokor]

The points changes are stupid. They're now 5.5 ppm. Since June that roughly a 37% increase. The astropath really hurts. They went from 15 points in June to being 35 points or 133% increase. I get that 15 points was undercosted, but damn that hurts. The changes to tanks and tank commanders makes very little difference. Basic russes are still overpriced and make TC overpriced doesn't mean that support russes are worth taking. Then the points change that makes no sense is the decrease on bullgryns. They were already good before the points dropped.

[War Angel]

I believe the intent was to make it impossible for a HWS with 3 mortars to have “while we stand we fight”

[Guardsman Bob]

The points changes are stupid. They're now 5.5 ppm. Since June that roughly a 37% increase. The astropath really hurts. They went from 15 points in June to being 35 points or 133% increase. I get that 15 points was undercosted, but damn that hurts. The changes to tanks and tank commanders makes very little difference. Basic russes are still overpriced and make TC overpriced doesn't mean that support russes are worth taking. Then the points change that makes no sense is the decrease on bullgryns. They were already good before the points dropped.

Thank you for bringing up that part, been thinking about our current meta.

 

One factor seems to be encouraging vehicles.  Outside of that I’m seriously thinking we are supposed to spam Bullgryns with ST support.  Smaller boards, wound\toughness elite talking, CC-encouraged.  I’m not really in the mood to spend up to $345 to update my army which hasn’t had a proper codex for years now.

[domsto]

I am also of the Opinion these Point change are meant to push Guard into a certain direction away from mass Infantry to a more Vehical focused.

One Problem i see is, as it's now most of our Vehical are a little bit overcosted.

 

In all honesty i can't really see any reason now to take more then the bare minimum of Infantry Squads. Yes they are our only real Obsec Unit, but they can't survive on a Objectiv for more than 10sec. and there Damage output is next to Zero in world where every MEQ is 2W.

 

Maybe i am to negativ right now but i have to say i am not a big Fan of the direction 9.Ed is going.

[greatcrusade08]

I am also of the Opinion these Point change are meant to push Guard into a certain direction away from mass Infantry to a more Vehical focused.

One Problem i see is, as it's now most of our Vehical are a little bit overcosted.

 

In all honesty i can't really see any reason now to take more then the bare minimum of Infantry Squads. Yes they are our only real Obsec Unit, but they can't survive on a Objectiv for more than 10sec. and there Damage output is next to Zero in world where every MEQ is 2W.

 

Maybe i am to negativ right now but i have to say i am not a big Fan of the direction 9.Ed is going.

 

Its fair criticism, but things change all the time, maybe a new codex will change things in our favour.

Until then im playing the game my way and if i lose, well ive had fun doin it.

 

*pulls out 250 infantry* 

[duz_]

Things do look grim however the Emperor protects! I'm sure once the guard codex drops we will bathe in his light!

In the meanwhile have faith

 

(I have done this by temporarily shelving my IG and picking up some sisters :lol: :sweat: )

[greatcrusade08]

my son loves that ive started using imperial guard, his iron hands batter my poor lads (ive oly got around 400pts so far), he loves rolling 6s, the little git.

[SvenIronhand]

my son loves that ive started using imperial guard, his iron hands batter my poor lads (ive oly got around 400pts so far), he loves rolling 6s, the little git.

 

 

Well, I hope my games with my own father (he uses my Space Wolves) don't become such a one-sided stomp-fest. 

[redmapa]

To me this seems like a sidegrade at best, like someone else said this pushes Guard away from Infantry and more towards vehicles but shifting around points to make something more appetizing than something else isnt a solution to Imperial Guard's current situation and even in a vehicle heavy list you would still struggle to take objectives, Russes can be ObSec but you lose CP and if you want them firing at full effect then you will rarely get to an objective across the board and the vehicles that ARE fast enough to get there are not ObSec or particularly tough.

 

To me these new points just feel like GW having no idea how to make the Infantry squad fit into 9th edition, giving up and simply giving Guard more Russes as if tabling our opponent is our only recourse to play 9th because we might as well not play the objectives.

[jarms48]

It was very hit and miss. The Chimera change was great, and I liked what they did with the Leman Russ and Tank Commander but they didn’t go far enough. Leman Russ tanks at the moment need to go to end of 8th edition points costs. Such as:

- Annihilator: 130 points.
- Battle Tank: 140 points.
- Conqueror: 145 points.
- Demolisher: 150 points.
- Eradicator: 130 points.
- Executioner: 135 points.
- Exterminator: 130 points.
- Punisher: 150 points.
- Vanquisher: 130 points.

A Tank Commander might even need to be increased to 40 points + cost of vehicle with this low of points, but I could see Leman Russes at least becoming more useful. The Demolisher might not be the all round best variant with these points either.

Talking purely in points, all Guard vehicles need to go down at least another 5 - 15 points to be competitive. Something like:

- Sentinels need to go down at least 5 points. Their multi-laser is anemic and they can’t do anything in close combat. Preferably I’d rather GW just price their heavy weapons at infantry heavy weapon point costs but I doubt they’d do that.
- Bane Wolf: 95 points.
- Devil Dog: 100 points.
- Hellhound: 105 points.
- Basilisks: 110 points.
- Deathstrike: 125 points (it’s a lost cause, even if it was 100 points I doubt anyone would take it).
- Hydra: 100 points.
- Manticore: 140 points.
- Wyvern: 120 points.

That’s what I’d do with all the basic Guard vehicles with no rule changes. For the Infantry units I’d do something like:

 

- Commissar Yarrick: 90 points.
- Infantry Squads: 50 points.
- Bullgryns: 90 points. 30 per model. Just compare them to Terminators or Bladeguard Veterans.
- Commissar: 20 points. They’re trash, I don’t understand why they even went up.
- Commissar Severina Raine: 25 points.
- Crusaders: 30 points. 15 per model. I can’t see them going lower than this, maybe 14 at the very lowest.
- Master of Ordnance: 30 points. Smaller boards killed his ability, you take him for the one-shot artillery now.
- Ministorum Priest: 35 points. To put them in-line with AS Preachers.
- Nork Deddog: 45 points.
- Ogryns: 60 points. 20 per model.
- Ogryn Bodyguard: 35 points.
- Ratlings: 35 points. 7 per model.
- Rein and Raus: 35 points.
- Special Weapons Squad: 36 points (with sniper rifles built in). 45 points max with other weapon options.
- Wyrdvane Psykers: 15 points. 5 per model. They aren’t characters, they have a worse stat line than Guardsmen. This way you can at least take 6 for 30 points to somewhat cast reliability.

- Death Rider Command Squadron: 80 points.
- Death Rider Squadron: 90 points. 18 per model.

Again, this assumes no rule changes. Only points.

Edited May 31, 2021 by jarms48

[WarriorFish]

I am for obvious reasons a bit out of touch with games, but these points feel better. Guard are not alone in waiting and needing their updated codex, but in lieu of know what these may be this would work for the current state of affairs. Commissars are my barometer given how they get the short end of the swagger stick a lot...

 

The current game is a bit different with the smaller table sizes matched with the overall deadliness as this doesn't help an army like Guard. Unfortunately without ways to increase survivability or ability it can be rough for some units. At least with how things are going we can see GW making notable chances with the latest codices so there can be some optimism for Guard. Aside from the "when" that is, as it feels like that's not any time soon?

[sairence]

I have a feeling that the Munitorum Manual points are largely what we'll have for the time being. The recent Codexes didn't have a whole lot of point changes I think, mostly stat and ability changes, so I don't really see the next wave handling that all that different.

 

And I'd like to think we'll be up not long after the AdMech one because at that point there isn't much else left that came out at the start of 8th.