GK 2000 (Tournament list v4.0-ish)

[Skywrath]

Tournament next week, came up with these two crackers of a list. C&C appreciated!

 

Disclaimer: The reason some of these have weird weapon options is because the tournament is strictly WYSIWYG. So, sorry, can't do weapon changes, typically speaking.

 

First list - Decides to point both middle fingers to the double paladin bomb and takes 2 GMNDKS fully decked out for some charging shenanigans. Reinforced with none other than Kaldor Draigo (because Kaldor > Voldus, sorry Reskin), and a paladin ancient with FitF and Augurium scrolls. Strikes hold points and Venerable Dreadnought takes the position of a sniper. 

 

Tactics: Depending on match-up, put both Dreadknights on the board with the Techmarine, Interceptors in cover and behind obscuring terrain, strikes on points. Rest goes in deepstrike. Tide of Shadows T1, then Convergence T2. T3, Pop Tide of Fury. Interceptors shunt T2 to the opponents board with the Paladin blob and pop psybolt ammunition. Note: I put both Interceptors in 2 squads of 5, but assume they are a group of 10. Dreadknights advance, popping psychic onslaught with the psilencers/psycannons and blowing everything out of it's path in time for the paladins and Kaldor to arrive. Use Kaldor wisely - if a unit flank is weak, reinforce that flank with him. Techmarine hobbles behind the Dreadknight and healing them up. Also, assume the Dreadnought has a lascannon as well - with the new point changes, the list is under 2000 (don't have a MM arm), BS hasn't updated their points yet.

 

 

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [37 PL, 10CP, 733pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 245pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 245pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

+ Elites +

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 143pts]: Astral Aim, Multi-melta

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [72 PL, -1CP, 1,258pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Armoury of Titan [-1CP]: 1 Additional Relic

 

+ HQ +

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Edict Imperator, Warp Shaping

 

Techmarine [5 PL, 75pts]: Aetheric Conduit, Boltgun, Empyrean Domination, Power axe

. Servo Arms: Flamer, Plasma cutter

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

+ Elites +

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Armoured Resilience, Augurium Scrolls, Warlord

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

Paladin Squad [30 PL, 558pts]: Sanctuary

. Paladin (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 2x Paladin (Halberd): 2x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Storm Bolter

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Paladin (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

. Paragon: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [7 PL, 115pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Interceptor (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Interceptor Squad [7 PL, 115pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Interceptor (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

++ Total: [109 PL, 9CP, 1,991pts] ++

 

Second list - a more traditional one, but one that I am pretty proud of as well. A more MSU focused list designed to make maximum use out of Smite tide with a combination of dreadnoughts with purge soul + chaplain (LD 10). While this list isn't that radically different from the last iteration, this iteration is more focused on MW output, but has enough of a synergy with convergence making both tides equally usable. So as before - Chaplain/Purgation Squad/Dreadnoughts in a castle with AA being rotated accordingly. Paladins/Ancient/Kaldor/Interceptors in Deepstrike. Blow people off the board, while staying in tide of shadows. Strikes hold points.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [116 PL, 12CP, 1,991pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 113pts]: 2. Words of Power, 6. Invocation of Focus, Ethereal Manipulation, Storm Bolter

 

Librarian [6 PL, 108pts]: Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

. Nemesis Warding Stave

. Storm Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Warp Shaping

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

+ Elites +

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Armoured Resilience, Augurium Scrolls, Warlord

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

Paladin Squad [30 PL, 558pts]: Sanctuary

. Paladin (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 2x Paladin (Halberd): 2x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Storm Bolter

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Paladin (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

. Paragon: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 143pts]: Multi-melta, Purge Soul

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 143pts]: Multi-melta, Purge Soul

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [7 PL, 115pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Interceptor (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

++ Total: [116 PL, 12CP, 1,991pts] ++

Edited January 10, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

I vote the 1st one. Much prefer the amount of threat saturation. Though I think it is hard countered by haywire.

[Skywrath]

I vote the 1st one. Much prefer the amount of threat saturation. Though I think it is hard countered by haywire.

 

Probably, however in my meta, I'm yet to see a harlequin player, ironically. I think I only seen one or two in tournaments, but that faction isn't their main faction. That being said, what are your thoughts about the second list, and what else would you improve?

Edited January 10, 2021 by Skywrath

[Archadeus]

I like the second list better, more control and boots on the ground. Im not a big fan of having 10 man paladins and dreadknights in the same list. Thats half your points going to power units and not enough control/scoring capabilities. Not to mention im really not a fan of the techmarine considering in this meta if a vehicle is being shot at its most likely dead. The only problem with the second list is way too much PAGK for my taste. But the powers and set up looks solid plus the double multi dreads really sell that list for me.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Archadeus

[Gnomeo]

 

 

I vote the 1st one. Much prefer the amount of threat saturation. Though I think it is hard countered by haywire.

Probably, however in my meta, I'm yet to see a harlequin player, ironically. I think I only seen one or two in tournaments, but that faction isn't their main faction. That being said, what are your thoughts about the second list, and what else would you improve?

I think list 2 is good. The main issue is I did not see anyone with edict. What I would personally change from list 2 is probably taking a bit more terminator armour. So maybe drop the paladins and upgrade some strikes to terminators. With regards to dreadnaughts with lascannons there points cost are 155 looking at the updated points. So I think both lists are over 2k

[Skywrath]

I like the second list better, more control and boots on the ground. Im not a big fan of having 10 man paladins and dreadknights in the same list. Thats half your points going to power units and not enough control/scoring capabilities. Not to mention im really not a fan of the techmarine considering in this meta if a vehicle is being shot at its most likely dead. The only problem with the second list is way too much PAGK for my taste. But the powers and set up looks solid plus the double multi dreads really sell that list for me.

 

I can understand that. With the techmarine, healing a vehicle with both 3+ invulns is pretty optimal. Seeing how both NDK's are Vehicles, he would also benefit from the Look out Sir rule. And there are many ways to shift him across with gate, or even putting him in deep-strike. Historically, I have a tendency to fail 3+ invulns more than 4+ (go figure), but statistically, having a techmarine in this list is nothing more than a cheaper (and probably) better librarian. Just without an invuln save, and an added bonus of healing vehicles, of which there are three in.. The second list, has PAGK for the simple yet obvious reason of sparing points. Essentially you drop strikes on a point, and forget about them, barring the occasional use of GOI. Use points to include units that actually survive to a stiff breeze.

 

 

 

I vote the 1st one. Much prefer the amount of threat saturation. Though I think it is hard countered by haywire.

Probably, however in my meta, I'm yet to see a harlequin player, ironically. I think I only seen one or two in tournaments, but that faction isn't their main faction. That being said, what are your thoughts about the second list, and what else would you improve?

I think list 2 is good. The main issue is I did not see anyone with edict. What I would personally change from list 2 is probably taking a bit more terminator armour. So maybe drop the paladins and upgrade some strikes to terminators. With regards to dreadnaughts with lascannons there points cost are 155 looking at the updated points. So I think both lists are over 2k

 

 

Hot take - but I don't find Edict useful for anything other than Interceptors. You can't charge after you use it is probably why I look at it with distaste. The double move is interesting, but at that point, if you are dropping units more than 9" away, you still have *a* chance of getting into combat, and even more so with a re-roll to charge granted by the Augurium Scrolls. I have both Interceptors in the list though, so I'll look at giving probably the ancient/apothecary/Kaldor that cast of Edict. I think maybe one cast should be enough?

 

As for Terminators - see the above argument - terminators won't hold to a stiff breeze and if I introduce them in list, I'll have yet another unit competing for Sanctuary. Seeing how a 5+ invuln is saving 33% of the time, for all intents and purposes, it might not exist when you are up against things like Plas Inceptors, that both have high S, high AP weaponry on top of volume of shots.

 

Regarding the points cost - the new lascannon is 20 points, down from 40. Seeing how I dropped about 40 points, and that list was 2020, I'm still under it by 5-10 points. If not, then I can replace the ancient with the apothecary. That is on top of the dreadnought's price drop and the GMNDK's weaponry being cheaper.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

 

 

I like the second list better, more control and boots on the ground. Im not a big fan of having 10 man paladins and dreadknights in the same list. Thats half your points going to power units and not enough control/scoring capabilities. Not to mention im really not a fan of the techmarine considering in this meta if a vehicle is being shot at its most likely dead. The only problem with the second list is way too much PAGK for my taste. But the powers and set up looks solid plus the double multi dreads really sell that list for me.

I can understand that. With the techmarine, healing a vehicle with both 3+ invulns is pretty optimal. Seeing how both NDK's are Vehicles, he would also benefit from the Look out Sir rule. And there are many ways to shift him across with gate, or even putting him in deep-strike. Historically, I have a tendency to fail 3+ invulns more than 4+ (go figure), but statistically, having a techmarine in this list is nothing more than a cheaper (and probably) better librarian. Just without an invuln save, and an added bonus of healing vehicles, of which there are three in.. The second list, has PAGK for the simple yet obvious reason of sparing points. Essentially you drop strikes on a point, and forget about them, barring the occasional use of GOI. Use points to include units that actually survive to a stiff breeze.

 

 

I vote the 1st one. Much prefer the amount of threat saturation. Though I think it is hard countered by haywire.

Probably, however in my meta, I'm yet to see a harlequin player, ironically. I think I only seen one or two in tournaments, but that faction isn't their main faction. That being said, what are your thoughts about the second list, and what else would you improve?

I think list 2 is good. The main issue is I did not see anyone with edict. What I would personally change from list 2 is probably taking a bit more terminator armour. So maybe drop the paladins and upgrade some strikes to terminators. With regards to dreadnaughts with lascannons there points cost are 155 looking at the updated points. So I think both lists are over 2k

Hot take - but I don't find Edict useful for anything other than Interceptors. You can't charge after you use it is probably why I look at it with distaste. The double move is interesting, but at that point, if you are dropping units more than 9" away, you still have *a* chance of getting into combat, and even more so with a re-roll to charge granted by the Augurium Scrolls. I have both Interceptors in the list though, so I'll look at giving probably the ancient/apothecary/Kaldor that cast of Edict. I think maybe one cast should be enough?

 

As for Terminators - see the above argument - terminators won't hold to a stiff breeze and if I introduce them in list, I'll have yet another unit competing for Sanctuary. Seeing how a 5+ invuln is saving 33% of the time, for all intents and purposes, it might not exist when you are up against things like Plas Inceptors, that both have high S, high AP weaponry on top of volume of shots.

 

Regarding the points cost - the new lascannon is 20 points, down from 40. Seeing how I dropped about 40 points, and that list was 2020, I'm still under it by 5-10 points. If not, then I can replace the ancient with the apothecary. That is on top of the dreadnought's price drop and the GMNDK's weaponry being cheaper.

Yeah lascanon went down but hull cost went up to include the close combat weapon. Honestly I think edict is maybe the best grey knight power and has won me games by its self. Its not just the extra movement but the fact it is out of phase. Makes stuff like ctan a breeze for us.

 

Fair enough with the terminators I tend to prefer them for mid board objective sitting and strike for back board. Just because strike die to bolters where as terminators live forcing extra fire power to be diverted.

 

Yeah I suck with invuls my record is failing 3 2+ invuls in a row including using with a reroll

 

Also is the tournament using the new rules?

Edited January 11, 2021 by Gnomeo

[Skywrath]

By my calculations the dreadnought with the lascannon is 3 points cheaper than the old points cost. That would put my list at 2003 (the GMNDK one). Then I'll just go with the MM's although I could have sworn there were other options to take it as is, while still being under the limit. No skin off my back either way.

 

Could you explain how edict won you games? Curious to hear your anecdotes.

 

In the words of Lord General Castor - a guardsman's life is to die. Apply that to Grey Knight strike squads. 

 

The tournament I presume will be - I imagine it will take a week max to update the points, so I see no reason for them not to use them.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

So the latest edict save was against tau. Normally easy but I had been rolling like :cuss. I think we all know those kinda games. I had gone 1st and it was turn 5. I had to use gate to get line breaker.

 

He had 2 drones on an objective In my deployment zone and my librarian was mid board 21" away. I moved towards them. Then cast edict. The storm bolter kills a drone and the movement put my within 12" the smite killed the other.

 

As a result it stopped him getting 5pts on the primary and as he had no fire power left it got me attrition for 4pts.

 

That 9pt swing won me the game. I forget the final score something like 75-72

[Gnomeo]

How'd the tournament go?

 

Which list did you take?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Gnomeo

[Archadeus]

Also curious. And who were your opponents?

[Skywrath]

Tournament got postphoned for this week Sunday. I'll have some battle reports then, brothers :)

[Gnomeo]

Any update on the tournament?

[librisrouge]

We await news with baited breath.

[Skywrath]

Just saw this message. Either way, here's how it went (I took the first list)..

 

In a nutshell, I had the worst luck going up against three marine players in all three rounds (Dark Angels, White Scars, and more Dark Angels). Got stomped by both Dark Angel players with no contention, and managed to narrowly lose to Scars. Both Dark Angels were running full-on Deathwing lists (the other one, less so, he had some Greenwing components in it), but the end result was the same. Everything was just not getting past their transhuman, invuln saves, and making a lot of 6+ FNP's due to the apothecary. Also -1 to damage because of the Pennant sucked. 

 

The White Scars were a narrow loss towards the end because of some pretty bad dice rolls (I manged to fail casting Sanctuary twice, even with a CP re-roll). Made a mistake in the heat of the moment where one of his bikes could draw a line to one my interceptor squad bases, and that sealed the deal for them. His Redemptors took care of my Nemesis Dreadknights, while Kaldor was busy causing terror in the backlines with the Paladin blob. He managed to put his terminators in such a position where the techmarine was the closest unit, and because both dreadknights were below 9W, he managed to kill him off. Despite this, because of both interceptors, I was ahead on primaries until T4, where he started to close the gap. Paladins and Kaldor were more or less dead in the water (as they were if you are hunting something with 20" movement), but they did have some pretty nice moments where Kaldor killed a 3m blob of outriders single-handedly. That left me with the other 9 bikers to deal with. Final score 68 - 74. 

[Gnomeo]

Sorry to hear that. Seems like those new dark angels are pretty tough. What do you think was the issue against the dark angels players? Clearly those deathwing are tough to kill would different secondaries had helped.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong put I was under the impression that look out sir applied to your starting wound characteristic not number of wounds remaining during the game.

[Skywrath]

Quite simply - lack of quality control on GW's part. That tends to happen when you are so focused on making a profit, you end up leaching the soul out of it in the process. Rant aside, we simply don't have enough AP to force invuln saves on those Deathwing. We can't reasonably expect to get into melee with them without being gunned off the board, so our other options are things like Paladins or Dreadknights.

 

Then comes the second hurdle - wounding on 4's, regardless of what you throw at them. Typically speaking, a S10, -4AP, D6 damage sword with 7 odd attacks (with Overwhelming Assault) wound's on 2's. With Inner Circle, that becomes 4's, effectively cutting down the attacks by half. So for the sake of argument, we are assuming 4 attacks go through, on average. That forces their invuln, which in the case of the terminators is a 5+, and in the case of knights is a 4+. So 33% and 50% respectively.

 

Third hurdle. So for the knights you end up killing at most 1 (factoring in the -1 to damage because of pennant and the 6+ FNP), and you end up killing two terminators (if you attack them). Then comes the inevitable counter-attack in the form of hammers, to which you'd be lucky if your Dreadknight survives after that. So out of those 7 attacks that would have been instant death to any marines other than Deathwing, we only kill the one marine. Good :cussing job Games Workshop.

 

Conclusion: Psycannons won't do anything about the Deathwing Knights (or Terminators with SS) as in cover they ignore the -2. If one goes through, it becomes 1 damage, which then gets healed next turn by the Ravenwing Apothecary. Psilencers with a potential swingy output can do something, as -2 could be enough to force an invuln save, on top of having a quantity of shots. We can't get in melee either because either we get shot of the board, or we get whacked after we do practically nothing to the Deathwing blob. Other than telling you to play objectives (linebreaker to play keep-away is a good one), raise banners, or some sort of psychic one, you are essentially playing a very boring game of survive as long as you can. Having a LOT of luck with Custodes in countering Marines in general (even DA), but that's a story for another time.

 

I'm about to head off to sleep, but it was my impression Look Out sir applied to wounds remaining. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

Definitely sounds like an out manoeuvre and out scoring game rather than killing them to win.

 

Yeah the look out sir is based on the characteristics not remaining wounds. so sounds like that guy either didn't know or deliberately milked it which sucks.

[Skywrath]

Definitely sounds like an out manoeuvre and out scoring game rather than killing them to win.

 

Yeah the look out sir is based on the characteristics not remaining wounds. so sounds like that guy either didn't know or deliberately milked it which sucks.

 

Well that just makes that experience I had a whole lot more peachier. Thanks for pointing that out to me, I'll be sure to ask him whether he knew about the rule. *powers up nemesis force halberd*

Edited February 18, 2021 by Skywrath