Help Me Answer Mundane Lore Questions!

[Halandaar]

Hi all,

 

I'm in the process of drafting some background for my homebrew chapter and I'm while I'm trying to come up with a few deviations and unique features, I'm also trying to make sure that it doesn't feel like they will be an exception to every established norm there is. So, unexcitingly, I'm trying to find out what the "norm" is!

1. What is the typical "feifdom" of a Space Marine chapter, I.e the planets considered to be under their direct rule or authority? I know that it can range from anything to a single world to a huge realm like Ultramar, but what would be considered normal? The homeworld only? The planets in the same system as the world? A wider area?
2. Related to the above, how wide an area is a Space Marine chapter typically responsible for protecting, outside the worlds under their control? I know that for example the Emperor's Spears protect Elara's Rift with 20 inhabited worlds, although they shared that responsibility with two other chapters. Far be it from me to tell AD-B he's wrong, but that seems like an awful lot of Astartes manpower for 20 worlds. Is it? Or would that be considered normal?
3. Regarding recruitment, I know there are some chapters that draw their aspirants from multiple worlds. Is this a common occurrence? Or is it more likely for it to only be a single world?
4. Anecdotally, I feel like most chapters seem to draw their recruits from savage and unforgiving worlds with a hardy populace. Would a chapter drawing recruits from a civilised world seem completely out of place?

I may come back and add more questions as I think of them, but i'd be grateful for any thoughts on the above in the meantime!

Edited January 12, 2021 by Halandaar

[Brother Tyler]

A Space Marine Chapter typically controls only a single world. It's not unheard of for a Chapter to control multiple worlds, but I would think that the most common version of this is multiple worlds in the same system. It is extremely rare for a Chapter to control multiple systems, and the Ultramarines' realm of Ultramar should be considered a singular case.

 

It is important to distinguish between the direct area of control that a Space Marine Chapter has and a wider range for which they have responsibility. Any Space Marine Chapter will naturally have considerable defensive responsibility for its homeworld, and will likely have extensive defense in depth that covers some segment of the system in which their homeworld is located, if not the entire system. Meanwhile, a Chapter might be tasked with defending some wider area. The Adeptus Vaelarii are just the latest example of groups of Chapters tasked with protecting large regions of space, previous examples being the Maelstrom Warders (four Chapters assigned to defend the Maelstrom Zone) and the Astartes Praeses (eighteen Chapters assigned to guard the Eye of Terror).

 

It's not uncommon for Chapters to recruit from multiple worlds, especially those that are fleet-based (e.g., Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Dark Angels), and those Chapters generally claim or are granted sole rights to recruiting from those worlds. I would guess that Chapters recruiting from a handful of worlds is common, though I would guess that it's more common for a Chapter to recruit from only a handful of worlds (including those that recruit from only a single world).

 

There are plenty of examples of Chapters that recruit from civilized worlds, including the Ultramarines, Fire Angels, Imperial Fists (who recruit gangers from Necromunda), etc. The Adeptus Astartes aren't necessarily looking for barbarians - they're looking for tough warriors. There are plenty of environments/cultures that produce tough warriors.

 

Lastly, I'm moving this to the Space Marines forum. These are questions about Space Marines. It's a common misunderstanding to think that the lore behind the Adeptus Astartes is discussed in the Liber Astartes forum.

[Marshal Loss]

 

1. Related to the above, how wide an area is a Space Marine chapter typically responsible for protecting, outside the worlds under their control? I know that for example the Emperor's Spears protect Elara's Rift with 20 inhabited worlds, although they shared that responsibility with two other chapters. Far be it from me to tell AD-B he's wrong, but that seems like an awful lot of Astartes manpower for 20 worlds. Is it? Or would that be considered normal?

Been a while since I read the book, but is that figure reflective of their holdings prior to the rift? They've definitely lost a lot of worlds to the Exilarchy, and the three of them might have originally been in charge of a far larger area

[Halandaar]

Been a while since I read the book, but is that figure reflective of their holdings prior to the rift? They've definitely lost a lot of worlds to the Exilarchy, and the three of them might have originally been in charge of a far larger area

 

It's a fair point, and without re-reading it I couldn't tell you for sure. If 20 worlds was simply what was left, that would feel a bit more reasonable. That said, I know that prior to the Bastion Founding the Celestial Lions were defending the veil alone, so 20 worlds total for a single chapter feels... better? I guess I'm thinking of places like the Badab sector, with something like 13-14 worlds under the protection of a single chapter.

 

A Space Marine Chapter typically controls only a single world. It's not unheard of for a Chapter to control multiple worlds, but I would think that the most common version of this is multiple worlds in the same system. It is extremely rare for a Chapter to control multiple systems, and the Ultramarines' realm of Ultramar should be considered a singular case.

 

Yeah I'm aware Ultramar is a real outlier and was working on the assumption that the opposite end of the scale, the single homeworld, was the standard.  

 

It is important to distinguish between the direct area of control that a Space Marine Chapter has and a wider range for which they have responsibility. Any Space Marine Chapter will naturally have considerable defensive responsibility for its homeworld, and will likely have extensive defense in depth that covers some segment of the system in which their homeworld is located, if not the entire system. Meanwhile, a Chapter might be tasked with defending some wider area. The Adeptus Vaelarii are just the latest example of groups of Chapters tasked with protecting large regions of space, previous examples being the Maelstrom Warders (four Chapters assigned to defend the Maelstrom Zone) and the Astartes Praeses (eighteen Chapters assigned to guard the Eye of Terror).

 

The distinction between Astartes-controlled space and Astartes-protected space and how much of an area each includes is exactly what I'm trying to understand. Is my chapter in command of a single world and protecting the star system it's in? Or does their remit include nearby systems as well?

 

It's not uncommon for Chapters to recruit from multiple worlds, especially those that are fleet-based (e.g., Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Dark Angels), and those Chapters generally claim or are granted sole rights to recruiting from those worlds. I would guess that Chapters recruiting from a handful of worlds is common, though I would guess that it's more common for a Chapter to recruit from only a handful of worlds (including those that recruit from only a single world).

 

 

I'm not planning on a fleet-based chapter, but I'm trying to reconcile having different cultures being part of the same chapter, and my inspiration for this is the way the Roman army integrated foreign auxiliaries into it's legions. You could have "Maximus Romanus Namus" and "Uber Germania Namen" fighting under the same banner for the same goals, but with very different origins and cultures. Obviously in real-world terms, it's perfectly possible to pick 20 people from Earth who would all be from vastly different cultures, but 40k trades in planetary cultures (i.e. the entire world of pseudo-Vikings that is Fenris). What I'm trying to decide is; does it make more sense for those differing cultures to come from a single world slightly more in the image of reality, or from two (or more) different worlds with their own planetary-scale cultures?

 

There are plenty of examples of Chapters that recruit from civilized worlds, including the Ultramarines, Fire Angels, Imperial Fists (who recruit gangers from Necromunda), etc. The Adeptus Astartes aren't necessarily looking for barbarians - they're looking for tough warriors. There are plenty of environments/cultures that produce tough warriors.

 

Great; a civilised world with an ingrained martial culture might suit my needs, I didn't really want to go down the "this guy survived hunting a wild 8-ton demon-badger armed only with a stick and a fish, he'll make a fine Marine" route.

[Brother Tyler]

There is a vast difference between the area that a Chapter controls and that in which it may be active. Using the Third War for Armageddon and the Thirteenth Black Crusade of Abaddon the Despoiler as examples, Chapters from across the galaxy were present at both. While Chapters closer to those battlezones were more prevalent, you can also find Chapters whose homeworlds are considerable distances away. Chapters have different remits, some being charged with very specific tasks/areas and others (most) having much broader scopes of operations. Some Chapters may be active across great swathes of the galaxy, either because they are fleet-based/mobile or simply because they are willing to send their forces long distances away [if they have the operational resources available for such activities].

 

As far as multiple cultures goes, look at our own world as an example. There are numerous distinctive cultures on this small world. The tropes of mono-culture and mono-biome are common in works of fiction, but they are unrealistic. You might also consider allowing for different cultures across different areas of your Chapter's homeworld as a way to fit multiple cultures into the Chapter.

[WARMASTER_]

@Halandaar instead of linking a massive quote chain I’ll just reply here...

 

Brother Tyler summed it up great but here are my 2 cents

 

Regarding Cultures...

 

Don’t worry to much about having multiple cultures inside the chapter, while the home world or home worlds of your chapter can certainly influence it’s culture and certainly does to varying degrees to others throughout the lore, Most Astartes are far more shaped by the Chapter Cults and Psycho Indoctrination’s (Chapters like the Black templars as a prime example, past lives meaning nothing and the chapter cult and creeds meaning everything)

 

Regarding Chapter Fiefdoms and Protectorate‘s...

 

This one is entirely up to you as Brother Tyler said there’s numerous examples of chapters having vastly different remits...

 

The Angels Revenant were tasked with the entire Orpheus Sector (around 31 worlds) as were the blood angels with the red scar sector.

 

Prior to the Badab war the Maelstrom Warders with given the near impossible task of defending the entire maelstrom sector with only 4 chapters later 3 as the Charnel guard were called away. Even worse after the war the task was given to a single chapter at below half strength (star phantoms)

 

As with all of 40K lore you’ve really got the freedom to do as you like, if you want your chapter to control multiple worlds and defend at entire sector, go for it! If you want them to just control their own world and crusade the imperium, go for it! It’s the beauty of the lore

 

Although as side note the 9th codex has some very relevant information on pg12 “Chapter planets” you should definitely give it a read

 

Regarding Recruitment...

 

While it’s very common for chapters to recruit from Death or Feral worlds and also common place for them to draw from the marital nobility of feudal worlds (even Knight worlds like the Howling Griffins) Hive worlds (ganger’s) or any world available to them with a sustainable stock of aspirants. The chapter is looking for hardy stock with an ingrained killer instinct and that can be almost any world in the imperium

 

Hope this helps

 

Edit: Grammar + Spelling

Edited January 12, 2021 by BladeOfVengeance

[No Foes Remain]

In addition to the above examples there was a refference in the 5th Edition Rulebook that said:

 

"The Waning, was a period of time after the Redemption Crusades, where, due to the exhaustion of the Imperium's military, world after world and system after system fell to Ork invasion, Chaos insurgence, or plain rebellion. Some systems were turned over to Space Marine chapters for direct government."

 

Now this was in M39 so, depending on when they were founded, your chapter could have been given a few new systems and told to watch over them which would also give your chapter new recruiting ground sources to help keep them up to strength.

 

Downside is that the Waning hasn't been refferenced that I can see in the latest rulebook or the 8th edition codex (not got the 9th yet so am unable to check) but I quite like that little tidbit of lore as it shows how bad things have gotten for the Imperium to put their concerns of the Astartes having large holdings.

Edited January 13, 2021 by No Foes Remain

[WARMASTER_]

It’s in the 9th codex also

 

“Most Chapters have a sphere of influence that reaches beyond their home world, even if it is just to the boundaries of their home system, but a significant number have seen this increase. In these dark times, many areas of space have been given over to direct Space Marine control for security and stability. In the lmperium Nihilus especially, a growing number of worlds cede some or even all oftheir authority to Space Marine Chapters based nearby, or offer resources, aspirants and serfs to them in exchange for protection”

[Charlo]

Hi all,

 

I'm in the process of drafting some background for my homebrew chapter and I'm while I'm trying to come up with a few deviations and unique features, I'm also trying to make sure that it doesn't feel like they will be an exception to every established norm there is. So, unexcitingly, I'm trying to find out what the "norm" is!

1. What is the typical "feifdom" of a Space Marine chapter, I.e the planets considered to be under their direct rule or authority? I know that it can range from anything to a single world to a huge realm like Ultramar, but what would be considered normal? The homeworld only? The planets in the same system as the world? A wider area?
2. Related to the above, how wide an area is a Space Marine chapter typically responsible for protecting, outside the worlds under their control? I know that for example the Emperor's Spears protect Elara's Rift with 20 inhabited worlds, although they shared that responsibility with two other chapters. Far be it from me to tell AD-B he's wrong, but that seems like an awful lot of Astartes manpower for 20 worlds. Is it? Or would that be considered normal?
3. Regarding recruitment, I know there are some chapters that draw their aspirants from multiple worlds. Is this a common occurrence? Or is it more likely for it to only be a single world?
4. Anecdotally, I feel like most chapters seem to draw their recruits from savage and unforgiving worlds with a hardy populace. Would a chapter drawing recruits from a civilised world seem completely out of place?

I may come back and add more questions as I think of them, but i'd be grateful for any thoughts on the above in the meantime!

 

1. As others have said, usually one "homeworld" that they might control directly but its not too uncommon for a system to be within the remit of authority, at least in matters of war.
2. I think the best way to think about this is not about what they should protect, but what they can protect. Using the Velarii example; three chapters for 20 worlds is still only 150 marines per world. In terms of raw strength that is not enough to hold a world against any substantial threat. Sure they can make key strikes but that still may not be enough, especially in the wake of the rift. Marines have huge remits but ultimately can only respond to so many threats of varying danger at once. A good bit of background would be deciding what your chapter is noted for being responsible for VS what they may actually manage.
3. It's all background dependant, though I'd say its generally the second founding chapters with a longer history or prior empires to draw from that use multiple. Else fleet-based chapters may do this too, or they may have just one or a couple of set recruitment worlds where they will have a garrison.
4. Not at all! Maybe it's an aspiration of the nobles to have thier sons become astartes? Or maybe they hate and resent the fact they need to give up their offspring but continue to do so to keep enjoying their luxury. It would certainly have a cool influence on the chapters culture wouldn't it? Maybe a noble world has access to incredible training facilities that produces exceptional aspirants?

Hope that helps :)

[Beta galactosidase]

You should look at the Index Astartes and the lexicanum articles on the Crimsons Fists.

 

First, their fortress monastery is in Rynn’s World but they do t control it. A chapter needs a defensible location and a steady supply of fuel and materials. They existed as a crusading fleet based chapter for centuries and when they found Rynns World it already had a developed society with a political structure. They decided to settle there but the planet and its imperial commander are independent of them.

 

Secondly, even though they put their monastery on Rynns World for its industrial output and defensive capability, they don’t recruit there. They recruit on a neighboring planet in the same system called Blackwater, which has a less developed society with more personal combat.

 

Afaik many chapters recruit from convenient worlds while they’re on campaign even if they have a specific home world.

 

 

You can also read about “material culture,” an anthropological concept. The materials available for people to build their dwellings determine things like whether they live with their extended families, multiple unrelated families, with sex-segregated communities even for people with children, or other forms. The kinds of resource available also determine how big a community is, whether it moves seasonally or every decade or not for centuries. All these things constitute “culture” and what kind of aesthetics and rituals a society uses.

 

A chapter culture comes from how they actually live, not their recruits. So the wolves and Salamanders happen to live on planets that they interact with and which affect their cultures. The Carcharodons’ culture comes from the way they live, isolated in remote space and taking what they want in the grey and red tithes. None of those cultures are inherited from their recruits.

[Gamiel]

Regarding #4 so is it possible that chapters look fore something different than the usual harened survivor that you get from underhives and Death and Feral worlds. A chapter that suffer from rage, sadism, overdeveloped killing instinct, or similar may try to stave it off by recruiting those that are kind of heart and gentle in deminer.

 

 

 

 
A chapter culture comes from how they actually live, not their recruits. So the wolves and Salamanders happen to live on planets that they interact with and which affect their cultures. The Carcharodons’ culture comes from the way they live, isolated in remote space and taking what they want in the grey and red tithes. None of those cultures are inherited from their recruits.

Based on the legions do it seem that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough so will the recruiter home culture begin to bleed over to the chapter culture

[WARMASTER_]

Based on the legions do it seem that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough so will the recruiter home culture begin to bleed over to the chapter culture

True but 30k is a totally different beast from 40K the differences in the Astartes are also night and day, in the 30k they’re much more soldiers defined by their home worlds and Primarch’s

 

Where as 40K they’re much more defined by psycho indoctrinations, dogma, chapter cults and a semi religious zeal towards the enemies of mankind. More holy warriors than soldiers and it’s an important distinction

[Gamiel]

 

Based on the legions do it seem that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough so will the recruiter home culture begin to bleed over to the chapter culture

True but 30k is a totally different beast from 40K the differences in the Astartes are also night and day, in the 30k they’re much more soldiers defined by their home worlds and Primarch’s

 

Where as 40K they’re much more defined by psycho indoctrinations, dogma, chapter cults and a semi religious zeal towards the enemies of mankind. More holy warriors than soldiers and it’s an important distinction

 

Fully agree, that's why I said "that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough", as in there is something that has gone wrong in the Chapter's process of creating a SM

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

 

Based on the legions do it seem that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough so will the recruiter home culture begin to bleed over to the chapter culture

True but 30k is a totally different beast from 40K the differences in the Astartes are also night and day, in the 30k they’re much more soldiers defined by their home worlds and Primarch’s

 

Where as 40K they’re much more defined by psycho indoctrinations, dogma, chapter cults and a semi religious zeal towards the enemies of mankind. More holy warriors than soldiers and it’s an important distinction

Fully agree, that's why I said "that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough", as in there is something that has gone wrong in the Chapter's process of creating a SM

I see what you’re saying, but that wasn’t my point though, it’s that in the heresy era with successful psycho indoctrination or not the legions were still mostly shaped by their home words because of their primarch’s. It was purposely intertwined in the legions where as in 40K it’s generally only the first founding chapters (remaining legions) that are still defined by it, rather than the chapter cults that shape most of the rest (black templars etc)

[Halandaar]

As far as multiple cultures goes, look at our own world as an example. There are numerous distinctive cultures on this small world. The tropes of mono-culture and mono-biome are common in works of fiction, but they are unrealistic. You might also consider allowing for different cultures across different areas of your Chapter's homeworld as a way to fit multiple cultures into the Chapter.

 

Sure, I did reference the fact that Earth has produced an uncountable number of distinct cultures that vary wildly from each other. My musing was more that planets with single cultures are a very prevalent thing in 40k and therefore wondering if it's actually more appropriate to the setting despite being less realistic? It may not end up being that important overall though, because...

 

Don’t worry to much about having multiple cultures inside the chapter, while the home world or home worlds of your chapter can certainly influence it’s culture and certainly does to varying degrees to others throughout the lore, Most Astartes are far more shaped by the Chapter Cults and Psycho Indoctrination’s (Chapters like the Black templars as a prime example, past lives meaning nothing and the chapter cult and creeds meaning everything)

 

...I'm now starting to lean more towards this, the idea that the "chapter culture" overrides the homeworld culture to a large extent, and that references to the homeworld's people and ways within the organisational structure are perfunctory and/or ceremonial.

 

In addition to the above examples there was a refference in the 5th Edition Rulebook that said:

 

"The Waning, was a period of time after the Redemption Crusades, where, due to the exhaustion of the Imperium's military, world after world and system after system fell to Ork invasion, Chaos insurgence, or plain rebellion. Some systems were turned over to Space Marine chapters for direct government."

 

Now this was in M39 so, depending on when they were founded, your chapter could have been given a few new systems and told to watch over them which would also give your chapter new recruiting ground sources to help keep them up to strength.

 

Downside is that the Waning hasn't been refferenced that I can see in the latest rulebook or the 8th edition codex (not got the 9th yet so am unable to check) but I quite like that little tidbit of lore as it shows how bad things have gotten for the Imperium to put their concerns of the Astartes having large holdings.

 

This is a great tidbit, thank you! As far as I'm concerned the fact that it hasn't been referenced lately doesn't mean it's not still there to be used. I'll definitely consider it when deciding when the chapter was founded and what they may have ended up responsible for.

 

It’s in the 9th codex also

 

“Most Chapters have a sphere of influence that reaches beyond their home world, even if it is just to the boundaries of their home system, but a significant number have seen this increase. In these dark times, many areas of space have been given over to direct Space Marine control for security and stability. In the lmperium Nihilus especially, a growing number of worlds cede some or even all oftheir authority to Space Marine Chapters based nearby, or offer resources, aspirants and serfs to them in exchange for protection”

 

Also very helpful and offers a bit of flexibility in that I can have them end up with more to do over time as other resources get whittled down.

 

 

1. As others have said, usually one "homeworld" that they might control directly but its not too uncommon for a system to be within the remit of authority, at least in matters of war.
2. I think the best way to think about this is not about what they should protect, but what they can protect. Using the Vaelarii example; three chapters for 20 worlds is still only 150 marines per world. In terms of raw strength that is not enough to hold a world against any substantial threat. Sure they can make key strikes but that still may not be enough, especially in the wake of the rift. Marines have huge remits but ultimately can only respond to so many threats of varying danger at once. A good bit of background would be deciding what your chapter is noted for being responsible for VS what they may actually manage.
3. It's all background dependent, though I'd say its generally the second founding chapters with a longer history or prior empires to draw from that use multiple. Else fleet-based chapters may do this too, or they may have just one or a couple of set recruitment worlds where they will have a garrison.
4. Not at all! Maybe it's an aspiration of the nobles to have their sons become Astartes? Or maybe they hate and resent the fact they need to give up their offspring but continue to do so to keep enjoying their luxury. It would certainly have a cool influence on the chapters culture wouldn't it? Maybe a noble world has access to incredible training facilities that produces exceptional aspirants?

Hope that helps

 

Good points to think on here, thank you. It definitely seems worth detailing that their "official" remit differs substantially from what they're required to do in the post-Rift Imperium. Regarding recruitment, definitely keen on the highlighted bit. I'm thinking maybe that when the Chapter first started recruiting aspirants it was a more feudal society with opposing clans, but in the "present" day society has changed a lot and now it's more like wealthy houses producing fighters through an extensive culture of honour duels or something like that.

 

You should look at the Index Astartes and the lexicanum articles on the Crimsons Fists.

 

First, their fortress monastery is in Rynn’s World but they do t control it. A chapter needs a defensible location and a steady supply of fuel and materials. They existed as a crusading fleet based chapter for centuries and when they found Rynns World it already had a developed society with a political structure. They decided to settle there but the planet and its imperial commander are independent of them.

 

Secondly, even though they put their monastery on Rynns World for its industrial output and defensive capability, they don’t recruit there. They recruit on a neighboring planet in the same system called Blackwater, which has a less developed society with more personal combat.

 

Afaik many chapters recruit from convenient worlds while they’re on campaign even if they have a specific home world.

 

 

You can also read about “material culture,” an anthropological concept. The materials available for people to build their dwellings determine things like whether they live with their extended families, multiple unrelated families, with sex-segregated communities even for people with children, or other forms. The kinds of resource available also determine how big a community is, whether it moves seasonally or every decade or not for centuries. All these things constitute “culture” and what kind of aesthetics and rituals a society uses.

 

A chapter culture comes from how they actually live, not their recruits. So the wolves and Salamanders happen to live on planets that they interact with and which affect their cultures. The Carcharodons’ culture comes from the way they live, isolated in remote space and taking what they want in the grey and red tithes. None of those cultures are inherited from their recruits.

 

Really interesting, thank you. One of the things I'm toying with is how a significant change in access to resources (specifically drinkable water) has fundamentally changed how the planetary societies work, so the point about "material" culture is quite relevant.

 

Thanks everybody, this is definitely giving me a lot of useful and usable ideas!

 

 

[Gederas]

As far as multiple cultures goes, look at our own world as an example. There are numerous distinctive cultures on this small world. The tropes of mono-culture and mono-biome are common in works of fiction, but they are unrealistic. You might also consider allowing for different cultures across different areas of your Chapter's homeworld as a way to fit multiple cultures into the Chapter.

Sure, I did reference the fact that Earth has produced an uncountable number of distinct cultures that vary wildly from each other. My musing was more that planets with single cultures are a very prevalent thing in 40k and therefore wondering if it's actually more appropriate to the setting despite being less realistic?

To be honest, it's actually not as realistic as you'd think.

 

Currently on Earth, we do have wildly distinct cultures but that was because they were able to develop separately. However, a "civilised world" in 40k terms means fully space-faring and we're yet to reach that. There's a good chance that Earth will reach near-monoculture status in a few centuries, with some minor differences. On the flipside, a monoculture planet that's pre-industrial also makes sense. Using the Emperor's Spears homeworld of Nemeton for example, the tribespeople there are a monoculture at a Iron Age(roughly) technological level similar to post-Roman Briton Celts. They've stayed this way since they regressed sometime after the Great Crusade when the XIII Legion tried to bring their civilization and culture of Ultramar to Nemeton.

[Gamiel]

 

...I'm now starting to lean more towards this, the idea that the "chapter culture" overrides the homeworld culture to a large extent, and that references to the homeworld's people and ways within the organisational structure are perfunctory and/or ceremonial.

 

You may already have some ideas here but I just want to mention that having the Chapter culture and their homeworlds culture being notably different is something that's fun ironic and can be used for story creating – like a savage, barbaric Chapter whose homeworld is civilized (not just by Imperial standard but our own); a civilized Chapter whose homeworld is a Feral World; a Chapter that still believe in the old Imperial Truth whose homeworld is highly religious (maybe even a Shrine World); a Chapter with a notable death cult on a Paradise World; etcetera.

[Halandaar]

 

You may already have some ideas here but I just want to mention that having the Chapter culture and their homeworlds culture being notably different is something that's fun ironic and can be used for story creating – like a savage, barbaric Chapter whose homeworld is civilized (not just by Imperial standard but our own); a civilized Chapter whose homeworld is a Feral World; a Chapter that still believe in the old Imperial Truth whose homeworld is highly religious (maybe even a Shrine World); a Chapter with a notable death cult on a Paradise World; etcetera.

 

Yeah, I do like stuff like that. My current thinking is that what starts off as a Noble Chapter/Savage World relationship over time actually swaps, with the Chapter becoming increasingly savage and the world society becoming more civilised.

[Gamiel]

 

 

 

Based on the legions do it seem that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough so will the recruiter home culture begin to bleed over to the chapter culture

True but 30k is a totally different beast from 40K the differences in the Astartes are also night and day, in the 30k they’re much more soldiers defined by their home worlds and Primarch’s

 

Where as 40K they’re much more defined by psycho indoctrinations, dogma, chapter cults and a semi religious zeal towards the enemies of mankind. More holy warriors than soldiers and it’s an important distinction

Fully agree, that's why I said "that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough", as in there is something that has gone wrong in the Chapter's process of creating a SM

I see what you’re saying, but that wasn’t my point though, it’s that in the heresy era with successful psycho indoctrination or not the legions were still mostly shaped by their home words because of their primarch’s. It was purposely intertwined in the legions where as in 40K it’s generally only the first founding chapters (remaining legions) that are still defined by it, rather than the chapter cults that shape most of the rest (black templars etc)

 

Based on the Night Lords and their many problematic cultural quirks that Conrad never approved upon or helped the Legion as a fighting force do I disagree.

 

 

 

As far as multiple cultures goes, look at our own world as an example. There are numerous distinctive cultures on this small world. The tropes of mono-culture and mono-biome are common in works of fiction, but they are unrealistic. You might also consider allowing for different cultures across different areas of your Chapter's homeworld as a way to fit multiple cultures into the Chapter.

Sure, I did reference the fact that Earth has produced an uncountable number of distinct cultures that vary wildly from each other. My musing was more that planets with single cultures are a very prevalent thing in 40k and therefore wondering if it's actually more appropriate to the setting despite being less realistic?

To be honest, it's actually not as realistic as you'd think.

 

Currently on Earth, we do have wildly distinct cultures but that was because they were able to develop separately. However, a "civilised world" in 40k terms means fully space-faring and we're yet to reach that. There's a good chance that Earth will reach near-monoculture status in a few centuries, with some minor differences. On the flipside, a monoculture planet that's pre-industrial also makes sense. Using the Emperor's Spears homeworld of Nemeton for example, the tribespeople there are a monoculture at a Iron Age(roughly) technological level similar to post-Roman Briton Celts. They've stayed this way since they regressed sometime after the Great Crusade when the XIII Legion tried to bring their civilization and culture of Ultramar to Nemeton.

 

Regarding Nemeton did ADB say (as I recall) that it is not really monocultural but there are some cultural points that all of the tribes have, and it’s also mentioned that all the tribes semi-routinely have great gathering to trade, intermingle, exchange news and children, and have religious rites, thereby keeping them culturally together in a way.

 

 

 

 

You may already have some ideas here but I just want to mention that having the Chapter culture and their homeworlds culture being notably different is something that's fun ironic and can be used for story creating – like a savage, barbaric Chapter whose homeworld is civilized (not just by Imperial standard but our own); a civilized Chapter whose homeworld is a Feral World; a Chapter that still believe in the old Imperial Truth whose homeworld is highly religious (maybe even a Shrine World); a Chapter with a notable death cult on a Paradise World; etcetera.

 

Yeah, I do like stuff like that. My current thinking is that what starts off as a Noble Chapter/Savage World relationship over time actually swaps, with the Chapter becoming increasingly savage and the world society becoming more civilised.

 

If you want any suggestions on possible ways the natives could be/was barbaric/savage do I have some. 

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

 

 

 

Based on the legions do it seem that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough so will the recruiter home culture begin to bleed over to the chapter culture

True but 30k is a totally different beast from 40K the differences in the Astartes are also night and day, in the 30k they’re much more soldiers defined by their home worlds and Primarch’s

 

Where as 40K they’re much more defined by psycho indoctrinations, dogma, chapter cults and a semi religious zeal towards the enemies of mankind. More holy warriors than soldiers and it’s an important distinction

Fully agree, that's why I said "that if the indoctrination and/or memory wipe is not good enough", as in there is something that has gone wrong in the Chapter's process of creating a SM

I see what you’re saying, but that wasn’t my point though, it’s that in the heresy era with successful psycho indoctrination or not the legions were still mostly shaped by their home words because of their primarch’s. It was purposely intertwined in the legions where as in 40K it’s generally only the first founding chapters (remaining legions) that are still defined by it, rather than the chapter cults that shape most of the rest (black templars etc)

Based on the Night Lords and their many problematic cultural quirks that Conrad never approved upon or helped the Legion as a fighting force do I disagree.

That’s not the case though...

 

The Nights Lords were completely shaped by Curze. The entire legions character and battle doctrines were from his early life bringing nostramo to “compliance” ... Terror tactics, Dread, Brutal violence all tactics used by him later used by his legion

 

He trained an entire legion to commit the worst acts imaginable because he believed the only way humans were peaceful + lawful was under fear of the worst consequences

 

Nostramo shaped them no doubt but Curze made them who they really were

 

Curze hated his legion, or what they became at least because his realised that instead of having a legion with his own conviction for justice at any cost he had raised a legion of murders that lived for nothing but slaughter and power

 

Also a note, it’s been said quite a few times that towards the end of the crusade era the Nights Lords were giving minimal If no Psycho indoctrination so that have definitely had an effect towards your point

Edited January 20, 2021 by BladeOfVengeance