Random musings on Intercessors and Troops

[Indefragable]

'Tis better to hold the line with Troops, and smash ye foe with Elites...

 

...or 'tis better to smash the foe with Troops and use other Troops to taggeth thine Objectives? 

 

 

Assault Intercessors seem like the "obvious" Troops choice for BA: we like to stab, and they're a stabby Troops choice. Win? 

 

But as is often the case in this game, I find my eyes wandering to seemingly counter-intuitive options. In this particular case, it's the Heavy Intercessor. 

 

On paper, the Heavy Intercessor is the "least" Blood Angel-ly choice: it sits back and shoots heavy guns and it just looks big and clunky and heavy. At first glance, more apropos for the Sons of Dorn or Ferrus Manus than to the lithe lethal grace of the Sons of Sanguinius. 

 

..but therein lies the rub: the spicy helps accentuate the sweet and vice versa. 

 

Our strength is really in our Elites and our specialist units. There is also a Troop Tax. And holding Objectives is more important than ever in 9th Ed. So the "better" at digging in and holding Obj our Troops are, the more our Elite units are freed-up to go stab stuff. Taking Heavy Intercessors and bolt rifle/stalker-rifle Intercessors to just sit on backfield or near-field Obj all game seems like a pretty good idea, if for no other reason than that it makes even better use out of the Troops slot so that the HQ, Elites, FA, and HS slots can roam around rompin' on stuff. 

 

<Staring at squads of bolt-rifle Intercessors and wondering how to make use of them without tearing them apart and re-kitting them). 

 

Counter-points:

Of course, with Tactical Marines now being 2W, the question is what do Intercessors bring for 10pts more that would make them better in this role, especially if their primary role is to sit on (backfield) OBJ? Tactical can bring a HB or ML or LC and take pot shots while doing so.

 

Secondly, Heavy Intercessors start at 140 pops compared to 40 or 50 less respectively for Intercessors and Tacticals. Does T5 and and extra 5W (on a squad of 5) warrant that?

[Karhedron]

It is a tricky question.

 

When 9th edition first dropped, I assumed it was an edition that would favour armies with access to durable Troop units. However results that have come in from the limited number of competitive games so far suggest it is not so much having durable Troops as the ability to kill durable Troops that win games.

 

With that in mind, I don't think we can expect our Troops to be doing the heavy lifting. That is the job of our Elites. Troops are there to provide support and secure Objectives once the Elites have seized them. With this in mind, here are a couple of Troop units that seem to be doing well in the meta currently.

• Tactical squad with Grav Cannon and sergeant to taste. Cheap and flexible. The Grav Cannon is a great weapon for Tactical squads because the range synergises well with Bolters and it is reasonably effective against hordes, MEQs and even vehicles at a pinch. With 4 shots, you can usually count on a couple of hits, even if the squad is on the move.
• Intercessors with ABRs, Grenade launcher and a special weapon on the Serg: These guys can move fast with our Trait while still dishing out plenty of firepower. If they survive to T3, they can make a decent 2nd wave once Savage Echoes kicks in and they can help finish off weakened targets.
• Infiltrators with Helix Adept: Put these guys on your home Objective and forget about them. The Helix Adept makes them very resilient to being whittled away across multiple turns and their ability to push back Reserves to 12" mean your opponent will have a harder time jumping them.

I think that Heavy Intercessors will definitely be a thing once they arrive. They are very keenly costed to balance their durability. A 5-man squad has almost the same number of wounds as a 7-man Intercessor squad and costs almost exactly the same points. Slightly lower firepower balances the T5. Access to the Gravis strat is also very handy and 3W is very handy for facing the plethora of 2D weapons saturating the meta.

 

Overall, I think most of the Troop unit options could fit with our play style. It is just a question of how you want to do it. Given that my Characters are normally leading the charge, I like Infiltrators and Heavy Intercessors for the backfield role as they are a bit more self-sufficient. ABR Intercessors and/or Grav Cannon Tacs take the midfield role. Everyone goes Baals to the wall for a glorious charge! ;)

[Gloomfoe]

I think between heavy intercessors, death guard, and dreadnoughts, the meta is gonna shift to flat 3 damage weapons, or high volume damage 1 weapons, as opposed to flat 2.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I think balance in a list is a good thing. Having enough shooty to soften up targets in turns one and two makes the turn 2+ combat phases a bit easier.

[Indefragable]

The more my mind stews over 9th Ed, the more I am leaning towards OBJ holders being durable above all else and leaving the killing at all to others. 

 

Becoming more American football where you have separate Offense and Defense (and Special Teams) players on your team as opposed to futbol or basketball or hockey or other sports where everyone is expected to do at least some offense/defense at all times. 

[Shaezus]

I would absolutely love to run heavy intercessors. 10 with executors and executor HBs. Not just more durability but also higher S and longer range firepower.

 

x kills y will always be a thing. There's always something out there which can kill any one thing you bring.

 

With the prevalence of army - wide obsec and rites of war however, imho troops are more just tax now than ever.

 

But if you're gonna have something in the list, it's gotta do SOMETHING.

 

Infiltrators win for me. The helix and guerilla warfare strat along with smokescreen and transhuman give them durability and mobility beyond what tacticals and even intercessors can achieve.

 

Ultimately it comes down to your list and the secondaries you will take most

[Helias_Tancred]

Going forward I'm leaning towards two 5 man Intercessor squads equipped with the standard bolt rifle or the auto bolt rifle, and a 10 man squad of Assault Intercessors to round out my troop req. I also still like to use 5 man tactical squads with combi-flamer and heavy flamer in certain infantry-heavy situations.

 

I really like everything about Heavy Intercessors except the cost, AND because I'm a bit of a rule of cool > power player [to the end], just what you stated they are more the style of Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, etc.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Helias Tancred

[Vermintide]

Good post, I think about stuff like this a lot. I think the way is finding the right balance of troops to heavy lifting elites, fast attack etc. In 8th troops really were, in essence, a tax; but in 9th it's more like HQs are the tax, I feel. Objectives are important enough that troops really have a strong role of their own, they're not just bodies you are forced to bring any more.

 

But besides that, from a more general tactical point of view, you have to consider that the more bodies you have on the board, the more your enemy has to work at grinding you down. I had theorised during 8th, when armies like ours were struggling in a very shooty meta, that many people were focussing too much on hyper-elite armies with 4-5 characters, and too little staying power. Those days where the common wisdom seemed to be using 3 MSU scout squads to unlock the CP- It was points efficient, but in reality most opponents would blow those Scouts off the table just by sneezing, and everything else in your army bore the brunt of the enemy's firepower. If you have more, and more durable, troops sat on objectives, your enemy has to dedicate resources they'd probably prefer to be putting into your killy units.

 

In the lists I've been theory crafting for 9th I'm struggling to feel good about anything less than 4 intercessor squads. Taking 3 would give me room for more toys, but I feel like 2 Assault squads to push up, with 2 bolt rifle squads to hold the back lines is the sweet spot. We have a lot of options though, if they didn't look like so much effort to paint I'd probably be all about using Incursors as my main troop choice, and clog the middle of the board with 20 power armoured guys from the word go, for a much more aggressive play.

 

Besides that though, we now have troops that actually can do work. Weight of dice alone makes assault intercessors pretty scary, considering Red Thirst, and especially if you have a Priest to support them. That stratagem to put blood chalice on two units at once? Plus the FNP aura? I mean, they're pretty much death company at that point, in your troops slot. If he also happens to be a master apothecary, reviving for free, you're playing BA with troops of practically Necron durability. If you have the option of not just choosing between offense and durability, but can instead have both, I think that's an easy decision to make. Incidentally, none of my lists in 8th managed to fit a Priest in, but he's in every one I've made for 9th so far.

 

The Priest is the key to all of this, if we can get him working. He's a buffier character than we've had before.

[Xenith]

I think marines are plenty durable as they are, with the 9th terrain rules. In cover you're often looking at -1 to hit or +1 save, which means they can stand upto stuff better than before. I've had an ok time running infiltrators at the back - even a 5 man unit spread out casts a massive no-go bubble for enemy reserves, and the helix adept is money. 

 

Heavy intercessors might do some work here, as they have access to strats like transhuman and the gravis one (I forget, ignore ap-1?) so you can pop both on them if you think they might be overwhelmed. I think a unit of 5 with the longer range guns would be a decent backfield camper. Stronger than the unit of 5 int's with stalkers that I often see. On the 5 HI vs 7 Ints, we also have the blast rule, which protects the smaller squad better. 

[Gloomfoe]

The priest is a beast. I just played a game vs some martians with knight support. 5 bladeguard vets next to the priest tanked an entire round of shooting from his entire shooty list. A knight with the relic gatling gun, two phosphor robots shooting twice, and three battle servitor squads. Overall the priest returned 3 bladeguard vets and a thunder hammer terminator...150 points!!! Not to mention all the wounds he healed.

 

I give him a jump pack, selfless healer WL trait, and the armor indomitus.

[Karhedron]

I give him a jump pack, selfless healer WL trait, and the armor indomitus.

I can't think of a better buffing character in 9th to be honest and he suits our elite+ style of play very well.

 

I use the same loadout. The other option I have seen is Selfless Healer and Teeth of Terra so he can actually contribute to hitting stuff. Then use the stratagem to give him Artisan of War WLT so he can also take Artificer Armour. A lot killier but a bit squishier. Personally I think the Armour Indomitus is better as +1W and a one-off 3++ is important protection as the Priest is a bit fragile with just 4W (even if he carries his own 6+++ and healing ability).

[Xenith]

Heavy Intercessors/any Gravis armoured dudes are also great targets for Combat Revival/Priest Healing. 

[Karhedron]

Heavy Intercessors/any Gravis armoured dudes are also great targets for Combat Revival/Priest Healing.

True enough but backfield units can be supported by a Sanguinary Novitiate. They are less likely to move so you don't need the investment in a Jump Pack and are not really built for melee so the Grail is less relevant.

 

Healing can usefully be spread around but the Res stratagem is once per turn alas, no matter how many Apothecaries we have. For this reason, I would normally only bring one and my jump units tend to get first dibs. My Plasmaceptors love this guy too as he can help deal with any little "accidents" when they overcharge.

[Warhead01]

I've been thinking about something similar to the op question.  
For me, playing only Primaris units, I think I like minimum squad sizes for my Intercessors. The issue I am coming to think about is just what do I leave on any back field objectives and just how prevalent are deep or back field objectives. I see operational distances. The data sheet itself, for Intercessors sort of tells me what I need to put where just based on which weapons load out the squad has. I have yet to try out my assault intercessors ad can see them used to taking an objective away from an enemy unit to prevent them from scoring more than I can see them scoring an objective for me. I just need them to void out enemy control where a more elite unit would get bogged down and take too long to clear the area. The more elite unit should be free to do cool kid stuff, not stand around. I also think using more than one troop type is a good idea. Primaris have 5 to choose from. 
Lastly, I guess, there is a warlord trait that turns a unit objective secured and that can make a difference. I have tried it on blade guard because they were going to be used for a big push onto the far side of the table but my first thoughts in general was to up grade an apothecary with that trite and have him buff some Hellblasters from the back field. 
It depends on the army build and the mission. 
It's still early days for me with 9th and right now min/maxing in a way feels like playing as intended but I find that I want a little of everything in my list. I've always been a fan of troop units and really like that Intercessors can dish out a lot of hurt on the table, working with the tactical doctrines. Well, so far so good anyway.