VAT charges on deliveries from the UK

[Black Knight]

Can anyone verify or have heard any rumours on VAT being charged on top of any orders received in Europe from a UK Seller? All the online stores are still charging the normal UK VAT but I heard now that customs across the EU are charging their VAT again on top as well as admin fees.

 

Has anyone experienced anything yet?

[lhg033]

there was this:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/23/an-update-on-warhammer-releases-in-2021/

 

"

Brexit

Good news – Warhammer fans in the EU won’t have to pay more for our products in-store or online as we head into the new year. While the details of the UK’s future relationship with the EU are still being worked out, Games Workshop will shoulder any customs and duties fees that apply to your order."

 

Not seen anything since and there is a deal now so it may have changed

 

I imagine third parties wont be doing the above so discounts may not be as great now

Edited January 14, 2021 by lhg033

[Black Knight]

From what I can figure out is that if its done properly then there shouldn't be any extra cost. The problem is the retailer you are buying from has to not charge you UK VAT and then pay for a delivery company that takes that money saved and pays customs the VAT charge on your end.

 

This can't be good for the online retailers, don't they make a big part of their money from the EU?

[Halandaar]

As far as I understand it (and I almost certainly don't fully), being charged your local VAT is correct, but you shouldn't also be paying UK VAT when you buy from the retailer. I guess the complications of implementing it are why a lot of UK retailers are simply not shipping to the EU any more, and a lot of the rest simply haven't differentiated from UK and EU customers yet.

 

The admin charges are for import declarations which couriers are completing on behalf of the importer (i.e. you) and then charging you for it. Although GW has said they'll be covering the charges so you don't pay any more, I'm not really sure how that's actually working out.

[Bat33.1]

The way it should work is as follows - UK store removes VAT then adds shipping costs, courier then adds around £4.50 handling charge for extra paperwork and admin, at least that's what TNT and others that are shipping to EU are charging on top of shipping costs. Then once it arrives in the EU country there is an £8 admin charge and local VAT added on. For example Sweden charges 25% VAT where the UK rate is 20%. 

 

I am unsure if that £8 charge is by the carrier or local customs but it's exactly the charge that Royal Mail add as a handling charge for adding VAT for non EU packages prior to 31st December '20 and it can be for as little as a few pence of VAT but the flat £8 is charged by RM.

 

GW are sucking up the costs involved given that statement but I would not be surprised if they open a distribution warehouse somewhere in the EU in the near future.

[klisof]

If it is like the royal mail handling charge then it can vary for different delivery companies. The company collecting the VAT is able to charge a "reasonable" amount as the handling charge.

Parcel force charges £12 instead.

[Bat33.1]

There was also a change in the EU VAT collection for imports at the start of 2021, the De Minimis thresholds which VAT exempted some low value imports have been removed and set at zero so all imports must pay VAT at point of entry at the local rate no matter the value of the shipment.

 

The US De Minimis rate has moved up to $800 from $200 recently.

 

There may also be issues for UK imports such as those from Kromlech as the UK now requires a company such as Kromlech selling into the UK direct to register for VAT in the UK and many EU companies that deal in low volumes are just pulling the plug and saying no to UK buyers.

[Mendi Warrior]

I'm extremely interested getting feedback from people having recently ordered from both GW and third parties in the UK for delivery within the EU, especially to Belgium.

 

For those interested here is a link to the Q&A published on the EU Commission website: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_2532

 

My understanding reading the "Trade in Goods" section is that there are no tarifs levied (so import duties = 0) but all imports are subject to customs formalities and local VAT applies.

 

For parcels delivered via Bpost, you can check the following link https://www.bpost.be/en/receive-parcel/customs

 

There are typically three elements to take into account: (1) customs formalities + (2) VAT + (3) import duties

 

(1) customs formalities: typically a flat fee charged by the delivery company (e.g. national postal services, FedEx, DHL, ...) covering the paperwork but also the costs for the delivery company of paying upfront on your behalf the VAT and import duties to the tax authorities

 

(2) VAT: the VAT rate applicable to the type of goods you are importing, typically the normal rate is applied but some types of goods can benefit from a reduced rate, always best to check and have the corresponding tarif code to be explicitly indicated in the paperwork (e.g. books, antiquities, works of art, ... have reduced rates in some countries), if not mistaken the amount due is computed on both value of the goods and their shipping costs

 

(3) import duties: the applicable tarif, in the present case = 0 thanks to the UK - EU deal

 

For Belgium, parcels delivered via Bpost will have no additional costs if the shipment's value is up to €22, from €22 to €150, you'll pay €24 for customs formalities and VAT (normal rate is 21%), and with a shipment's value above €150, you'll pay €32 for customs formalities and both VAT (21%) and import duties.

 

Under Taxes and Charges - EU Shipments (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Taxes-and-Charges), GW mentions that deliveries will be made under shipping terms delivery duty paid, which results in GW covering VAT and import duties. I'm not sure this exempts you from paying costs for customs formalities.

 

For products ordered from third parties, unless the UK VAT is subtracted before paying, I'm afraid there will be double taxation.

 

I'd ask the question to my usual third party suppliers.

 

I think knowing the minimum costs for customs formalities is extremely relevant when ordering bits for conversions, as most are sent via Royal Mail and delivered by our respective national postal services.

[EmpiricalReed]

I'm extremely interested getting feedback from people having recently ordered from both GW and third parties in the UK for delivery within the EU, especially to Belgium.

 

I think you've laid things out pretty well there Mendi Warrior.

 

I'm in Ireland but up until Brexit I ordered almost all my hobby stuff from Element Games in the UK - doing period big orders worked out well for me as their RRP discounts meant I still came out ahead after factoring in shipping and exchange rate.

 

In the back half of last year I rolled over to ordering direct from GW, partly because of their voucher promotion and partly because I had a horrible feeling things were going to get exactly as bad as they are with the new UK/EU VAT and customs arrangements.

 

So I suppose that, even though GW has an Irish arm and lets me order in Euros, my costs have gone up (as GW don't do regular discounting) but not by as much as they otherwise would have if I kept ordering from Element. And I know I don't have to worry about any customs faff on my end with the delivery courier. GW have even kept their free shipping threshold on orders at €25 rather than the pre-pandemic €50 which has worked out really well for me.

 

I know GW has gotten a lot of :cuss over some of their practices in the past but I think they way they've handled their side of the situation has been really good. 

 

So far, the only problem I've had is orders being delayed but that's really across the board for most retailers I think. I ordered a Chaplain-on-Bike and Assault Intercessors in November and Incubi in December and they've haven't shipped yet.

 

I feel a bit bad about stopping ordering from Element - they were always well priced and really helpful, but I just don't want to risk getting slapped with extra charges, especially as a lot of businesses still haven't been able to get their own policies straight on what they should/should not be doing.

[theSpirea]

This is something I was also trying to figure out so I reached out to GW support and here's a reply I received:

 

I can confirm that you will not need to pay any import taxes or duty fees when ordering directly through us. If a situation does arise where you are charged import taxes, please do contact us and we will be able to resolve that for you.

 

GW can easily cover it since the conversion rate they use for GBP-EUR has been ripping Europeans off for years. Another reason GW can take this step is many, if not majority, of European customers will very likely stop ordering from the UK LGS, such as Element, Alchemist, etc. due to applicable import tax/duties and other fees; making it more expensive than directly from GW.

 

I still have to order from GW to verify it as I have a feeling it's not going to be that simple and the packages might be stopped at customs, asking for additional paperwork/proof the import tax/duties were handled by the seller.

Edited January 15, 2021 by theSpirea

[Mendi Warrior]

The things I wrote are rather theoretical. I haven't ordered anything yet since the start of the year so I don't know what to really expect.

 

In another area of collection, I recently bought two old books at an auction in Switzerland, I paid about EUR 55 in total (hammer price + buyer's premium), with shipping being offered. When the postman rang the bell to deliver the books, he asked me to pay approximately €28 in customs fees, of which €24 were for covering the customs formalities and the rest was the actual import VAT (calculated at the correct reduced rate of 6%). I knew there would be additional costs but I was surprised by the cost of customs formalities.

 

Anyway, I'll try to get more info, and if some of you have hard data don't hesitate to let us know.

[Black Knight]

On a related note I got my missing 5 copies of White Dwarf last night, no extra cost and it did have a customs declaration on it. I know it is different as books are seen differently in most countries but there were no extra charges.

 

The only different thing was the remarkably good packaging they came in. I could run over it in a lorry and the magazines would of been ok.

 

Also this morning I asked Wayland about cancelling my order and they did say they are working with couriers to sort it out and that any extra charged would be covered by them but I have no idea if that's because I ordered several weeks ago or not. They do seem to be trying to sort the issue though.

 

What annoys me the most is that no one, even the Governments themselves have a strait answer and we have to figure it out ourselves.

[Black Knight]

Also it looks like anything under £20 is free from UK VAT and the country you are ordering from, bit like how anything I have ordered from China has worked in the last few years.

 

I just ordered a cheap £16 board game from Amazon UK and they have all this set up with the import duties charged at checkout so you pay nothing at delivery. AT £16 they say its supposed to turn up without fuss so I will come back when it arrives in 3 days.

[theSpirea]

Also it looks like anything under £20 is free from UK VAT and the country you are ordering from, bit like how anything I have ordered from China has worked in the last few years.

 

I just ordered a cheap £16 board game from Amazon UK and they have all this set up with the import duties charged at checkout so you pay nothing at delivery. AT £16 they say its supposed to turn up without fuss so I will come back when it arrives in 3 days.

 

I believe this 22 EUR exception is also going to change soon for UK-EU:

https://www.accountancyeurope.eu/publications/vat-customs-duty-and-brexit-prepare-now/

[pawl]

If it's of any interest I've emailed Element Games, had an initial response and have sent a follow up reply.

If there's anything solid in their next response I'll post it here. =]

 

Edit - details;

 

EG will not be increasing their EU postage rates.

They can/will refund UK VAT on EU orders.

They will not be covering import/customs fees, and these will be payable by the customer on delivery.

Edited January 15, 2021 by pawl

[Mendi Warrior]

I got a similar answer from EG as well. Refund of the UK VAT would be on the card or paypal account which made the payment.

 

I also suggested the possibility of subtracting the UK VAT at payment time based on the delivery adress (as goods leaving the UK are considered exports) and also of communicating their process/policy/position to their European customers as we are quite a few with questions.

[theSpirea]

If it's of any interest I've emailed Element Games, had an initial response and have sent a follow up reply.

If there's anything solid in their next response I'll post it here. =]

 

Edit - details;

 

EG will not be increasing their EU postage rates.

They can/will refund UK VAT on EU orders.

They will not be covering import/customs fees, and these will be payable by the customer on delivery.

 

That's great to hear but I hope they can implement a solution that UK VAT is not even charged on EU orders. It's unnecessary hassle to pay it and then have it refunded. What's UK VAT rate on books?

[pawl]

 

 

If it's of any interest I've emailed Element Games, had an initial response and have sent a follow up reply.

If there's anything solid in their next response I'll post it here. =]

 

Edit - details;

 

EG will not be increasing their EU postage rates.

They can/will refund UK VAT on EU orders.

They will not be covering import/customs fees, and these will be payable by the customer on delivery.

That's great to hear but I hope they can implement a solution that UK VAT is not even charged on EU orders. It's unnecessary hassle to pay it and then have it refunded. What's UK VAT rate on books?

I suggested some form of "non-UK discount" code, but it would appear that's not on the cards. Possibly due to their software not supporting it, possibly because of how tax is applied, possibly something else entirely.

What I didn't think to ask was whether the refund would be to your card/account or whether it would be in the form of credit - in the past I have amended orders to remove items and had the cost given back in crystals (reward points, essentially). Not an issue for me at the time, but if it was potentially 20% of an order that could end up being a lot of money!

 

Books are (I believe) zero-rated for tax. This may be part of why a simple discount code wouldn't work, as their system might not be able to identify between a book (0%) and a box of plastic (20%?)

 

It certainly doesn't help that their shop software seems to be a little antiquated.

[TPS]

I'm extremely interested getting feedback from people having recently ordered from both GW and third parties in the UK for delivery within the EU, especially to Belgium.

 

There are typically three elements to take into account: (1) customs formalities + (2) VAT + (3) import duties

 

(1) customs formalities: typically a flat fee charged by the delivery company (e.g. national postal services, FedEx, DHL, ...) covering the paperwork but also the costs for the delivery company of paying upfront on your behalf the VAT and import duties to the tax authorities

 

(2) VAT: the VAT rate applicable to the type of goods you are importing, typically the normal rate is applied but some types of goods can benefit from a reduced rate, always best to check and have the corresponding tarif code to be explicitly indicated in the paperwork (e.g. books, antiquities, works of art, ... have reduced rates in some countries), if not mistaken the amount due is computed on both value of the goods and their shipping costs

 

(3) import duties: the applicable tarif, in the present case = 0 thanks to the UK - EU deal

 

I think knowing the minimum costs for customs formalities is extremely relevant when ordering bits for conversions, as most are sent via Royal Mail and delivered by our respective national postal services.

You got it right! I live outside the EU (actually, sort of inside, as in: in the hole of the EU shaped donut), so anything I order from abroad has to go through customs. So far, I have used 2 different ways of handling customs:

 

Version 1:

- The retailer doesn't charge me VAT

- The delivery service bringing in the product does all customs formalities and also pays the needed VAT/import duties

- The delivery service charges me for the formalities, as well as for the VAT/import duties they advanced.

This is how GW does it when I order from their webstore.

 

Version 2:

- The retailer charges me VAT

- The delivery service bringing in the product does customs formalities, pays VAT/import duties

- The delivery service charges me for formalities/VAT/Import duties

- I provide the retailer with a proof of having exported the product out of their country and receive a refund for the VAT

[Bat33.1]

There is also this Big Changes to De Minimis Thresholds for EU Member States - Ramon Abalo which explains how EU countries are reducing the De Minimis VAT to zero so those China shipments will be charged VAT and a handling fee no matter how small the order. The EU is currently losing €7 billion per year from imports that are below the old €22 threshold this has now been set at €0 from Jan 1 2021 

[Mendi Warrior]

@TPS: Version 1 is the easiest system imho (you fall under the Rest of World Shipments in GW Taxes and Charges).

 

What I didn't think to ask was whether the refund would be to your card/account or whether it would be in the form of credit - in the past I have amended orders to remove items and had the cost given back in crystals (reward points, essentially). Not an issue for me at the time, but if it was potentially 20% of an order that could end up being a lot of money!

 

My exact same concern when asking them. Glad they answered it would be a refund to the Paypal account or credit card used for the initial payment. This might still leave some FX risks but is way better than receiving reward points. Also, I would have preferred they went for not charging UK VAT in the first place.

 

Waylandgames pointed me to their new EU shipping information page https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/content/182-eu-shipping-information

They decided to go for the DDP method, hence charging you your local VAT rate when ordering. Reading their page, I guess costs for customs formalities could be charged as local handling charges (if yes, I'll have a minimum of €24 to add to every order delivered by the Belgian postal services). One point of attention: the possibility for duties being levied on items manufactured outside of the UK/EU. Wondering about the treatment of some GW products being manufactured in China. I have no clue there.

 

I also asked FW, especially raising the point about costs for customs formalities. I'll update once they reply (within 5 days it seems).

[Elzender]

Thank you very much for the explanations guys, specially to Mendi Warrior as I'm also currently living in Belgium :D

 

Those customs formalities are pricy though, I guess I'm going to have to think very well from where I place orders from now on. And I sure hope FW also applies the same criteria as GW main, it really doesn't need to get even more expensive

Edited January 20, 2021 by Elzender

[Black Knight]

I have just received the game from Amazon, under 20 seems to work for Amazon until July at least.

 

With regards to Wayland when you order now it has updated its shipping choice to include the collection of Tax at the point of sale so you shouldn't receive any problems when it arrives at your end. Problem is I cannot test this as I have two orders with them and the items are out of stock.

 

Dam you Primaris Tech-Marine, if it wasn't for you I would know!

[Mendi Warrior]

Thank you very much for the explanations guys, specially to Mendi Warrior as I'm also currently living in Belgium

 

Those customs formalities are pricy though, I guess I'm going to have to think very well from where I place orders from now on. And I sure hope FW also applies the same criteria as GW main, it really doesn't need to get even more expensive

 

You're welcome   Bpost customs formalities are indeed pricey, I think I'll go for larger size orders instead of several smaller ones so as to avoid being hit multiple times.

 

I have just received the game from Amazon, under 20 seems to work for Amazon until July at least.

 

With regards to Wayland when you order now it has updated its shipping choice to include the collection of Tax at the point of sale so you shouldn't receive any problems when it arrives at your end. Problem is I cannot test this as I have two orders with them and the items are out of stock.

 

Dam you Primaris Tech-Marine, if it wasn't for you I would know!

 

Just wondering if you would not be better to cancel these two orders and merge them into a single one, I'm afraid you might be hit twice with costs for customs formalities.

 

I'll try getting an answer from Bpost regarding potential costs they would charge for items sent DDP (obviously their answer would only be valid for Belgium).

 

On dakkadakka, there is also a thread on this topic (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795438.page). So far, the same questions and no definite answers. Only two experiences with some actual numbers were shared, with one guy being hit with an additional 30% in Lithuania (with likely double taxation) and one guy from Slovenia being hit with €21 extra costs.

 

I'll probably do a test with the new AT titan that will be revealed this Saturday.

 

No clear answer from FW other than "if you are hit with additional customs fees let us know so we can have a look and pay on your behalf, don't pay before asking us". As my question was focused on the costs for customs formalities, I'm still not sure they would cover this, as it is neither VAT nor duties.

 

Anyway, the example I used was:  "if I were to order 2x Adeptus Titanicus: Mechanicum Cerastus Knights Atrapos @ €50 each, would I have to just pay €100 at checkout and enjoy them being freely delivered or would I have to pay €100 at checkout and then an additional €24 to Bpost for customs formalities when the postman would ring the bell to deliver the package?".

 

I envision a lot of number crunching on a case-by-case basis ... and in any case, it will cost me more than before Brexit.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Mendi Warrior

[gorg_graggel]

Wayland has actually set up an info page explaining things somewhat. Some of that info applies to other shops as well.

 

https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/content/182-eu-shipping-information

 

Edit:

Ah nvm, didn't see the link was already posted. Was buried in a lot of text and I'm on mobile...

Edited January 21, 2021 by gorg_graggel