Unit of the week series: Plague Marines

[KingYertle]

For clarity, I was being sarcastic about the loss of the 5+++ speeding up the game.  I am in the camp that the change to DR eliminated a lot of the "Fun" of playing Death Guard.  Plague Marines play like old first born loyalist marines but with a less interesting doctrines.  The rarity in which DR factors into Plague Marines on the table has stolen the heart of what made the faction unique.  

[Azekai]

Agreed. T5 used to be a big deal- S4 only got your PMs wounded on 5+, and S3 only got you on 6+. That went away, and now we don't even have our good old FnP.  Then, as I was concerned about, the powercreep took off only a couple of books later, after us, marines and crons. Its *almost* like they aren't interested in a balanced game. If you look at the tournament level, it seems straight up pay to win, but even for garage games I would hate to unleash some of these codexes on my friends.

It feels really bad when it seems like they went out of their way to limit synergies and choice in our book and then admech come out with so much stackable synergy they can sweep the table with over buffed skitarii.

[McElMcNinja]

The new DR might save the DG player time rolling dice, but when your opponents use multi-damage weapons (i.e. d3 or d6) they have to roll them one at a time, subtract 1, check to see if they killed a model, repeat. If we happen to have the surgeon nearby they have to pause while we roll our FNP. Just an observation.

 

Now I, like others, have a nice collection of Plague Marines and want to play them, but I play more towards the competitive side. I have access to the drop pod, I also have a drill, and a couple rhinos. Transports are nice, but once they are exposed they pretty much die. So we only get one good punch with them before we lose all the points invested. On top of that seasoned players will screen them out, making it even more difficult to get our points back.

As an example in one list I have 740 points invested in 10 PMs, 2 characters, and the drill. When they pop out they kill their target(s) which is great, but it’s not 740 points worth. Then in my opponents turn they can commit very little dealing with them and in the end I may have killed only half of what it cost me. An alternative is to spend an extra 50 points and bring 20 Blightlords. While they may not kill as much the turn they arrive my opponent will have to commit way more dealing with them and I should earn their point back.

I am going to play a few games with the drop pod, being able to do a turn 1 strike might make a big enough difference to be worth it.

[Plague _Lord]

Even rhough I am in the camp of plagie marine bashing (they/their upgrades need to be cheaper) I have had much success with my plague marines in a competitive enivironment. I allways play a 10 man swuad with max shootiness next to a tallyman with relic. They hit on a 2+ with rerolls from a lord or DP you are getting a lot of D2 hits on elite targets. Last game against orks they took out ~ 10 boyz, 5MANZ and a gretchin kannon, while also holding an objective and scoring engage for me. The thing is that no one shoots them untill late in the game cause I have a 10man blightlord unit pushing the centre and from turn 2 I drop in some deathshroud so the enemy allways ignores my plaguemarines and they can shoot stuff up with overcharged plasma.

 

I think next game I will go terminus est and posibly try out a fully kitted CC squad comming out of deepstrike.

[Relentless]

I've had a lot of success with what I like to call the bomb squad.  I put a 5man squad (can do barebones but I like adding CC weapons) and a biologus in a rhino.  They hop out, use the blightening strat to nuke a unit off an objective and then charge in and use foul infusion (and usually trench fighters) to clear any survivors.  Lots of fun and tends to catch your opponent off guard if they're not familiar with DG

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Last couple of games I've played 3 full strength squads and they usually work well for me

 

Usually one squad is shooting support (3 plas/ 2 blight launchers), and the other 2 rock a selection of weapons for close combat.

 

Generally speaking if they outnumber regular space marines (without significant number of power weapons) they kick their ass in close combat.

 

My thoughts are that they are not Bad choices there are just more efficient options available.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Wolf Lord Loki

[Plague _Lord]

I think plague marine value is decreasing with each new dex:

 

Deldar - they can get past our toughness with poison attacks and mass dmg 1 attacks.

Admech - vanguard can delete a PM squad with ease.

 

Let's add to the fact that most armies are getting damage reduction on their best units - DA knights, ork vechicles, dreadnaughts, sisters suits and so on... so our DMG 2 dealing plague marines are going to be really bad. Plasma guns in general are in a bad place. They used to be spammable and really powerfull but now dmg 2 isn't that good and you still have the chance to kill yourself. Plasma guns either need to be cheaper or more potent because 10 points that against a lot of targets is going to 1dmg AND you still have a chance to kill yourself is just meh. Either let them have 3 shots like the hellblaster version or  up the strength by one (str 9 would be worth risking the loss of a plague marine) cause at the moment plasma is just meh.

 

They also would be better if our rhinos would get DR (like the 1ksons got a 5++) - reliably getting them upfield would boost their power a lot.

[KingYertle]

Troop Choice to Troop Choice I think the Plague Marine is fundamentally fine.  For example, in my most recent narrative battle report a unit of 7 did manage to survive 30 bolter rounds and being charged by 3 Blade Guard (well 1 and a half as they split their attacks).

 

At the moment they are just handicapped by paying too high a premium for DR and their special weapons.  At 18 points (100 points for 5 and 1 special weapon) I think they would have some real potential.

 

However when you look at the troop support being offered by other 9th edition codex's it does appear that our codex author did them a disservice with the gear restrictions and lack of defensive support.  

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I had a game last week and I had a total of 30 plague marine. I must have still had half of them left at the end of a 5 turn game Vs Imperial Fist Astartes.

 

They are expensive. But now I think their role has fundimentally changed. To be at their best they need to be pushing forward and getting stuck in in Melee. If we are using them to sit on objectives then we are probably doing it wrong- we have cultists and poxwalkers for that.