Paragon Warsuit Previewed Today

[ThePenitentOne]

I feel like that's a waste of a 6 lol, use any 3s for faith and fury.

It's 8 guaranteed damage against a high toughness no invulnerable save vehicle. If I needed less than 8 damage to pop my target, obviously I wouldn't waste a six. But when I need 8 or more, it's not a waste.

[Banjulhu]

 

I feel like that's a waste of a 6 lol, use any 3s for faith and fury.

It's 8 guaranteed damage against a high toughness no invulnerable save vehicle. If I needed less than 8 damage to pop my target, obviously I wouldn't waste a six. But when I need 8 or more, it's not a waste.

 

 

The stratagem allows the use of the miracle dice used in place of the to hit roll for the to wound roll as well not the weapons damage roll after successfully wounding, which is why in most cases with Faith and Fury it's better to use up a 3 dice with a Multi-melta.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Banjulhu

[SkimaskMohawk]

Pretty much that^

 

If you have the triumph or a simulacrum you can still burn a 6 for the damage roll after they probably fail their save.

[ThePenitentOne]

Totally misread the strat- you're right- likely don't need a bonus on a wound roll.

[toaae]

If I was a betting man, and I certainly am, I would hedge my money that these will be Infantry. Just seems to fit how GW is making stuff these days.

[Indefragable]

Delayed reaction, but it suddenly occurred to me that these things might be a great addition to the Fast Attack slot. 

 

Hear me out.

 

There seems to be an assumption floating around that the Paragon War Suit will be a Terminator equivalent: a super-heavy-infantry high-resilience smashy unit. However, staring at the images it suddenly occurred to me that this could make for an interesting Fast Attack unit. The more I look at it, the more I see an exo-skeleton with a huge power-plant behind the operator more than Sorotias-ified Terminator suit. The longer limbs that are still relatively thin and such makes me think somewhere between the existing Pentinent engine tech, the Dunestriders of the AdMech (FA), and Scout Sentinels for IG (FA). Put that all together, powered elongated limbs for longer strides and no cardiovascular endurance needed makes me think these could be a SoB kinda-sorta equivalent to bikes or Scout Sentinels (or something in between).

 

Or maybe that's just my fantasy, hoping for something to go into the FA slot instead of the already overcrowded Elites section. 

[War Angel]

That would be really cool

[ThePenitentOne]

Assumptions about similarities between Paragons and Terminators are confusing to me.

 

These things are walkers; they will be more similar to Penitent Engines and Mortifiers than anything else in the game. I'm just really not sure how anyone can look at the three kits side by side and think, "Yeah, one of these kits will be like Terminators, even though the other two have NOTHING in common with Terminators."

 

That doesn't mean that it won't be Fast Attack; it could be- Mortifiers are M9, Penitent Engines are M7, so if they DO make them FA, they'd have to add a rule most likely rather than change the stat- maybe something like the unit can charge after advancing, or they don't roll advances but get a set distance. Maybe even give them a scout move like Doms.

 

We have 4 Heavy Support choices right now; the Castigator will likely be make that 5. We only have 2 Fast Attacks. This would make sense.

[sitnam]

I don't really see the similarities with PE's either though. PE's are large, bulky, and almost crude looking. They (for good reason) offer their pilots no protection, and mostly act as close combat berserkers.

 

The Paragons don't match Terminators in form, but in function they have several similarities. Super heavy infantry for heavy infantry factions. Bigger guns, better protection, and more elite users. Whereas Terminators lean toward protection, Paragons definitely feel like they will be more agile (which makes a good argument for Fast Attack).

 

Honestly though, now that I thought about it, I'm starting to get a Tau Crisis Suit vibe from Paragons. More then likely no jump packs, but they are exoskeleton suits with high protection, firepower, and mobility.

 

I won't be surprised if they end up being walkers, but just in my gut I see heavy infantry when I see Paragons. Interesting to note, Battlesuits arent classified as vehicle walker or infantry, so perhaps Paragons get their own classification

Edited April 16, 2021 by sitnam

[Malakithe]

It will be either Heavy or Elite. The problem is there is too many Heavy and Elite choices now. Zephyrim need to be moved to Fast in order to make room for new Halberd Celestians as well. Castigator is obviously a battle tank in the Heavy slot. With the potential of what looks like at least 2 heavy weapons choices and massive melee weapon im guessing the Paragon will be a Heavy choice as well. 

[ThePenitentOne]

I don't really see the similarities with PE's either though. PE's are large, bulky, and almost crude looking. They (for good reason) offer their pilots no protection, and mostly act as close combat berserkers.

 

The Paragons don't match Terminators in form, but in function they have several similarities. Super heavy infantry for heavy infantry factions. Bigger guns, better protection, and more elite users. Whereas Terminators lean toward protection, Paragons definitely feel like they will be more agile (which makes a good argument for Fast Attack).

 

Honestly though, now that I thought about it, I'm starting to get a Tau Crisis Suit vibe from Paragons. More then likely no jump packs, but they are exoskeleton suits with high protection, firepower, and mobility.

 

I won't be surprised if they end up being walkers, but just in my gut I see heavy infantry when I see Paragons. Interesting to note, Battlesuits arent classified as vehicle walker or infantry, so perhaps Paragons get their own classification

 

The bit about battlesuits is cool- I've never read a Tau dex or played against a Tau army, so I didn't know that. And I could see that as a designation appropriate to the Paragon.

 

I posted a side by side of a Paragon and Mortifier. The knees, hips, shoulders and top of the head are all at the exact same height and the stance and shoulders are equally wide. The Paragon looks lighter and more limber because the torso isn't rectangular; that is literally the only difference in size. I removed the pic from gallery to help clean it up the site a bit, otherwise I'd post it again.

 

The point about protection is certainly valid- neither the Penitent Engine nor the Mortifier were designed to protect the pilot, while the Paragon certainly was, and I suppose you are correct that this might be enough of a difference on it's own to assign a different battlefield role to the unit.

 

As for the PE being primarily a close combat berzerker, most certainly true; however it's not so clear when you consider Mortifiers- with the changes to heavy bolters, I actually prefer to let a unit of four sit back and take its 24 D2 shots. Despite the difference between that and the PE's, the two units are statistically similar and have the same keywords, with the exception of Adepta Sororitas.

 

I stand by my original assumption, however, you have presented a case that makes me see that my assumption is not the only possibility. My expectation is that this Sunday's weekly preview will confirm the Ad Mech preorder for next weekend; the following weekend will likely be an AoS/ Specialist release, but that Sunday's preview will tell us what the next dex is going to be.

 

Candidates include: Sisters or Orks (because of previews), Knights (because they are the only Charadon act 1 faction without a dex), CSM or Daemons (to capitalize on Be'Lakor hype). I'm hoping for Sisters. We've certainly had far more previewed than any of the other factions who are candidates. If our dex is as good as the Drukhari dex, I will breathe easy again. I am looking so forward to getting this dex, there aren't even words to describe it.

 

Edit: You can still see the pic I posted on page 2 of this thread.

Edited April 16, 2021 by ThePenitentOne