Morty, the Killable

[Ishagu]

No one has ever said he can't be killed. But in killing him, the opposing player will leave the rest of your army alone, and if they don't he'll be in combat with them very early due to the way missions funnel armies towards each other.

 

He's not broken, but he is powerful, and he can deal massive damage if not dealt with. That doesn't mean the rest of your any should do nothing or present no threats that distract from him as a target.

[Ishagu]

 

 

Look at those eradicators running around (and they get new seperate box...) I am not running morty until drowning them with zombies for 2 or 3 months.

They need a LOT of eradicators to get him...

15 Eradicators would do 11-13 wounds to him. They would cost far more too.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Ishagu

[jgascoine011]

 

 

Look at those eradicators running around (and they get new seperate box...) I am not running morty until drowning them with zombies for 2 or 3 months.

They need a LOT of eradicators to get him...

15 Eradicators would 11-13 wounds to him. They would cost far more too.

 

 

Depends on the chapter right?

1 units of 6 raven guard eradicators with 4 heavy melta rifles and 2 multi-meltas, and 1 unit if 3 with melta rifle with master artisan, deepstriking 12.1" away with a captain and lieutenant.

Assumin morty is -1 to hit, has gloming bloat, and his contagion range is 12" giving him his best survivable change.

Heavy Melta rifle squad would get 8 shots, hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s and re-rolling 2 misses, so around 6 hits, wounding on 3s (re-rolling 1s), so say 4 wounds, thats 2D6+4-2, for say 10 wounds,

MM would get the same number of shots, so another 2D6-2 wounds

Next unit gets 6 shots, for probably 6 hits, 4 wounds, 2D6-2, for maybe 3 wounds.

So about 21 wounds, for 14 damage after 5+++

 

Within 12"

8 shots with heavy melta rifies, 6 hit, 4 wound, 2 go through, for 2D6+8-2

8 Shots with MM, 6 hit, 4 wound, 2 goes through, for 2D6+4-2

6 shots with melta rifles, 4 hit, 2 wound, 1 goes through, for 1D6+2-1

So in total thats 24 wounds, and 16 after 5+++.

 

So yea, if he goes up against probably the best chapter to deal with him (and get to extend his aura to 12") then yea he survive and probably soaks up the entire armys shooting

Edited January 25, 2021 by jgascoine011

[Ishagu]

And he can also use abilities to mitigate the damage like Miasma.

If those Raven Guard Eradicators are teleporting in then you have the ability to screen them out.

 

Point is you have to be general with this and not focus too much on very specific combos that exist in a vacuum dependent on many things. Also RG are generally not as popular anymore.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Read the first post and glanced through the rest.

Seems like a lot of confirmation bias here, tbh.

The first 2 tests prove relatively little.

 

-You put him up against Deathwing Knights which are themselves considered to be overpowered and probably one of the most direct hardcounters to Morty (since they don't care about having their T reduced and he's still wounding them on 4's). 

 

-You also played someone who specifically list-tailored his Necron force, bringing two C'tan (also considered on the high end of the power spectrum.)  The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

 

on top of all that, you admitted that you used him recklessly/carelessly. 

 

So yeah...2 games against hard-counter/list tailoring opponents in which you did not use him properly.  

As Ishagu said above, 12 Eradicators (MORE than an ~ equal number of points) on Morty get 24 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 unsaved wounds, 12 pre DR damage, 9 post DR damage, and 6 actual damage after revoltingly resilient (+4 if they are within 12", and honestly, if that happened on turn 1 or turn 2, YOU made an error with Morty.)  Obviously, chapter tactics and such will vary the damage output, (but there is no chapter tactic that's going to double, let alone triple that damage).

[Special Officer Doofy]

Read the first post and glanced through the rest.

Seems like a lot of confirmation bias here, tbh.

The first 2 tests prove relatively little.

 

-You put him up against Deathwing Knights which are themselves considered to be overpowered and probably one of the most direct hardcounters to Morty (since they don't care about having their T reduced and he's still wounding them on 4's).

 

-You also played someone who specifically list-tailored his Necron force, bringing two C'tan (also considered on the high end of the power spectrum.) The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

 

on top of all that, you admitted that you used him recklessly/carelessly.

 

So yeah...2 games against hard-counter/list tailoring opponents in which you did not use him properly.

As Ishagu said above, 12 Eradicators (MORE than an ~ equal number of points) on Morty get 24 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 unsaved wounds, 12 pre DR damage, 9 post DR damage, and 6 actual damage after revoltingly resilient (+4 if they are within 12", and honestly, if that happened on turn 1 or turn 2, YOU made an error with Morty.) Obviously, chapter tactics and such will vary the damage output, (but there is no chapter tactic that's going to double, let alone triple that damage).

Haha I love the marine players coming in here and complaining. Morty can't even kill 5 Intercessors with Transhuman. Relax dude. Even without Transhuman, using his pistol and a smite, he kills 6.5 Intercessors with the scythe and another two from the pistol and spell. So 8.5, 170pts a turn. That's not much for being a 490pts model, that has to be the Warlord and can always be shot and almost never have cover. Dttfe was what made him the blender against marines, he lost that. 7 attacks that's it. He's not that bad. Every excuse you can come up with we can just say is your own confirmation bias as well.

 

Edit: grammar

Edited January 27, 2021 by Putrid Choir

[Iron Sage]

Note that this is the guy who insisted that Mortarion should be on average killable in a single round because a Baneblade was killable in a single round ignoring completely that a Baneblade is an Alpha Strike unit and that Mortarion can usually barely harm a plague fly in turn 1 if you go first, is no Alpha Strike unit, which obviously means that it is important for balance reasons that Mortarion is more durable.

He also now insists that an anecdote from 2 games is "proof" that Mortarion is unbalanced. His argument isn't the best and I doubt he has made much research.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Iron Sage

[Special Officer Doofy]

Note that this is the guy who insisted that Mortarion should be on average killable in a single round because a Baneblade was killable in a single round ignoring completely that a Baneblade is an Alpha Strike unit and that Mortarion can usually barely harm a plague fly in turn 1 if you go first, is no Alpha Strike unit, which obviously means that it is important for balance reasons that Mortarion is more durable.

He also now insists that an anecdote from 2 games is "proof" that Mortarion is unbalanced. His argument isn't the best and I doubt he has made much research.

Haha right. His whole thing is 490pts should be able to kill 490pts in a turn. That's not how death guard roll. Our punches are soft and slow, but we can take a punch better than anyone. I wonder if he ever considered that morty can only kill around 170pts himself a turn when it comes to marines. Not to mention he needs to be in melee with them to do anything, let alone his example can be shooting from 24" away, probably in cover hahaha.

 

Edit: Should we apologize that Morty is playable now, is that what they want? It's not like deathguard got a second codex during 8th with powerful supplements getting free stacking mono bonuses causing them to run the Meta for awhile while everyone got a soggy band-aid called "psychic awakening"...

Edited January 27, 2021 by Putrid Choir

[jgascoine011]

And he can also use abilities to mitigate the damage like Miasma.

If those Raven Guard Eradicators are teleporting in then you have the ability to screen them out.

 

Point is you have to be general with this and not focus too much on very specific combos that exist in a vacuum dependent on many things. Also RG are generally not as popular anymore.

I agree that RG have taken a fall from grace.

But that was with Morty being buffed up (-1 to hit, no-rerolls in 12”)

The reason the eradicators hit on 3’s is you use the strat to ignore movement penalties and then get +1 to hit/wound.

Without those buffs Morty does die so

And as I showed, you don’t need to be within 12” to do a lot of damage to him. And you are not screening him out of a 24” threat range.

But ok, iron warriors: 4 las cannons hitting on 2’s, wounding on 2’s re-rolling, double tapping and re-rolling damage, will again seriously hurt him.

Not saying he is bad at all, he is just balanced about right. The only thing is he is quite meta breaking and you may start to see some more serious anti-tank to deal with him

[9x19 Parabellum]

@Putrid Choir ; @Iron Sage

I also play Death Guard. I'm painting Poxwalkers as we speak:

And both of you have mis-represented my arguments.

I'm also able to admit that Eradicators are still probably undercosted, that the Apothecary + ATV thing was horse:cuss, that Plasceptors were too cheap, that Bladeguard Vets are STILL too cheap, that Aggressors were OP in 8th, that Iron Hands had multiple broken units and combos in 8th edition. There are other OP/out of balance things in the SM codex too.

In a given turn? Morty smites 1 Int. We'll say he miasma's himself with his other psychic.

Lantern kills another.

In close combat he charges a unit of Intercessors. Why he's doing that i'm not sure but let's say for argument's sake he does.

21 attacks with Reaping Scythe = 20 hits after he Primarch buffs himself. 10 wounds after Transhuman Physiology (more with Plague wep reroll), 1/3 get armor saved = 6 wounds = 3 dead intercessors. Dead intercessor unit and the SM player needlessly spent a CP for TP. Then Morty consolidates into another unit (because the board is smaller than ever before). Ok so yay, he killed 100 points of SM in one turn; I get your point but you also gave him the least valuable possible matchup. If he goes after land raider? Crunch. Terminators or any other unit that can't Transhuman = crunch. And he's debuffing the rest of the opponents army while this is all going on (and buffing his own).

Dude, I love Death Guard. I love Mortarion, too. But I can't stand it when people get myopia as it comes to evaluating "their" army. Morty's busted. Full stop. If a model single-handedly defines a meta, it's OP. The test of OP is not whether someone can find or build a counter to it. The test is whether a TAC list has a reasonable chance of dealing with that threat through deployment, priority targeting, maneuver, focusing on mission objectives, etc.

Edited January 27, 2021 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Special Officer Doofy]

Nah dude, you're not factoring in the fact that 95% of his use is in melee, which should be easy to avoid turn one with deployment alone (I would avoid my putting my vehicles anywhere near a turn one charge from morty). If you're ramming your repulsors into Mortarion, that's on you. He can't really hide and will pretty much never be in cover. No longer can have body guards. Lost dttfe. He's not defining any meta's yet. Codex has only been out for the general public for what, less than a week? He's not busted. He's just strong. I saw you posting in the marine forum complaining about him, so I assumed that's your main army since I never see you post here. If you have a TAC list that can deal with a melee knight, you can deal with Morty...

[9x19 Parabellum]

Nah dude, you're not factoring in the fact that 95% of his use is in melee, which should be easy to avoid turn one with deployment alone (I would avoid my putting my vehicles anywhere near a turn one charge from morty). If you're ramming your repulsors into Mortarion, that's on you. He can't really hide and will pretty much never be in cover. No longer can have body guards. Lost dttfe. He's not defining any meta's yet. Codex has only been out for the general public for what, less than a week? He's not busted. He's just strong. I saw you posting in the marine forum complaining about him, so I assumed that's your main army since I never see you post here. If you have a TAC list that can deal with a melee knight, you can deal with Morty...

 

Look, Putrid, I may very well be wrong.  My point in this thread is that the OP's "test" (McElMcNinja) doesn't prove anything to me.  First off the premise is wrong: The claim is not that he's literally UNKILLABLE. It's that he absorbs too much for his points.  So right off he's doing a bit of straw-manning (albeit, I think, not intentionally). Secondly, he sets up 2 games, neither of which really tests the hypothesis.  Even if they did test the hypothesis correctly....it's 2 games. 

Regarding deployment/spacing: I agree with you 100%. All I'm asking you to acknowledge is that in doing so, he's already affecting and defining the game.  Nothing up on the line for fear of Morty turn 1 charge?  Great, that means all those guns aren't in range, and you're not claiming midfield objectives. 

 

Regarding me: Yes, I'm primarily SM player. But I also play Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Imp Knights, Sisters and 4x Space Marine Chapters.  DG are my most recent army, started picking them up about 4 months ago. Only played 1 game with them.  I actually think one needs to play multiple armies in order to have a real cross-section perspective of each faction and how to play/beat it.

 

one last point I want to address:

 

If you have a TAC list that can deal with a melee knight, you can deal with Morty...

 

This is part of what I mean about confirmation bias or army myopia.  This is objectively not true.  Morty is objectively, statistically, 2-3x more durable than a knight against shooting, and several times more durable than a knight in close combat.

Edited January 27, 2021 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Marshal Loss]

Morty's busted. Full stop. If a model single-handedly defines a meta, it's OP.

 

Consensus among pros thus far, almost unanimously, is that he isn't busted.

 

Besides, this kind of kneejerk reaction doesn't have any basis in fact. The book was released less than a week ago and we haven't seen a single major tournament featuring the new Morty/DG. We're also at a very early stage of 9th's orbit; I don't think anybody would disagree that 9th's new books are a very different beast to 8th's. Even if defining a meta was the standard by which something can be labelled overpowered - and it shouldn't be, because it isn't - it is far too early to say that Mortarion is defining the meta. At the moment all we have to go by is the furious typing of a horde of 40k fans intent on rendering their verdicts on the latest book's hottest property with experiences drawn from at absolute best a relative handful of games that have, once again, taken place a mere handful of days after the book's actual release. We're all guilty of this to various degrees, but this back-and-forth of isolated hypotheticals doesn't prove anything.

 

He's bound to make a splash in the short term. After that, who can say? We're getting regular codex releases and 9th is very young. The meta will adjust.

 

Long story short, Mortarion appears very powerful but not broken + it is far too early to claim that his new ruleset is "defining" anything beyond what happens every time a reasonably strong book comes out. Let's not throw out claims of "this unit is busted" just yet.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Morty's busted. Full stop. If a model single-handedly defines a meta, it's OP.

 

Consensus among pros thus far, almost unanimously, is that he isn't busted.

 

Besides, this kind of kneejerk reaction doesn't have any basis in fact. The book was released less than a week ago and we haven't seen a single major tournament featuring the new Morty/DG. We're also at a very early stage of 9th's orbit; I don't think anybody would disagree that 9th's new books are a very different beast to 8th's. Even if defining a meta was the standard by which something can be labelled overpowered - and it shouldn't be, because it isn't - it is far too early to say that Mortarion is defining the meta. At the moment all we have to go by is the furious typing of a horde of 40k fans intent on rendering their verdicts on the latest book's hottest property with experiences drawn from at absolute best a relative handful of games that have, once again, taken place a mere handful of days after the book's actual release. We're all guilty of this to various degrees, but this back-and-forth of isolated hypotheticals doesn't prove anything.

 

He's bound to make a splash in the short term. After that, who can say? We're getting regular codex releases and 9th is very young. The meta will adjust.

 

Long story short, Mortarion appears very powerful but not broken + it is far too early to claim that his new ruleset is "defining" anything beyond what happens every time a reasonably strong book comes out. Let's not throw out claims of "this unit is busted" just yet.

 

 

I actually want you to be right. I hope you're right!

[Iron Sage]

@9x19 Parabellum

Liked your posts because they were interesting and because you had some decent arguments. I don't agree with you, since I got to confess that I trust the various play testers more, and because I think you are underplaying the fact that Mortarion is a melee threat only (yes, Lantern, but). But never the less, I truly appreciate you writing that there is a possibility that you are wrong. Not every critic is able to admit that they may be incorrect, and I respect humility far more than arrogance.

 

My suggestion is: Let us wait 1-2 months. Let more very good gamers play with him and play against him. So far, it seems most of the pros like Marshall Loss says, are of the opinion that he is nicely balanced for 490 points. But in 2 months or so, we will know more definitely.

[Cleon]

 

Regarding deployment/spacing: I agree with you 100%. All I'm asking you to acknowledge is that in doing so, he's already affecting and defining the game.  Nothing up on the line for fear of Morty turn 1 charge?  Great, that means all those guns aren't in range, and you're not claiming midfield objectives. 

 

 

Can I just throw in a point on this - if how 1/4 of your opponents force acts doesn't change how you deploy and play, then we're not playing a game against each other, we're implementing your plan against my plan. I hate the idea that's been around the last few editions that you write a list and play it one way regardless, if a TAC list implements the same plan against Guard and against Tyranids (for example) the game is all the worse for it. I have absolutely no problem that a player may have to deploy and play differently if the other player brings a daemon primarch compared to if they bring all infantry.

[McElMcNinja]

More games, more story’s. Played Necrons again and did much better. Morty did eventually go down in turn 5, but I played him differently. I was more reserved with him and just used his presence as a threat. The Necrons didn’t come out and play so I took my time getting him into position. Morty fell to the SK and a Nightbringer, but he effectively allowed me to score my points and win.

Side note, Morty couldn’t bring down a unit of 20 warriors while a unit of 10 Possessed could. They erased 3 units and didn’t lose a model. The others being 5 immortals and a cryptek. The only buff they got was a +1 to hit vs the warriors.

[Balerion84]

The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

 

I don't know about you guys, but we always inform each other when we want to bring a LoW unit to the game in advance. Even a Baneblade

Think it's a nice thing to do for friendly games.

[Azekai]

 

The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

I don't know about you guys, but we always inform each other when we want to bring a LoW unit to the game in advance. Even a Baneblade

Think it's a nice thing to do for friendly games.

 

This, absolutely. Being able to discuss with an opponent what you are bringing stops it from being a rock/paper/scissors gotcha game.

 

I do think Mortarion (and most Lord of War units) are poorly implemented in that bringing one tends to totally alter the nature of the game, but, hey, we are stuck with them, so c'est la vie.

[jgascoine011]

 

 

The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

I don't know about you guys, but we always inform each other when we want to bring a LoW unit to the game in advance. Even a Baneblade

Think it's a nice thing to do for friendly games.

 

This, absolutely. Being able to discuss with an opponent what you are bringing stops it from being a rock/paper/scissors gotcha game.

 

I do think Mortarion (and most Lord of War units) are poorly implemented in that bringing one tends to totally alter the nature of the game, but, hey, we are stuck with them, so c'est la vie.

 

 

Yea fully agree.

When people are saying he is balanced, well he is as balanced in as much as a LoW can be balanced in a 2k game.

Personally, i dont mind playing the odd game against a LoW, but it gets boring really quickly. I would also like to see a rule where if you bring a LoW to a game, and your opponent doesn't, then your opponent gets to decide who goes 1st.

 

But yea, if you are bringing a LoW, then you should always tell your opponent. One of my most memorable games in 8th was arranging to play a game with an IG player, driving over an hour to the club, setting up the table, terrain etc, and he turns up with a baneblade and stormsword, and being wipped off the table in 2 turns, then packing everything up and driving the hour back home....yea that was real fun.

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

 

The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

I don't know about you guys, but we always inform each other when we want to bring a LoW unit to the game in advance. Even a Baneblade

Think it's a nice thing to do for friendly games.

 

This, absolutely. Being able to discuss with an opponent what you are bringing stops it from being a rock/paper/scissors gotcha game.

 

I do think Mortarion (and most Lord of War units) are poorly implemented in that bringing one tends to totally alter the nature of the game, but, hey, we are stuck with them, so c'est la vie.

 

 

Yea fully agree.

When people are saying he is balanced, well he is as balanced in as much as a LoW can be balanced in a 2k game.

Personally, i dont mind playing the odd game against a LoW, but it gets boring really quickly. I would also like to see a rule where if you bring a LoW to a game, and your opponent doesn't, then your opponent gets to decide who goes 1st.

 

But yea, if you are bringing a LoW, then you should always tell your opponent. One of my most memorable games in 8th was arranging to play a game with an IG player, driving over an hour to the club, setting up the table, terrain etc, and he turns up with a baneblade and stormsword, and being wipped off the table in 2 turns, then packing everything up and driving the hour back home....yea that was real fun.

 

Yeah, amen to both of you. That's how my local community plays.

 

I only brought morty in a 2k game last weekend AS we wanted to see if he was feasible in the list pondering what tournaments for DG would start being. Ultimately, both of us said "Nah, but in 2500 or more, he's good fun!", but we're probably wrong.

 

We have a shop/group rule of 'No LoW's unless it's a 2500+ or higher game.

 

Let's you have that much more firepower to deal with Knights and such, and to a lesser extent a lone baneblade or such. Also keeps away that lameness of 1/4th or more of an opponents army being a single model or such, detracting from the positioning and strategy element of the game that much more.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Guys, I appreciate all of the last 6 or 7 responses, but I have to ask this question in good faith:

 

-Doesn't the friendly social rule that you guys are suggesting sort of prove what I'm trying to say? That Mortarion (and possibly other Lords of War) are not balanced?

[McElMcNinja]

To me it’s not a matter of balance, as we all know 40K is not a balanced game.

Sometimes a player doesn’t have the skills and/or resources to compete with certain units or even armies. In a friendly game, I would like everyone to enjoy it.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

Nah dude, you're not factoring in the fact that 95% of his use is in melee, which should be easy to avoid turn one with deployment alone (I would avoid my putting my vehicles anywhere near a turn one charge from morty). If you're ramming your repulsors into Mortarion, that's on you. He can't really hide and will pretty much never be in cover. No longer can have body guards. Lost dttfe. He's not defining any meta's yet. Codex has only been out for the general public for what, less than a week? He's not busted. He's just strong. I saw you posting in the marine forum complaining about him, so I assumed that's your main army since I never see you post here. If you have a TAC list that can deal with a melee knight, you can deal with Morty...

Look, Putrid, I may very well be wrong. My point in this thread is that the OP's "test" (McElMcNinja) doesn't prove anything to me. First off the premise is wrong: The claim is not that he's literally UNKILLABLE. It's that he absorbs too much for his points. So right off he's doing a bit of straw-manning (albeit, I think, not intentionally). Secondly, he sets up 2 games, neither of which really tests the hypothesis. Even if they did test the hypothesis correctly....it's 2 games.

Regarding deployment/spacing: I agree with you 100%. All I'm asking you to acknowledge is that in doing so, he's already affecting and defining the game. Nothing up on the line for fear of Morty turn 1 charge? Great, that means all those guns aren't in range, and you're not claiming midfield objectives.

 

Regarding me: Yes, I'm primarily SM player. But I also play Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Imp Knights, Sisters and 4x Space Marine Chapters. DG are my most recent army, started picking them up about 4 months ago. Only played 1 game with them. I actually think one needs to play multiple armies in order to have a real cross-section perspective of each faction and how to play/beat it.

 

one last point I want to address:

If you have a TAC list that can deal with a melee knight, you can deal with Morty...

This is part of what I mean about confirmation bias or army myopia. This is objectively not true. Morty is objectively, statistically, 2-3x more durable than a knight against shooting, and several times more durable than a knight in close combat.

All he is doing is giving his first hand experience on how Morty is doing. No one is saying his first two games are defining what Morty can and can't do. How many games are you expecting people to have in with the codex coming out less than a week ago? And all some of us are saying is, we have seen other people's reports on him, and we don't think he is as broken as some people (like you) think. Like Iron Sage, I trust all those sources and play testers way more than a marine player complaining on the internet.

 

You straw man alot yourself. Just because you're not lining up vehicles for midfield objectives doesn't mean you're throwing your game away because of Morty. That's what Troops and elites are for. I generally don't run my shooty Daemon engines into midfield objectives, that's what rhino's filled with melee troops, terminators and melee Daemon engines are for. Deployment has always been a thing that affects the game. It's not about lining nothing up for a turn one charge. Again he can barely kill a small marine squad, which is what you probably should be trying to get on midfield objectives (obsec) since those are the ones that easily get contested.

 

You can only take one Mortarion in a list. It's not like you can spam him. I do agree with most of the fraters comments about communicating with opponents about bringing him is a good idea, but that's all about your group and your Meta. Our group has a no Forge world policy. But I wouldn't enforce that on other random people or people on the internet. A TAC tournament list should be able to handle a LoW. Plus there are only three new codexes out right now for 9th. It's just the current flavor of the month. If history repeats itself (as it often does in 40k), the future codexes will be even more broken (inner circle = transhuman?).

 

A majority of players collect multiple armies. I have older marines and orks (from 3rd edition), chaos space marines, tau, tyranids and in 8th started death guard (my favorite).

 

So agree to disagree I guess, because you are not convincing me of anything, much like I am not convincing you of anything.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Putrid Choir

[Bulwyf]

 

The fact that you even felt compelled to tell someone you were bringing Morty, who also felt it was required to bring a direct counter to him, is proof of the fact that he's not balanced.

I don't know about you guys, but we always inform each other when we want to bring a LoW unit to the game in advance. Even a Baneblade

Think it's a nice thing to do for friendly games.

 

 

We always discuss our friendly games in advance. Like not once that I can recall that we just show up with random army and random lists. Usually one of us has something they want to try out or just play for fun and the other guy says cool mind if I try "X"?  

 

I think if more games had this friendly talk and set up before a match so much of this OP talk would simply never take place.