Alpharius

[animal310]

In reply to Captain Idaho

As for you first two points I completely disagree, see The Observers excellent rebuttal.

It does not make Alpharius ‘special’. The Emperor had roles for all the Primarchs, espionage, special opps, infiltration, misdirection were his.

As explained previously his gift allows him to alter his perception enabling him to hide in plain sight.

The novel does not cover events that happen during the actual Heresy. He does ruminate about self-sacrifice and that certain circumstances may justify a Primarch sacrificing themselves. Personally I did not like Praetorian of Dorn, especially the ending.

As for being omnipotent and not failing, again this is wrong, in fact he even ruminates on this after one of his plans goes wrong and has unintended consequences.

I’ve yet to see a negative review or remark from someone who has actually read the book (although I’ve not doubt there will be), I’d recommend reserving judgment until you have read it and see what you think.

Edited January 27, 2021 by animal310

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m having a hard time tracking the name change thing. For the purpose of keeping it straight I’m going to call them A and B. A is Terrapharius, B is Spacepharius. It sounds from this thread like A and B switched places when B was found, so when we see any mention of Alpharius in Legion it’s actually B (Spacepharius). So in Praetorian of Dorn when Dorn kills ‘Alpharius’ he actually killed B, and the Alpharius of Eskrador and 40K is actually A but was referred to as Omegon in Legion.

I hope it’s easier to keep track of in the book

[Lucerne]

And to top it all off there's always the "in-universe lies" approach to lore you don't like in this novel.

[aa.logan]

I was really hoping to have read this on Saturday, but delayed delivery kept me from the book.

 

As ever, it’s interesting to note that the comments here from folk who have read the book are positive, whilst the negative ones seem to be those responding to the bare bones spoilers- it’s a book that people should absolutely give a chance to.

 

It’s a really good book. The use of Alpharius as first-person narrator works really well- it seems such a natural fir for learning about the character. The scope of the book is more ambitious than others in the series- we get rich snapshots of several parts of the nascent Imperium, and the methods of the Alpha Legion are showcased in suitable fashion. Brooks handles the action scenes well, and Alpharius is charismatic enough while not fully human. By showing us each of his brothers through Alpharius’ eyes, Brooks gives us one of the most convincing sketches of why the Primarchs were created. None of the big ‘reveals’ seem egregious to me, and I savoured the nuggets of lore and tie-ins with other stories.

 

It’s not flawless- an extra 50 pages would really help the pacing of the story; the end portion seems a little rushed, but I’m glad the opening scenes weren’t trimmed. Alpharius is a smug so-and-so, as I guess anyone born with his gifts would be, and that does get a little waring at times, but it’s *his* book and it would feel wrong for him to get his comeuppance in it’s pages. In the same way that I find myself siding with the effectiveness of the Night Lords’ methods from a humanitarian perspective, the Alpha Legion don’t really fit into 40k- I don’t see why all chapters and legions don’t adopt their tactics more often if not all the time- covert headstrikes just seem more a more effective use of Astartes than meatgrinding them en masse, but once I’m over that hurdle, I’m grand.

 

I loved the idea of Alpharius being both the first and the last Primarch discovered, adored his proto-Blood Games and the way the book built upon Wraight’s Valdor. I didn’t want Unification Wars books, but my stance on this is softening so damn fast...

[Lucerne]

I was really hoping to have read this on Saturday, but delayed delivery kept me from the book.

 

As ever, it’s interesting to note that the comments here from folk who have read the book are positive, whilst the negative ones seem to be those responding to the bare bones spoilers- it’s a book that people should absolutely give a chance to.

 

It’s a really good book. The use of Alpharius as first-person narrator works really well- it seems such a natural fir for learning about the character. The scope of the book is more ambitious than others in the series- we get rich snapshots of several parts of the nascent Imperium, and the methods of the Alpha Legion are showcased in suitable fashion. Brooks handles the action scenes well, and Alpharius is charismatic enough while not fully human. By showing us each of his brothers through Alpharius’ eyes, Brooks gives us one of the most convincing sketches of why the Primarchs were created. None of the big ‘reveals’ seem egregious to me, and I savoured the nuggets of lore and tie-ins with other stories.

 

It’s not flawless- an extra 50 pages would really help the pacing of the story; the end portion seems a little rushed, but I’m glad the opening scenes weren’t trimmed. Alpharius is a smug so-and-so, as I guess anyone born with his gifts would be, and that does get a little waring at times, but it’s *his* book and it would feel wrong for him to get his comeuppance in it’s pages. In the same way that I find myself siding with the effectiveness of the Night Lords’ methods from a humanitarian perspective, the Alpha Legion don’t really fit into 40k- I don’t see why all chapters and legions don’t adopt their tactics more often if not all the time- covert headstrikes just seem more a more effective use of Astartes than meatgrinding them en masse, but once I’m over that hurdle, I’m grand.

 

I loved the idea of Alpharius being both the first and the last Primarch discovered, adored his proto-Blood Games and the way the book built upon Wraight’s Valdor. I didn’t want Unification Wars books, but my stance on this is softening so damn fast...

Hubris, the AL tactics being a timesink, Legions being the battering ram in this era that generally can butcher opposition without needing to waste time and effort on the set up...

 

Ironically enough the AL tactics are perfect for post-heresy...after the Imperium has been completely traumatized into being suspicious of anything that resembles their tactics.

[aa.logan]

Oh, I agree with all of the above- all of 30/40k is totally absurd so suspension of disbelief is essential, but anything that reminds me that there might be a better solution than a headlong charge wielding a chainsword sometimes throws me...

[DarkChaplain]

DarkChaplain I couldn’t agree more!

 

BCC

 

Cool. I don't particularly agree with your other points, but at least that's something.

 

 

 

 

My only issue with the reveal is

In Wolfsbane, we see the Emperor almost giddy about Horus "no longer being the only one". We see the seeds of envy within Horus, and those are his, but it kind of diminishes the Emperor's "I thought I'd lost you all, and then I found you, Horus, and now I know there's more because Russ is your brother" part. I thought that was a very strong scene, and one in which we can almost see the Emperor's dreams becoming possible again. To now have Alpharius being around for potentially decades before Russ was found, that cheapens this moment between the two.

I see your point but....

 

It would not be the first time the Emperor lied. At the very least, Master of Mankind shows that people tend to see what they want to see in the Emperor. Horus wanted a loving father and his ego made him want to be first. So that is what the Emperor gave him.

[Enter THIS! Gif]

Everyone is hearing what he wants/ expects the Emperor to say. Neither they as actual counterparts in a discussion with the Emperor nor we as readers know what's the truth. Even the authors don't know it and that's why they leave it open and vague.

 

In that terms, Alpharius might even be the closest to the Emperor or he learned the most of him. Who knows?

 

It even adds to that scene as it further emphasize

The tragedy of a self deceived Horus by believing him to be the first and most important one to the Emperor while in fact

A) he wasn't the first, thusnot the special one he believed himself to be

Emperor lied to him from the very beginning (further enhancing his daddy issues)

C) his later rebellion is more grounded because of what the Emperor did to him

 

"That was a lie."

 

 

 

I could get used to that quote.

 

 

Honestly, that scene from Wolfsbane didn't really feel like the Emperor was just trying to cozy up to Horus in the first place. He even reprimanded him for his reactions to Russ and the future-Wolves. It seemed much more genuine in tone than other scenes in the series - especially those from MoM.

 

I mean, it's also strange that the Emperor would present Russ as a sort of joyful present to Horus, calling Russ the first to be found, somebody he'll assign a Legion to, and what not, and holds Russ up as a force multiplier to Horus when he's had a Primarch sitting ready for possibly decades.

 

While it makes sense to initially keep Alpharius secret, while believing he's the only one who may be left to him, the urgency of secrecy diminished the moment he recruited Horus and made him public. By the time Russ was found, Alpharius could have easily been taken into the circle and put in command of his entire Legion to speed up the Crusade. The benefits of having a contingency Primarch would have been much smaller than having a third Legion on the galactic battleground. To then instead hold him back until last is such a strange decision - and the only reason I can think of for this, meta-narratively, is that Omegon is a thing and they had to accomodate that one being found separately somehow.

 

Besides, I'm not a fan of the super-wildcard that the Emperor has become since Master of Mankind. Yes, he's been changeable and would adjust his appearance, attitude and what not according to the task in front of him. But I've always taken this as a deliberate move on his part, like coming in the guise of Revelation, rather than the warlord of unity, rather than everybody around him seeing him as what they want to see him as, subconsciously.

 

I believe that the Emperor can put on a persona as he sees fit, but I don't like the interpretation that he's just sort of a mirror for others' expectations - which becomes especially silly when there are multiple observers in a scene. That whole house of cards just falls apart the moment the other characters start to chat about "woah, the Emperor is hot" "wait, what? he's an old man with a long beard" "no, he is as pretty as Sigvald, battle-brother".

At the same time, I believe that his words should be set in stone - even if the intent and tone of them might not necessarily be.

 

I don't know, for years the Emperor was a touchy subject to write, and for good reason. But since MoM, I feel like he's gotten too easy to write, because there's always this potential cop-out of "well, that's just how he wanted to appear in that scene" or "that was just Paul Beta's impression of the Emperor, don't take it at face value" now. The guy was better defined as a character when he would just go LARP to have a discussion about religion, instead of being the real Changeling of the setting, without all the Tzeentch tentacles.

Edited January 27, 2021 by DarkChaplain

[Lucerne]

Oh, I agree with all of the above- all of 30/40k is totally absurd so suspension of disbelief is essential, but anything that reminds me that there might be a better solution than a headlong charge wielding a chainsword sometimes throws me...

30k can afford to be sloppy, wasteful and inefficient, hence some of the absurditites. Plus if you need to send a message and kill anyone that might raise a weapon against your empire, blood crazed butchers do that just as well as the more efficient and time consuming tactics...

[DukeLeto69]

So I have not bought or read a single Primarchs novel. They just do not interest me and the series has clearly been a mixed bag.

 

However, I do really like Mike Brooks writing so am wondering when Alpharius comes out in Std HB whether to get it?

 

Confess to losing track of all the lore stuff from time-to-time so having read the spoilers I am not sure those reveals would bother me either way.

[aa.logan]

So I have not bought or read a single Primarchs novel. They just do not interest me and the series has clearly been a mixed bag.

However, I do really like Mike Brooks writing so am wondering when Alpharius comes out in Std HB whether to get it?

Confess to losing track of all the lore stuff from time-to-time so having read the spoilers I am not sure those reveals would bother me either way.

Yes, do get it.

 

Some of the books in the series feel less ‘essential’ than others; the Khan one, for example, is great, but we have seen plenty of him elsewhere. Ferrus Manus has it’s fans, but I didn’t feel all I learnt much about him or what made his Legion tick coming away from reading it. Alpharius hits the sweet spot- relatively little explored Primarch coupled with a great story that couldn’t be about anyone else.

[DarkChaplain]

And while you're at it, get Curze and Perturabo as well. Even Corax. All of those add a lot to their respective characters that elevates them.

 

I'll second that the Khan one isn't particularly essential, it's just more of the same from Wraight, without really doing anything notable of its own. It's an easy skip. But stuff like Corax puts a bit of a spin on the Primarch that hasn't really been explored in the mainline series, or Perturabo's where various depictions run together well under a bigger umbrella. And Curze is a fantastic character study, rather than an action book that the weakest of the series basically are.

 

The Primarchs series is at its best when it doesn't simply provide more of what we know, or underlines and explores the core of the characters' personalities and complexes in a new context. It seems like Alpharius does just that.

[Tabris]

Sounds juicy if true.

[Karhedron]

Curze was brilliant and probably the best I have read so far. I do need to read more though.

[aa.logan]

I’ve loved something about all the Primarchs books, but would say that Alpharius, Angron, Corax, Perterabo and Curze are the definite highlights and give essential insight; it’s interesting that these characters feature heavily in multiple books and shorts in the mainline series, but have been given to different writers here- is this what breathes fresh life into them? Edited January 27, 2021 by aa.logan

[DarkChaplain]

It is, if that different writer is Haley :')

[aa.logan]

Yeah, hadn’t noticed than commonality...

[Fedor]

Anyone that has finished the book have any thoughts on this theory that is on reddit...

 

That the book proves/heavily suggests that Alpharius and Omegon actually switched identities the entire time from the two meeting, right through to the end of the heresy Or is the switch in it just said to be for the fleet attack reveal against Horus?

Edited January 27, 2021 by Fedor

[mc warhammer]

i like the idea of exploring the nascent days of the crusade and seeing the primarch fraternity through the protagonist's eyes

 

on DC's point

 

you're right, once horus and russ are found, the initial reason to keep alpharius out of the public eye is gone.

 

what i'm assuming is that reason changed once the emperor and/or malcador discovered it was useful to have alpharius there. happens at work all the time; you create a temporary measure only to realise that it works so well you make it permanent.

 

it could be possible that they wanted alpharius infiltrating each legion, only releasing him from duty once all 20 were located. you could play with the idea further, with alpharius reporting back suspicion on the lost legions that cause the emps to keep a closer eye on them (how that squares with alpharius' outrage over the treatment of one of those brothers might be its own story).

 

you could expose alpharius to the imperium earlier and still have him spy on his brothers, but it's probably easier to dupe 19 demigods when they're totally unaware of a spy brother

 

all this goes a long way to explaining alpharius' attitude. he has basically felt like he's been one step ahead of his brothers from day one.

 

at least until PoD

[Captain Idaho]

I'll get the book one way or another and give my verdict, but I don't like a fundamental change.

 

Here's a question... if it's first person narrative, who is Alpharius talking to? The whole thing could be misinformation.

[Kelborn]

Don't forget that the XXth Legion was tasked with a Ghost Crusade happening separate from the Great Crusade as mentioned in Exterminatus.

 

Would still make sense to keep their and Alpharius' a secret, imho.

Bit of a stretch, I know.

[b1soul]

Any reason given for why

 

the DA were hard to infiltrate? Was it the secret handshakes?

Edited January 28, 2021 by b1soul

[Darkwrath121]

Any reason given for why

 

[spoilers]the DA were hard to infiltrate? Was it the secret handshakes?

Presumably down to the impractically impenetrable layers of secrecy in the legion. The Hexagrammaton, Hekatonystika etc.

 

 

Difficult to infiltrate a legion composed of secret societies and multiple distinct command structures.

[animal310]

Anyone that has finished the book have any thoughts on this theory that is on reddit...

 

That the book proves/heavily suggests that Alpharius and Omegon actually switched identities the entire time from the two meeting, right through to the end of the heresy Or is the switch in it just said to be for the fleet attack reveal against Horus?

 

No, not sure where anyone is getting that, they agree that Omegon should be the one to be 'found' by Horus to ensure a more genuine reaction to him as Alpharius had set eyes on him before. Alpharius does remark that he "would love to see it", so he was probably there as well as a Luna Wolf!

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by animal310

[Karhedron]

Anyone that has finished the book have any thoughts on this theory that is on reddit...

 

That the book proves/heavily suggests that Alpharius and Omegon actually switched identities the entire time from the two meeting, right through to the end of the heresy Or is the switch in it just said to be for the fleet attack reveal against Horus?

Not specifically but it does vaguely pertain to

 

Old assumptions made on the original fluff. Everyone seemed to be of the opinion that it was Alpharius who was lost while Omegon remained on Terra. From that point of view, our expectations have been switched, even if their identities have not.

[animal310]

 

Any reason given for why

 

[spoilers]the DA were hard to infiltrate? Was it the secret handshakes?

Presumably down to the impractically impenetrable layers of secrecy in the legion. The Hexagrammaton, Hekatonystika etc.

 

 

Difficult to infiltrate a legion composed of secret societies and multiple distinct command structures.

 

 

He comments that The Lion's instincts were sharper and he believed that The Lion had sensed that something was not right, but in the end he (Jonson) gave no indication if he had worked it out or not.