Deathwatch, where to restart - Vets'n' Dreads

[infyrana]

It's been some time since I put all my Deathwatch bits away (tidy desk, other hobbies) waiting for the latest rules and codex etc, but after playing a bit of DoW2+3 recently out of boredom, I got that renewed intrigue.  However, I left my bits prepped but unbuilt and I am completely out of the loop with options and well rounded setups, so I've been wondering where to re-begin building my little Deathwatch force ready for some paint!

 

Where does one re-start with mostly 35x Veterans, some Dreads, a Corvus and a little ETB Primaris stuff - please help set me on a path!

[Mobius0288]

A Battalion is a good start. Storm shields are a winner in any unit you make. Vets are now 2 wounds a piece so its not so much a competition between taking Vets vs Primaris. Now you can build around what you prefer and still be viable. You can now build kill teams with specialisms which gives a proteus kill team a better chance at wounding stuff.

 

An easy start is 2 HQs, 2 Ven dreads (Lascannons), a blackstar and Vet units to your heart's content. Just balance out your anti-tank vs your anti-infantry to what you need.

[techsoldaten]

It's been some time since I put all my Deathwatch bits away (tidy desk, other hobbies) waiting for the latest rules and codex etc, but after playing a bit of DoW2+3 recently out of boredom, I got that renewed intrigue.  However, I left my bits prepped but unbuilt and I am completely out of the loop with options and well rounded setups, so I've been wondering where to re-begin building my little Deathwatch force ready for some paint!

 

Where does one re-start with mostly 35x Veterans, some Dreads, a Corvus and a little ETB Primaris stuff - please help set me on a path!

 

I started in a similar place, am just a little further down the path. Let me share what I've learned, point out the spots where I'm wrong, and let's move forward together.

 

First off: Vet Squads are now Proteus Kill Teams. There are other kinds of Kill Teams, helps to keep them separate.

 

Terminators, Bikers and Vanguard don't do what they used to. Important to know the reasons for taking them:

 

- A Terminator model in your squad gives all models a 5+ invul.

 

- A Vanguard Vet in the squad allows them to throw melta bombs.

 

- A Biker in the squad... does something that is not turbo boost.

 

Combat squads for Proteus Kill Teams seem to be very important. You might want 5 Vets kitted out with Heavy Weapons and 5 Bikers who split off into objective grabbers. The combination of models in units allows for a great deal of flexibility.

 

Second: the go-to load out for a Vet seems to be SIA Bolter and Storm Shield. From there, just decide if you want to go close combat or heavy weapons. Frag Cannons and Infernus Heavy Bolters both have their place. Heavy Thunder Hammers have their place, but dual Lightning Claws appear to be a little lackluster.

 

Other people explained it better in this thread:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/368495-bikers-vanguard-vets-on-proteus-kill-teams/

 

I'm pretty clear on what the other Kill Teams can do, it's not very different from standard SM units. The question I keep asking is what can I pull off with Vets that I can't do with Tacs and Intercessors?

 

Quite a lot, actually. 

[Debauchery101]

3 must takes for most lists

Chief Apothecary w/selfless healer

10 stalker intercessors- perfect assassination squad due to insane chain combo of doctrines, stratagems and chaplain buffs. You can kill pretty much anything in 1 round. It may cost a lot of CP but I will gladly spend 4-5 cp to kill something 1st turn that's 350+ points. Most expensive units are going to get their points back in 1 to 2 turns and die. If you rob them of that then you really blunt your opponents lethality

 

Beacon Angelus

 

My 5 favorite units

10 vanguard vets-

Sgt w/hvyhammer, 1 hvyhammer, 4x shieldxchainsword, 2 dual claws, 2 claw+inferno pistol.

Very good value. Can easily split to throw into proteus teams for combat squad obsec jump infantry

 

Indomitor kill team

4 hvy intercessors w/assault bolters, 1 hvy bolter, 1 plasma-ceptor, 3 Eradicators, 1 multimelta Eradicator

Support this team correctly and watch the salt flow

 

Chief Apothecary followed by 4 Company Vets with shields. Dont do the command squad

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with Dual plasma cannons and Cyclone...some people don't like the cp cost but this guy dishes out the punishment with excellent range. 2 blast plasma weapons vs 10 marines of any type is pretty nasty. You could very easily use it with a melee weapon. I just find everyone avoids dreads unless they can shoot them and charge for a for sure kill on a charge...so I just make them shooty

 

Proteus team

Sgt-xenoblade and shield

Blackshield-dual claws

VanVet hvy hammer

3 vets w/bolter and shield

4 frag cannons

Deep strike this unit and let rip. They melt stuff easily. They punch well and can tank a decent amount of punishment

Edited January 29, 2021 by Debauchery101

[infyrana]

Thank you all for your replies!  I hit up 1d4chan for some basic info following comments above (though I don't take every word for fact on there), lots to learn (wow, need a lever arch folder for the amount of 'buff' 'things' you can tac on!).  Battalion with a Corvus and 2x dreads sounds perfect, just a case of what weapons to put on what - DW give so many options it's like a minefield in a minefield

 

@Debauchery101 is that Apothecary a Primaris model, or can it be a normal SM ?  Primaris is still a no go for me (well that's changed a bit, but for this thread it remains lol), I have a batch of ETB's inc. 10 interessors, 4 hellblasters, Aggressors (6x flame and 3x boltstorm), 2x Redemptors, but no heavy intercessors or anything else.  Do you recommend any normal SM Vet Proteus KT variations to replicate?  I can add Terminators and Vanguards plus most weapon options np.

 

Edit: subtle change to my comment on primaris etc.

Edited February 18, 2021 by infyrana

[Debauchery101]

Thank you all for your replies! I hit up 1d4chan for some basic info following comments above (though I don't take every word for fact on there), lots to learn (wow, need a lever arch folder for the amount of 'buff' 'things' you can tac on!). Battalion with a Corvus and 2x dreads sounds perfect, just a case of what weapons to put on what - DW give so many options it's like a minefield in a minefield :D

 

@Debauchery101 is that Apothecary a Primaris model, or can it be a normal SM ? Primaris is still a no go for me, I have a batch of ETB's inc. 5 interessors, 5 hellblasters, Aggressors (6x flame and 3x boltstorm), 2x Redemptors, but no heavy intercessors or anything else. Do you recommend any normal SM Vet Proteus KT variations to replicate? I can add Terminators and Vanguards plus most weapon options np.

Chief Apothecary applies to either. If he's not hopping in a drop pod primaris is a little better

 

Pretty much I only add terms, biker or vanvets to combat squad them so they get their normal rules.

 

I sometimes add in a vanvet to a proteus I will be deep striking because it allows access to melta bombs strat and extra hvy hammer if I want

 

I'd suggest getting to 10 stalker-intercessors.

It's an amazing unit for DW. Its also very cheap in points

DW firstborn vets and characters can use points to be as good or better than primaris.

Primaris units often make better use of cp via strats than firstborn vets.

 

For backfield camp units vets work well using 3 or 4 hvy bolters and dudes with shields.

 

I already listed my must takes and my favorite units. Its very hard to suggest stuff when I dont know how you want to play and what you want to field.

 

I will suggest for DW and all marines. I dunno if you dont want to use primaris or what but its very limiting because the best strats are primaris strats or ones that can be used on them because 9/10 they get more benefit from it than OG marines using it

[xenomortis]

3 must takes for most lists

Chief Apothecary w/selfless healer

10 stalker intercessors- perfect assassination squad due to insane chain combo of doctrines, stratagems and chaplain buffs. You can kill pretty much anything in 1 round. It may cost a lot of CP but I will gladly spend 4-5 cp to kill something 1st turn that's 350+ points. Most expensive units are going to get their points back in 1 to 2 turns and die. If you rob them of that then you really blunt your opponents lethality

 

Beacon Angelus

 

My 5 favorite units

10 vanguard vets-

Sgt w/hvyhammer, 1 hvyhammer, 4x shieldxchainsword, 2 dual claws, 2 claw+inferno pistol.

Very good value. Can easily split to throw into proteus teams for combat squad obsec jump infantry

 

Indomitor kill team

4 hvy intercessors w/assault bolters, 1 hvy bolter, 1 plasma-ceptor, 3 Eradicators, 1 multimelta Eradicator

Support this team correctly and watch the salt flow

 

Chief Apothecary followed by 4 Company Vets with shields. Dont do the command squad

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with Dual plasma cannons and Cyclone...some people don't like the cp cost but this guy dishes out the punishment with excellent range. 2 blast plasma weapons vs 10 marines of any type is pretty nasty. You could very easily use it with a melee weapon. I just find everyone avoids dreads unless they can shoot them and charge for a for sure kill on a charge...so I just make them shooty

 

Proteus team

Sgt-xenoblade and shield

Blackshield-dual claws

VanVet hvy hammer

3 vets w/bolter and shield

4 frag cannons

Deep strike this unit and let rip. They melt stuff easily. They punch well and can tank a decent amount of punishment

 

Out of interest, what's the perfect chain on the stalker intercessors squad?

[Debauchery101]

Choose Devastator Doctrine

 

Put catechism of fire and recitation of focus on squad..with a MOS you could spend 1 cp to make sure it lands. The +1 wound is most important

 

Vs a squad target-swapping chapter tactics to Imperial/Crimson fists ias great

Vs Tough solo model targets- keep your wound rerolls via DW chapter tactics, swap tactic focus if needed.

 

Use Strat for SIA

 

If it doesn't die then use Rapid Fire

 

For fights against some factions like harlequins and death guard having a character nearby with No Where to hide warlord trait can cancel all of your targets built in and proximity cover bonuses

 

Also having a Paragon Dark Angels Character is nice for getting more dev doctrines for these guys

 

As you can see it can be heavy cp burn but if you want to kill the hell outta something it will happen. Even just double tapping will make these guys put out a lot of punishment

 

Edit: this is most efficient for T7 and lower targets. Vs t8+ you'll be able to do some decent damage but I'd only consider it if I could follow up with another unit to finish them off wether it be ranged or hth.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Debauchery101