Grey Knight Chaplains... yay or nay?

[The Woodsman]

Since my early days in 40K dabbling in Daemonhunters, playing Blood Angels and playing against one of my local GW store's staff member's Black Templars (which pretty much always ran the Assault Termi + Chaplain + LRC combo back in 5th edition), Chaplains have been an iconic and awesome element of the Adeptus Astartes. A couple years later, when I read the Hellsreach novel in which Grimaldus certifies himself as a badass cemented this perception even further. I mean, furious battle-priests who smite the Emperor's foes with crackling battle-maces and holy fervor alike, all the while being the champions of their Chapter's souls...

 

Imagine my enthusiasm when I came back to 40K at the dawn of 8th edition to find that Grey Knights could now also field Chaplains. They had, however, taken a backseat role notably because Captains of all denominations across the Space Marine armies now provided a re-roll 1s aura, which sort of made the Chaplains, who granted a re-roll failed hits in melee aura, redundant.

 

With the arrival of Litanies in the second 8th ed. Marine codex (or was it Faith and Fury?), Chaplains found their usefulness - and flavor - return. With the publication of Ritual of the Damned, our own Grey Knight Chaplains got their own unique set of Litanies to chant on the battlefield and buff their battle-brothers. With the 8th ed. detachment rules, it wasn't uncommon to see a fair few HQ choices taken in a Grey Knights force, and the Chaplain seemed to be a staple. In the era of 9th edition, however, we're often limited to a single battalion and thus 3 HQ choices - choices must be made.

 

My question to you brothers, is three-fold: do you yourselves use Chaplains in your lists? What Litanies do you rate over others? And what units do you think can benefit the most from a Chaplain's support?

 

Also, feel free to share your Chaplain models, just for added color and coolness! 

 

 

[WAR]

I have a Chaplain built but I have yet to actually put him in a list and I really have not played since 6th edition but still build models. I think that Grey Knights are more dependant on Librarians, Bro Captain, and Grand Masters (both types) that he is really overshadowed.

Pewter Chaplain, Grey Knight arms and shoulder pads, Betrayl at Calth Chaplain Crozius

[Gnomeo]

I think his abilities are great however I roll like trash so I do not find 3+ to go off reliable enough. As a result I tend not to use him. (Ever since I had a game with him and didn't get a single litany off). I think if there was a way to make the litanies more reliable. He would be an auto include. But for me I prefer putting those points elsewhere.

[Archadeus]

My convergence list takes the chaplain everytime, getting that extra ap on a 10 man squad squad is absolutely massive and even if he doesn't get it off he's a psycher so he's still useful. Not saying he's an auto include but against marines extra range or ap can really come in clutch not to mention he's a GK character so naturally he's decent in combat. Also I've been thinking about taking the BS modifier litany so my paladins can hit ther psycannons on 2s with fury even after gate Edited January 28, 2021 by Archadeus

[The Woodsman]

I think the chaplain moving forward is important, he provides much needed buffs that realistically should of already been applied to weapon/unit profiles to begin with.

 

The GK list that is being brought to the LVNO is centered around the chaplains litanies. the No 6. litany is just too darn good to pass up, usable in both shooting and melee makes it much more flexible and efficient.

 

1 battalion isn't a given, as the list just mentioned takes two detachments to fit 4 HQ's - minimal troops at all cost and maximise on the unit that they feel is going to make the army work.

 

1 patrol and 1 vanguard detachment I think.

 

Looking at the chaplains litanies, there's two that I love, the 5+ FNP aura, seeing as our apothecary sucks, and the -1AP to melee weapons and any psi weapons. (or stormbolters with psybolt ammo).

 

I haven't got to use a chaplain yet, still fishing for a decent model, but his gameplay kinda changed from 8th to 9th. From his litany being applied at the top of the turn, to now in your command phase, its just another crutch that we have when going 2nd. Along with not being able to apply our defensive buffs, we cant chant the litany either.

 

What I don't like is the 3+ to channel it, and no reroll available for it. He also has no inherent upgrades like the SM has. Although I do hope we get the same options,

Master of sanctity? Is that it? 2+ to channel, or 2 litanies active at once. He also needs the normal GK weaponry too, why would he not?

 

The only thing they got right, which makes him decent is the fact he is a psyker. Still, now that I'm well into throwing down 2000pt games now, once I'm done experimenting with double librarians and Voldus, I may try Voldus, chaplain, librarian. 

 

You make a fair point about detachments... running two patrols could essentially allow you to run more of everything (I think - 4 for each, rather than 3?) / the same amount of troop choices (though as you've pointed out you're probably going to be trying to cut down on troops to save points), while only sacrificing 2CP. I think the FnP Litany you're referring to is Litany of Faith, which grants a 5+++ against mortal wounds... situationally useful, especially if you're running Paladins, but not a staple choice in my opinion.

 

My convergence list takes the chaplain everytime, getting that extra ap on a 10 man squad squad is absolutely massive and even if he doesn't get it off he's a psycher so he's still useful. Not saying he's an auto include but against marines extra range or ap can really come in clutch not to mention he's a GK character so naturally he's decent in combat. Also I've been thinking about taking the BS modifier litany so my paladins can hit ther psycannons on 2s with fury even after gate

 

Agreed that in a Convergence list he's pretty clutch, I for one have found the extra range to be superb whenever I run Purgators... it might not seem like much but 30" as opposed to 24" makes quite the difference. I also feel if running both Psilencers and Psycannons, it might be a better "investment" to put the +1 AP on the Psilencers and Pyschic Onslaught on Psycannons to really get the most out of both guns. I hadn't seen it myself, but the bonus AP on some Psybolt Storm Bolters could also be really strong. I was liking the BS modifier (Guidance) Litany in 8th ed., especially on Lascannons/anti-tank, but with hit mods now capping at -1, I'm unsure how much mileage you really get out of it compared to other Litanies. I've had success using it on a Purgator Squad that I then Gate behind enemy lines and into range of some juicy back-line support/big guns. 

 

I think his abilities are great however I roll like trash so I do not find 3+ to go off reliable enough. As a result I tend not to use him. (Ever since I had a game with him and didn't get a single litany off). I think if there was a way to make the litanies more reliable. He would be an auto include. But for me I prefer putting those points elsewhere.

 

Kind of in tune with a point Reskin made, that the 3+ / no-rolls / Command Phase mix doesn't allow for much reliability when it comes to getting your Litanies off when you need them. If we were to get the SM Stratagem (Commanding Oratory?) that makes a Litany go off at the beginning of any given phase... that would be pretty cool.  

 

***

 

If you could change/add any Litanies, how would you go about it?

Edited January 28, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[Archadeus]

The bonus ap on psybolters is incredibly strong vs marines, putting units like bladegaurd and van vets in their 4++ is really juicy. I'm not a big fan of the 5+++ since it's only for mortals. So I hope they change that and if our litany of hate was rerolling hits in combat plus 2 to charge or something it might actually be useful

[The Woodsman]

The bonus ap on psybolters is incredibly strong vs marines, putting units like bladegaurd and van vets in their 4++ is really juicy. I'm not a big fan of the 5+++ since it's only for mortals. So I hope they change that and if our litany of hate was rerolling hits in combat plus 2 to charge or something it might actually be useful

 

Agreed, a charge bonus Litany could be cool. I'd be happy with a 6+++ against all wounds, they really do add up and can potentially save a model or two at a key moment. This might clash with any changes brought to the Apothecary, if and when they happen, so we might see the FnP one go altogether.

[Cryminysakes]

How can you not if they look this cool??

[The Woodsman]

Ok I want it. Great work there man!

[Icosiel]

Chaplains, yay!

 

[The Woodsman]

Hot damn Icosiel, superb work. I really like the brazier, I've been considering doing something similar to make a Chaplain GMDK conversion. What kit is it from?

[Skywrath]

Just re-iterating, you know my stance on the chaplain, Woodsman. If you are taking purgations squads, you have to take him with the AP/Damage re-roll/Range litany and babysit them. Having those two elements in the list, automatically sets the theme for your list - entrenched gunline. So bring dreadnoughts, paladins, perhaps GMNDK's, and there you go.

 

I don't see any other uses for the chaplain other than buffing psycannons, to -3AP, but because we don't have access to the SM stuff (as we aren't space marines), you'd have to position him T2 just to come with the paladins at that spot. Which then presents a whole bunch of other issues such as not benefitting from Look out Sir rule, throwing away your intentions by putting him there, and potentially being dead in the water if the opponents puts two and two together and screens. 

 

Other than that explicit reason, it has to be a nay for me.

[The Woodsman]

Yeah the fact that he chants Litanies in the Command Phase and has no way of having it go off in any other phase kind of sticks him in a single role. That being said, re-rolling the damage on Nemesis weapons has worked well(ish) for me before. The extra AP on a Psybolt fusillade coming from Paladins/Terminators with Fury of the Proven on could work well too, however. You could start your bomb on the board out of LoS, buff them with the Chaplain, then Gate for effect where desired - they Rapid Fire at 24", so screening isn't quite the issue, you could easily shoot whatever is behind the screen, and charge said screen for extra movement. 

 

Anybody ever considered using two to stack different Litany buffs?

[Archadeus]

Yes actually. I've been thinking of trying a double chaplain list one babysitting pallys and purgs, and the other with the 10 man terms that volleys in the backfield and abuses edict with my librarian. One has extra range/ap and the other has ap/rerrolls for some punching redundancy and extra utility to make sure my heavy convergence squads are hitting as hard as possible. Thoughts are to have ap/rerrolls stick with pallys if possible for midboard control. What would you do?

[The Woodsman]

Probably something similar. One babysitting a Paladin bomb with the Mortal Wound 5+++/AP buff, one backfielding with Purgators and the Range/BS mods, he'd have Ethereal Manipulation as well. I really like the Guidance/Gate/Ethereal Manipulation combo on a Psycannon squad, whereas the extra AP combined with Fury of the Proven/Psybolt on Paladins with storm bolters. I don't feel Psychic Onslaught would be that necessary on the Psycannons with that kind of support, depending on your target of course, which can save some much needed CP.