So uh... how does DG deal damage?

[Azekai]

The faction as a whole seems to be lacking punch. I get we are supposed to be tough, but it feels like we lost some of our stronger options and in compensation we get.... well, not a lot. The old synergies are gone or weakened (I'm looking at you, arch-contaminator and veterans of the long war). In their place we have... more expensive strats that do less. Mortarion had everyone clutching their pearls, and while he is strong, he is not the reliable board-wiping menace that some feared he would be. Even things like Deathshroud (a dangerous unit) are mitigated by their lack of speed and the fact that they have no reliable way of getting into cc off the deepstrike.

Fleshmowers can kill infantry, but all those attacks are mounted on a relatively easily killed chassis. I don't think they are reliable. In the past, I have depended on my Daemon Princes to be the hammer to my plague marine anvil, with help from daemon engines like defilers and my decimator. This worked pretty well in early/mid 8th and was very dangerous in War of the Spider, with 4++ defilers with 5+++ FnP. I have never got good damage out of chaos lords or lords of contagion. Poxwalkers don't hurt anything, unless you spend cp on them and then they kill themselves to boot. Blight launchers are just 'ok' and plasma is meh. You can pick up some wounds here and there, but killing MEQ reliably was hard in the days before stuff like multi-wound marines, transhuman physiology and Inner Circle. 

My runner-up damage dealer in many games would end up being a pandemic staff sorc, for heaven's sake. 

Now that the hype is dying down and people are actually getting in games, what do the Death Guard do to kill their foes? I have watched some playtesters and youtubers and I just don't see the DG successfully doing anything interesting.

[jgascoine011]

Well for 1, 9th is more about survivability than killability...but killing stuff does help a lot with that survivability.

So the question, how to kill stuff

 

1) PBC with entropy cannons.

These are actually a legit threat now. Decent anti-tank and ok anti-infantry.

The problem with them is reliability so i would nearly always run 3.

They are also just annoying to shift, so if your opponent does want to kill them, he will need to devote a lot of firepower into them.

 

2) Daemon prince's are still rather terrifying.

With the re-roll hit and wound reliic, and the sword, and the +1D vs vehicles, its not far-fetched for him to 1 shot a knight.

The problem with him, is that you are kind of forced to play that plague company. The company is good so its ok, but personally i prefer the innoxerable.

 

3) Plague marines

They need character support though, and i would give them all 3 plasma guns, and 2 BL, and putting cloud of flies on them.

With a tallyman, with exploding 6s, its a lot of firepower, then if they do get into combat Ap-1 (or -2 if innoxerable) with a bunch of attacks, is pretty horrible.

With a biologus, there grenades are even more horrible, and they become just insane in combat.

 

4) Blight lords

Again, they need character support, more specifically, the foul blightspawn with relic.

They put out a decent amount of anti-light infantry (but why is the reaper auto-cannon not D2!!!!), and can be made to be decent vs tanks....if you can get an innoxerable character, with arch contaminator, inside contagion range.

But in combat, nothing beats them while inside the foul blightspawn aura. With armies like space marines, you want them to get charged. Not hatefull assault, no blood angles +1 to wound etc. You always fight 1st, regardless, you hit on 2's, and wound pretty much all infantry on 2's (re-rolling 1s)

While the difficulty of getting them into combat which a huge issue in 8th, its not such a massive problem in 9th. You want them sat on an objective.

 

5) Mower Drones

These are amazing. Look at outriders, which everyone says are great. You can be shot and charged at by a unit of 3, and will still win, even with transhuman...for less points.

 

Other points.

Yea pox walkers suck, they are supposed to suck. For 100 points you get an objective secured, T4, 20 wound unit, You put them on an objective and protect your flanks from deepstrike with them. And if they do charge a 5 man unit of intercessors, they can actually wipe the unit. If the intercessors charge them, they wont be wipped out, and will actually win over the course of the game.

And yea, once again there is not much point in bringing a LoC/LoV over a daemon prince, but they can find some uses in niche builds. Its a shame typhus is stuck with his crappy WLT otherwise i would actually use him

 

Plague Comanies

Outside of some really really niche builds there are generally only 2 that are good

Mortarions Anvil if you want to really buff up a character (like mortarion)

Innoxerable which IMO is the best one as it can buff up your whole army, but can be harder to use.

 

So yea, if DG were supper killy at long range they would be completley broken.

Your opponent now has to choose, does he shoot at your terminators on the objective and then be shot by your PBC or charged by drones etc, or does he go for the vehicles, and you are left scoring all the points

[Marshal Loss]

Great answer by jgascoine. Only things I'd add:

• Deathshroud are incredible and should be on any "damage dealers" list. I'm preferring them to Blightlords so far even with their limited reach.
• Poxwalkers aren't dedicated damage dealers, but I certainly wouldn't say they suck. Take them as a cheap scoring horde/backline unit and they'll occasionally impress beyond expectations with their ability to shower enemies in mortal wounds. Heavy Poxwalker builds may yet have legs.

[Tokugawa]

9th designing is about removing "too broken combos", and move some powerful mandatory abilities to "pay CP to use". DG lost some explosive tricks, in trade of better basic stats. Later codices may be also "less explosive".

[Tokugawa]

<p>

 

Great answer by jgascoine. Only things I'd add:

• Deathshroud are incredible and should be on any "damage dealers" list. I'm preferring them to Blightlords so far even with their limited reach.
• Poxwalkers aren't dedicated damage dealers, but I certainly wouldn't say they suck. Take them as a cheap scoring horde/backline unit and they'll occasionally impress beyond expectations with their ability to shower enemies in mortal wounds. Heavy Poxwalker builds may yet have legs.

Now poxwalkers is about"I could assume them do few to 0 damage. Opponent player,can't. If he carelessly placed a high value-per-wound unit near them, I will active the MW straregem to punish him."

[Plague _Lord]

While maybe not being kings of ranged firepower we can deal damage ok I think. The PBC mortars are actually decent now and we can allways take helbrutes or predators if you want to hurt something from a distance. We deal more damage the closer we get: Plague marines can dish out some hurt in the mid range, as a full squad will start losing special weapons after 10 wounds and with good rolls can wipe a 5 man intercessor squad in 1 round. Blightlords can deal out solid anti infantry damage as well.

 

When we get in combat we deal the most damage - Morty, Daemon princes and deathshroud will mince stuff, while drones, plague marines. possessed and spawn can easily hold their own against most non-elite close combat units.

[lansalt]

 Is the new Chaos Contemptor viable for a DG list?

 

Double twin-lascannons plus cyclone launcher means 6 x D6 potential damage. The other options look good, too.

 

Or it's too expensive?

[jgascoine011]

 Is the new Chaos Contemptor viable for a DG list?

 

Double twin-lascannons plus cyclone launcher means 6 x D6 potential damage. The other options look good, too.

 

Or it's too expensive?

 

Personally i think they are too expensive, but also the CP tax is kind of dumb.

If you were running 1, then i could see it, but i wouldnt run any more...and if you were to take 1, you have to ask why not take a leviathan for really not that much more points, for far better firepower

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Is the new Chaos Contemptor viable for a DG list?

 

Double twin-lascannons plus cyclone launcher means 6 x D6 potential damage. The other options look good, too.

 

Or it's too expensive?

Personally i think they are too expensive, but also the CP tax is kind of dumb.

If you were running 1, then i could see it, but i wouldnt run any more...and if you were to take 1, you have to ask why not take a leviathan for really not that much more points, for far better firepower

The reason why would be the CORE keyword, which the Contemptor has but the Leviathan and Deredeo do not. This means that the Blightbringer, Tallyman, Tollkeeper, Haze of Corruptiont, and many other things work on them when they won't on the others.

 

Nick Nanavati recently did some work against BA with a double Volkite Contemptor buffed with rerolls from Morty. Tollkeeper would make that just crazy.

 

I'd pay another CP to get a second one, maybe even pay for a third if they all fell into synergies with crazy stuff that targets CORE for massive spike damage.

Edited January 30, 2021 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Plaguecaster]

Volkite is pretty awesome gonna be running a contempotor or leviathan with some volkite to really deal some damage

 

The CP tax isn't as bad as what some people made it out to be ill still be taking as much as I can alongside some defilers for some lovely long range fire power we seen to be lacking normally

 

Leviathan with Grav Flux bombard, double twin Volkite and leviathan siege claw will probably be my main damage dealer, still angry the LOV isn't a vehicle buffer like GW made him out to be but a fighty character with the leechspore casket could help help it alive longer by healing it

Edited January 30, 2021 by Plaguecaster

[McElMcNinja]

I have 2 contemptors on the way with 4 volkites and 2 chainfists, I will magnetize, but I’m thinking 5, -4AP, D2d3 (6 on vehicles) with Haze all the spill over damage may be useful. With all the buffs they can get, these guys should put in some good work. Edited January 30, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I have 2 contemptors on the way with 4 volkites and 2 chainfists, I will magnetize, but I’m thinking 5, -4AP, D2d3 (6 on vehicles) with Haze all the spill over damage may be useful. With all the buffs they can get, these guys should put in some good work.

Yeah, Volkite/Chainfist could be brutal. You going to run Cyclones (2d6 Frag w/exploding sixes could just murder hordes as well)? Also, what's going on the weapon mount inside the Chainfist?

[Plaguecaster]

 

 

I have 2 contemptors on the way with 4 volkites and 2 chainfists, I will magnetize, but I’m thinking 5, -4AP, D2d3 (6 on vehicles) with Haze all the spill over damage may be useful. With all the buffs they can get, these guys should put in some good work.

Yeah, Volkite/Chainfist could be brutal. You going to run Cyclones (2d6 Frag w/exploding sixes could just murder hordes as well)? Also, what's going on the weapon mount inside the Chainfist?

I'd say Graviton Blaster is the best option as against anything marines it becomes D2 instead of D1

There's no way for the contemptors to have Contagions is there?

Otherwise have something nearby to help debuff their T so it can kill things easier

Edited February 1, 2021 by Plaguecaster