Command Points: How do You Spend Yours?

[Shaezus]

Just casting the net out there on this topic. Please chip in with insights and ideas.

 

I think I remember GW at the launch of 9th ed saying "you'll have more CP to spend" or words to that effect. Now I'm pretty sure what they meant was "you'll have more ways to spend CP"

 

I genuinely feel CP used wisely and used wrongly can make or break a game. How many times I've spent a CP here and there on rerolling advances or hit rolls in the first two turns, then in turn 3 I'm somehow on 1 CP and being able to use counter - offensive would absolutely swing things for me, but I can't.

 

The extra relic and WT options seems to be a bit of a trap. All too easy to start the game with 6CP, and have nothing left by the bottom of turn 2.

 

Now I've come around to pre - planning or rationing what I will spend CP on before the game. I reckon that over 5 turns I'll need no less than 13 CP. Something like this:

 

1 x smokescreen

4 x transhuman

3 x suppression fire

1 x Angel's sacrifice

1 x fury of the 1st

1 x commanding oratory (at 1CP with master of sanctity)

2 for counter offensive

 

Obviously it's interchangeable and if I don't use smokescreen for example, I could use fury of the first twice. Then there's potential bonus CP from killing characters with the assassin, but I haven't factored in the CP for using any assassin strats.

 

Just so, so tight.

 

Any suggestions or methods are welcome

[Karhedron]

4 uses of THP seems more than I would use, although I still run a fair number of Firstborn units. Generally speaking I use THP early on to soften a big hit against a big unit. By the late game, it tends to be a bit scrappy and I expect any surviving units to fend for themselves. If my opponent still has units pumping out significant quantities of S8 attacks by T4, chances are I have already lost anyway.

 

It's true that there are never enough CPs but I still feel the value of baked in abilities from Relics and WLTs give a good return on investment. Yes they are less flexible than stratagems but they also provide longer lasting bonuses. The easiest example is the WLT Gift of Foresight. In each turn, you can reroll 1 hit, 1 wound and save for your WL. That is potentially a maximum of 30 rerolls across a 5 turn game. Now obviously you will never use every single one but when you compare the value this WLT provides compared to a single 1CP reroll, it is an easy pick. It also allows you to potentially reroll 2 failed saves per turn if you have not sufficiently appeased the dice gods.

 

I am not saying you necessarily need to load every Character in your army to the max but I certainly don't regard extra relics or WLTs as a trap.

[Rhavien]

Same here. Never have as much points as I would like to. On the other side I feel CP spent on the right relics and WLTs saves you a lot. Charge reroll bubble via icon of the angel? Yes please! Gift of Foresight as Karhedron said and so on.

[Gloomfoe]

Transhuman. That is all

[Shaezus]

For sure, pre game CP can save in game CP. Selfless healer alone could save me 4CP per game. The trap is in taking so many of these. Would I really use gift of foresight on the chapter champion enough to justify it?

 

Once I go past a certain point with pregame CP, it almost guarantees I'll be wanting during the game.

 

Transhuman sees more use if I have to take first turn. If going second I can get away with using it two or three times.

[The Unseen]

I actually find that I'm using less cp during game than I was in 9th

Without needing forlorn fury, upon wings, and descent every game turn 1/2, I find the relics and traits are worth more as most games I find run down to turn 3 or 4 before a winner is determined with progressive scoring. So those effects, if leveraged properly, are worth a lot over the course of the game, as they're always on.

Gift of Foresight is basically just saying, at least once this game I'm going to spend cp to reroll something for my captain, any more uses out of it are straight money.

The only one I haven't been completely sold on in my list is psychic mastery, but its still pretty damn good. Shocked the hell out of my opponent when the libby had +2 to deny within 12". (+1 to psychic tests, deny is a psychic test, plus psychic hood)

 

Transhuman is great when it's good (or you could just play DA I guess)

 

Having cp left in the bank for counter attack is absolutely crucial though.

[Are Verlo]

Not strictly a BA issue this with CPs. You will have more units to spend the CPs on early game, so I guess most of us will spend them early go get the most effect for the them.

 

The newest codexes(codexi?) have a few strats where the cost is different for various unit sizes.

 

A prime example using the CPs at first opportunist, would be when I field my Emperor’s Children. It’s soo much more efficient to use Veterans, endless cacop and frequencies on a 20 strong unit. 1 turn later they might be reduced to half strenght and that would just give half the return compared to a full strenght unit. So unless the unit is in reserves, I’ll gladly burn 4CPs a turn on a unit like that.

 

GW moving away from extreme spikey damage/burst is a good thing IMO

Edited January 30, 2021 by Are Verlo

[Karhedron]

GW moving away from extreme spikey damage/burst is a good thing IMO

I know you are right but I still miss my Captain Smash with Red Rampage and Honour of the Chapter.

[Shaezus]

 

The newest codexes(codexi?)

 

 

 

Codice

[Xenith]

Codices is the gramatically correct one, Codexes is what GW uses, I think. 

 

Good Q. I've only played a handful of 9th, and one game with the new BA Supplement using a terminator heavy list, but my general strategy is to burn through them as fast as possible in-game to leverage as early an advantage over my opponent as possible. In he TDA list I used fury of the first every turn. That's hilarious. 

 

I'm probably using 3-4 pre-game on traits and relics for other characters, like armour indomitus and selfless healer on a priest. Likewise, High chaplain is gold if you're going to be relying on sermons. 

 

With the new book, it'll probably be 

Angel examplar (gift of foresight), angel ascenant (quake/MC), indomitus+selfless healer, forlorn fury, I dont use much primaris so one THP, 1 counter assault, 1 overwatch, 1 command reroll per turn. 

 

 

The only one I haven't been completely sold on in my list is psychic mastery, but its still pretty damn good. Shocked the hell out of my opponent when the libby had +2 to deny within 12". (+1 to psychic tests, deny is a psychic test, plus psychic hood)

 

 

This is not correct - a "Deny the Witch Test" is not a "Psychic Test" - p214 of the rulebook. In order to manifest a power, you take a psychic test, in order to try and nullify a power, a model must pass a deny the witch test.

[Shaezus]

Codices is the gramatically correct one, Codexes is what GW uses, I think.

 

Good Q. I've only played a handful of 9th, and one game with the new BA Supplement using a terminator heavy list, but my general strategy is to burn through them as fast as possible in-game to leverage as early an advantage over my opponent as possible. In he TDA list I used fury of the first every turn. That's hilarious.

 

I'm probably using 3-4 pre-game on traits and relics for other characters, like armour indomitus and selfless healer on a priest. Likewise, High chaplain is gold if you're going to be relying on sermons.

 

With the new book, it'll probably be

Angel examplar (gift of foresight), angel ascenant (quake/MC), indomitus+selfless healer, forlorn fury, I dont use much primaris so one THP, 1 counter assault, 1 overwatch, 1 command reroll per turn.

 

 

 

The only one I haven't been completely sold on in my list is psychic mastery, but its still pretty damn good. Shocked the hell out of my opponent when the libby had +2 to deny within 12". (+1 to psychic tests, deny is a psychic test, plus psychic hood)

 

 

This is not correct - a "Deny the Witch Test" is not a "Psychic Test" - p214 of the rulebook. In order to manifest a power, you take a psychic test, in order to try and nullify a power, a model must pass a deny the witch test.

Fury of the First is a brilliant one so fair play if you use it every turn! It's not like we are DA or DG, who have built in WS2.

 

And yes the psychic mastery only gives a bonus to casting, not deny.

[Xenith]

Yea, that game was interesting. I managed to cram 21 TDA models into a 1000pt patrol detachment. Hard to hang onto objectives, but FotF with 10 storm bolters was hilarious. 

[DistractionTacMarine]

I feel like we have a lot less need for CP in 9th compared to 8th while also having more. I am really comfortable spending 6CP pregame on relics and WLT and upgrades because 6CP can easily get me through the first bit of a game and I know I have 5 more coming.

 

I tend to plan out for 2CP of Forlorn Fury, one use of Refusal to Die, a couple uses of Fury of the First if I brought Terminators, and maybe 1-2 Transhuman/Smokescreen (although I don’t run very much Primaris). I try to avoid using command rerolls but realistically I’ll likely use one per battle round if there’s something important happening. Keeping 2CP around for a key interrupt or auto-pass morale is more important that rerolling a hit or whatever in most cases.