How are you finding new DG "on the table"?

[Bulwyf]

 

I finally got my first game in with DG. Played with Morty against a complete cheeseball Salamander successor list. Morty died top of turn 2 from 8 Eradicators, Redemptor Dreads and then being charged by Bladeguard Vets and a souped up primaris chaplain on bike with absolutely insane melee stats and damage.

 

After that I didn't have enough to deal with his list and after we calculated he would go up on points by turn 4 I couldn't make up the point difference. I don't understand the people who think Morty is unkillable. He died very easily frankly. He only managed to kill one Incursor squad before he died so nice to see my 500 points in Morty only earned back 105 points or so.

Different marine chapters feature different weapons. Salamanders emphasis on meltas, hammers and flamers, which aren't hurt a lot by DG's -1dmg.

 

 

Yes, the -1 DMG was worthless.  It literally had no impact whatsoever to the damage received since every unit just died anyways. I found it unreal to see how crazy overpowered Salamanders were against DG. I've fought them with Space Wolves and had enough to win. But DG? Not even close frankly. The imbalance between loyalist SM and our guys is enormous.

[Marshal Loss]

Sallies are particularly problematic for us (I also suffer from having a local Sallies player ), but I wouldn't say there's a vast gulf between us & all SM. We hard counter chapters like Blood Angels & White Scars for example.

[Bulwyf]

Sallies are particularly problematic for us (I also suffer from having a local Sallies player ), but I wouldn't say there's a vast gulf between us & all SM. We hard counter chapters like Blood Angels & White Scars for example.

 

It doesn't help that this player has turned into a WAAC player at this point. He used to be a die hard Black Legion player that rage quit over how bad CSM was in 8th (which I agree CSM is bad) and came back with a successor chapter. He plans on switching it out to whatever is the best loyal SM chapter at any time so for now he's all about Salamanders. 

[Dark Legionnare]

 

Sallies are particularly problematic for us (I also suffer from having a local Sallies player :ermm:), but I wouldn't say there's a vast gulf between us & all SM. We hard counter chapters like Blood Angels & White Scars for example.

 

It doesn't help that this player has turned into a WAAC player at this point. He used to be a die hard Black Legion player that rage quit over how bad CSM was in 8th (which I agree CSM is bad) and came back with a successor chapter. He plans on switching it out to whatever is the best loyal SM chapter at any time so for now he's all about Salamanders.

If he's so blatant, and flippant possibly, about it, sounds like it's time to put him on the blacklist. Sounds like a prime example of the kind of folks who ruin the hobby for those around them, especially the casual players/builders/painters.

 

Also, yeah, eradicators annihilate plague marines and do decent Blightlord/shroud hunting for very cheap points investment, it can be pretty disheartening. Especially since with those damn rifles being 24", it can be very difficult to screen out the D6+2 effect when they strategic-reserve in.

 

(They ALWAYS strat-reserves in. I miss the days of outflank, etc... being a strength of some factions, not everybody and their mother able to do it)

Edited February 16, 2021 by Dark Legionnare

[Muskie]

With an actual pandemic going on no idea when I'll get to play but I got the codex today and will try to get the Diseased Sons back on the table or at least looking legal eventually. I just don't have much painting mojo anymore and spend too much time alone at my desk working from home as is. It used to be you could have two special weapons in a Plague Marine squad and the champ could have a plasma gun, that squad seems out, but can you have a blight launcher and plague spewer then when you hit 10 models a second of these guns. Then it seems like you can have a special weapon every five models. I'm not sure how many special weapons a Plague Marine unit of ten can actually have.

 

I will try various flavours but I took think the terminators will do a lot of heavy lifting and I'm thinking of having a defiler or a hellbrute at least. It seems the crawlers are getting less love but the flesh mower or drones in general seem fun. I generally play for fun and I used to paint and convert more. I'm going to go Lord of Virulence and 7th Plague Company, because "Sons" and plague flamers. Not sure how I'll run my blight lords. I have reapers galore painted even a heavy flamer model converted I want to lean into the 7th Plague Company theme and I always liked auto hitting. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

With an actual pandemic going on no idea when I'll get to play but I got the codex today and will try to get the Diseased Sons back on the table or at least looking legal eventually. I just don't have much painting mojo anymore and spend too much time alone at my desk working from home as is. It used to be you could have two special weapons in a Plague Marine squad and the champ could have a plasma gun, that squad seems out, but can you have a blight launcher and plague spewer then when you hit 10 models a second of these guns. Then it seems like you can have a special weapon every five models. I'm not sure how many special weapons a Plague Marine unit of ten can actually have.

 

I will try various flavours but I took think the terminators will do a lot of heavy lifting and I'm thinking of having a defiler or a hellbrute at least. It seems the crawlers are getting less love but the flesh mower or drones in general seem fun. I generally play for fun and I used to paint and convert more. I'm going to go Lord of Virulence and 7th Plague Company, because "Sons" and plague flamers. Not sure how I'll run my blight lords. I have reapers galore painted even a heavy flamer model converted I want to lean into the 7th Plague Company theme and I always liked auto hitting.

In a squad of 5, you get one blight launcher and one plague spewer. At 10, you can get one more, but not both (so 3 total in a 10 man). Then for every 5 you can take a melta, plague Belcher or plasma gun (so 2 at 10). Champs can still take the plasma as well. PBC are better than ever if you take the entropy cannons. They are now d3+3 damage and plague weapons. Crawlers also hit on 3's and their mortars lost the minimum range requirement and is a flat 2 damage instead of d3.

[Bulwyf]

I played a second game with my DG. Non Morty game against a Sisters player. I won the game by turn 2 due to his inability to deal with 3 PBC and the -1 Toughness just making his units so easy to kill. I believe I had killed half his army in two turns if not more. I actually felt bad for how lopsided the game was.

[McElMcNinja]

I had a couple games, the first against Deathwing and the second Dark Eldar/Harlequin. I won both 94-55 and 97-71, with 2 different lists. I was more concerned with the Deathwing then the Eldar, but once I got his big unit of knights in the middle of the board I kept him in range of the Droning and picked off everything else. He was never able to come close to me with them. My casualties from that game was a drone and a PBC. The second game I lost 2 PBCs, a unit of 5 BLs, and I had 2 units of 20 Poxwalkers down to 1 a piece.

 

Both very fun games and very educational.

[Tokugawa]

I had a couple games, the first against Deathwing and the second Dark Eldar/Harlequin. I won both 94-55 and 97-71, with 2 different lists. I was more concerned with the Deathwing then the Eldar, but once I got his big unit of knights in the middle of the board I kept him in range of the Droning and picked off everything else. He was never able to come close to me with them. My casualties from that game was a drone and a PBC. The second game I lost 2 PBCs, a unit of 5 BLs, and I had 2 units of 20 Poxwalkers down to 1 a piece.

 

Both very fun games and very educational.

97 means you only missed 3 VPs of all available VPs? That is awesome! What secondaries you selected?

[Tokugawa]

I played a second game with my DG. Non Morty game against a Sisters player. I won the game by turn 2 due to his inability to deal with 3 PBC and the -1 Toughness just making his units so easy to kill. I believe I had killed half his army in two turns if not more. I actually felt bad for how lopsided the game was.

Congratulations. What his army look like? On paper, sister infantries could ignore -1/-2AP when sit next to imaginifiers, are they really that fragile?

[Bulwyf]

 

I played a second game with my DG. Non Morty game against a Sisters player. I won the game by turn 2 due to his inability to deal with 3 PBC and the -1 Toughness just making his units so easy to kill. I believe I had killed half his army in two turns if not more. I actually felt bad for how lopsided the game was.

Congratulations. What his army look like? On paper, sister infantries could ignore -1/-2AP when sit next to imaginifiers, are they really that fragile?

 

 

thanks. He had several sisters squads, some sisters with the multi meltas, repentia in a rhino and some arco flagellants. he had I think 9 total characters in the list including Celestine. He only had one Exorcist tank and was really depending on the multi melta squads to deal with my armor but I picked them off with my shooting before they could do anything.

He did get some licks in but the game was over once my guys were in melee range to all of his units. They definitely hit hard but my counter punch was obscenely disgusting. Deathshroud and BL in combat are so fun.

[McElMcNinja]

 

I had a couple games, the first against Deathwing and the second Dark Eldar/Harlequin. I won both 94-55 and 97-71, with 2 different lists. I was more concerned with the Deathwing then the Eldar, but once I got his big unit of knights in the middle of the board I kept him in range of the Droning and picked off everything else. He was never able to come close to me with them. My casualties from that game was a drone and a PBC. The second game I lost 2 PBCs, a unit of 5 BLs, and I had 2 units of 20 Poxwalkers down to 1 a piece.

 

Both very fun games and very educational.

97 means you only missed 3 VPs of all available VPs? That is awesome! What secondaries you selected?

I took WWSWF with 2 of my 3 5 man BLs units and my unit of 4 DS. Raise the Banners and Bring it Down, which under the old points I would have had scored all 15 for. The rest of that army was Typhus, Plaguecaster, 3x20 Poxwalkers, Blightspawn, Tallyman, and Surgeon plus the 2 PBCs.

[jgascoine011]

 

 

I had a couple games, the first against Deathwing and the second Dark Eldar/Harlequin. I won both 94-55 and 97-71, with 2 different lists. I was more concerned with the Deathwing then the Eldar, but once I got his big unit of knights in the middle of the board I kept him in range of the Droning and picked off everything else. He was never able to come close to me with them. My casualties from that game was a drone and a PBC. The second game I lost 2 PBCs, a unit of 5 BLs, and I had 2 units of 20 Poxwalkers down to 1 a piece.

 

Both very fun games and very educational.

97 means you only missed 3 VPs of all available VPs? That is awesome! What secondaries you selected?

I took WWSWF with 2 of my 3 5 man BLs units and my unit of 4 DS. Raise the Banners and Bring it Down, which under the old points I would have had scored all 15 for. The rest of that army was Typhus, Plaguecaster, 3x20 Poxwalkers, Blightspawn, Tallyman, and Surgeon plus the 2 PBCs.

Who was raising the banner? The blight lords?

[McElMcNinja]

The Blightlords 2 and the Deathshroud did 1, all on turn 1.

[Muskie]

 

With an actual pandemic going on no idea when I'll get to play but I got the codex today and will try to get the Diseased Sons back on the table or at least looking legal eventually. I just don't have much painting mojo anymore and spend too much time alone at my desk working from home as is. It used to be you could have two special weapons in a Plague Marine squad and the champ could have a plasma gun, that squad seems out, but can you have a blight launcher and plague spewer then when you hit 10 models a second of these guns. Then it seems like you can have a special weapon every five models. I'm not sure how many special weapons a Plague Marine unit of ten can actually have.

 

I will try various flavours but I took think the terminators will do a lot of heavy lifting and I'm thinking of having a defiler or a hellbrute at least. It seems the crawlers are getting less love but the flesh mower or drones in general seem fun. I generally play for fun and I used to paint and convert more. I'm going to go Lord of Virulence and 7th Plague Company, because "Sons" and plague flamers. Not sure how I'll run my blight lords. I have reapers galore painted even a heavy flamer model converted I want to lean into the 7th Plague Company theme and I always liked auto hitting.

In a squad of 5, you get one blight launcher and one plague spewer. At 10, you can get one more, but not both (so 3 total in a 10 man). Then for every 5 you can take a melta, plague Belcher or plasma gun (so 2 at 10). Champs can still take the plasma as well. PBC are better than ever if you take the entropy cannons. They are now d3+3 damage and plague weapons. Crawlers also hit on 3's and their mortars lost the minimum range requirement and is a flat 2 damage instead of d3.

 

 

I have no Plague Burst Crawlers painted or otherwise, they do seem better. I want to use the models I have painted and just augment say a couple squads first. I also will do Blightlords and Deathshroud, but the first squad I will do is 2 * Plague Belchers and 2 * Plaque Spewers. I'm leaning into being the the 7th Plague Company. Not sure if that squad should get a rhino, probably eventually, because  no one would walk within range of that squad. I remember the old Plague Havoc squads with 4 special weapons, I made the 20 man 4 plasma version, but it seems for Troop choices or Core choices Plague Marines are a bit shootier than they used to be especially if you can get within 12 inches. In bigger games I'll probably bring a Defiler or a Landraider but for small games I want as many models as I can get and at 21 points per Death Guard that isn't so many. Are people buying one rhino per Plague Marine squad?

[Tokugawa]

 

 

 

With an actual pandemic going on no idea when I'll get to play but I got the codex today and will try to get the Diseased Sons back on the table or at least looking legal eventually. I just don't have much painting mojo anymore and spend too much time alone at my desk working from home as is. It used to be you could have two special weapons in a Plague Marine squad and the champ could have a plasma gun, that squad seems out, but can you have a blight launcher and plague spewer then when you hit 10 models a second of these guns. Then it seems like you can have a special weapon every five models. I'm not sure how many special weapons a Plague Marine unit of ten can actually have.

 

I will try various flavours but I took think the terminators will do a lot of heavy lifting and I'm thinking of having a defiler or a hellbrute at least. It seems the crawlers are getting less love but the flesh mower or drones in general seem fun. I generally play for fun and I used to paint and convert more. I'm going to go Lord of Virulence and 7th Plague Company, because "Sons" and plague flamers. Not sure how I'll run my blight lords. I have reapers galore painted even a heavy flamer model converted I want to lean into the 7th Plague Company theme and I always liked auto hitting.

In a squad of 5, you get one blight launcher and one plague spewer. At 10, you can get one more, but not both (so 3 total in a 10 man). Then for every 5 you can take a melta, plague Belcher or plasma gun (so 2 at 10). Champs can still take the plasma as well. PBC are better than ever if you take the entropy cannons. They are now d3+3 damage and plague weapons. Crawlers also hit on 3's and their mortars lost the minimum range requirement and is a flat 2 damage instead of d3.

I have no Plague Burst Crawlers painted or otherwise, they do seem better. I want to use the models I have painted and just augment say a couple squads first. I also will do Blightlords and Deathshroud, but the first squad I will do is 2 * Plague Belchers and 2 * Plaque Spewers. I'm leaning into being the the 7th Plague Company. Not sure if that squad should get a rhino, probably eventually, because no one would walk within range of that squad. I remember the old Plague Havoc squads with 4 special weapons, I made the 20 man 4 plasma version, but it seems for Troop choices or Core choices Plague Marines are a bit shootier than they used to be especially if you can get within 12 inches. In bigger games I'll probably bring a Defiler or a Landraider but for small games I want as many models as I can get and at 21 points per Death Guard that isn't so many. Are people buying one rhino per Plague Marine squad?

In 9th, killing a 80pts rhino is much more easier than killing 4 plaguemarines. Don't over-kit your PMs. A 10-men PM unit in rhino, with some wargears, could excess 340pts, which is even more expensive than 8 blightlords.

 

Ask your opponent. Do not ask yourself. Which is more powerful? Which one he is more afraid of? 10 plaguemarines, or 8 terminators?

[Bulwyf]

I know this might be surprising to some to hear but in 9th edition I don't think transports are worth taking. At all. Just run your guys up the table or bring them off the board. The points for transports are better spent on more boots on the ground or even another tank.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I have no Plague Burst Crawlers painted or otherwise, they do seem better. I want to use the models I have painted and just augment say a couple squads first. I also will do Blightlords and Deathshroud, but the first squad I will do is 2 * Plague Belchers and 2 * Plaque Spewers. I'm leaning into being the the 7th Plague Company. Not sure if that squad should get a rhino, probably eventually, because no one would walk within range of that squad. I remember the old Plague Havoc squads with 4 special weapons, I made the 20 man 4 plasma version, but it seems for Troop choices or Core choices Plague Marines are a bit shootier than they used to be especially if you can get within 12 inches. In bigger games I'll probably bring a Defiler or a Landraider but for small games I want as many models as I can get and at 21 points per Death Guard that isn't so many. Are people buying one rhino per Plague Marine squad?

I've had zero luck with rhino's and as someone else suggested just bring more marines instead. Defilers don't get the legion trait of being able to fire heavies in combat with no penalty nor do they get DR, and went up like 30pts in 9th and in my opinion are not worth it. Land raiders as well. Without DR these units shout out "shoot me first with your multi damage weapons!". Rarely will they make it past T1 in my games. Plus with rhino's you're usually transporting obsec marines with either melee/flamers/grenade guy combo and most opponents know to shoot it first because of how easily it folds under fire. Obviously this is all my experience, others might and will vary.

 

I can't comment on how a flamer squad of PM's will do, so you will have to play test it when you can and let me know. My last game I had a melee group of PM's with cloud of flies advancing behind a group of haulers with 4++ with -1 to hit and it worked out pretty well. My brother's admech had a hard time bringing them down and never finished off all 3.

[Xenith]

I know this might be surprising to some to hear but in 9th edition I don't think transports are worth taking. At all. Just run your guys up the table or bring them off the board. The points for transports are better spent on more boots on the ground or even another tank.

 

With smaller board sizes, the lethality of weapons, and the vulnerability of vehicles, most are't worth taking, unless they have some really powerful weapons and some resilience, like the PBC. Great to see some wins with the DG, though I'm not looking forward to facing them with my BA - As said, they seem a hard counter to everything BA can throw at them. 

[Bulwyf]

 

I know this might be surprising to some to hear but in 9th edition I don't think transports are worth taking. At all. Just run your guys up the table or bring them off the board. The points for transports are better spent on more boots on the ground or even another tank.

 

With smaller board sizes, the lethality of weapons, and the vulnerability of vehicles, most are't worth taking, unless they have some really powerful weapons and some resilience, like the PBC. Great to see some wins with the DG, though I'm not looking forward to facing them with my BA - As said, they seem a hard counter to everything BA can throw at them. 

 

 

I think DG are a hard counter to any melee armies. Unfortunately for me I'm the only person that really runs melee lists in my local area. 

[Muskie]

I have done all infantry armies and I think a bit of extra mobility can be useful, that said my main mission seems to be to bring as many Plague Spewers as I can. I just think the 12" range and auto hit is all good, especially if you get box cars plus that stratagem. I will try to pull that off every game. 

[McElMcNinja]

I think transports can be useful depending on the mission. They may also help your army if you’re relying on a mobile army for your secondaries. One of my latest games I didn’t need mobility and so I didn’t take transports. I do have a list that I built around certain secondaries and included a rhino and a drill. It really all depends on what you want your army to accomplish.

I also like flamer type weapons with certain builds, if I plan on jumping out and flaming I don’t expect to get a charge off, but I plan on being able to overwatch and take some models out on their way in. That’s what I like about our codex, you have options depending on what you like or how you want to play.

[McElMcNinja]

I had a good game against DE today, he conceded turn 3.5. Morty was able to stay safe the first 3 turns and I used him to do psychic ritual before he got dug in. By this point I had lost a unit of 20 Poxwalkers, 2 PBCs, 1 Deathshroud, and 2 PMs. I had scored 15 for PR then would score 10 for WWSWF, 12 for Vital Ground, and 45 for Primary. He was only going to score 20 primary, 0 for Vital Ground, 0 for assassinate, and 0 or 10 for Deploy Scramblers.

I was running 3 PBCs, 2 with cannons and 1 with spitters. So my 3 WWSWFs were Morty and the the 2 cannons. I ran the spitter one up the board and he had to take that one out first, the 3 mortars killed the units that could Deploy Scramblers limiting what he could bring at me.

He is going to adjust his list and we are to play later this week before a tournament this weekend, so I may not do so good. I will let you all know.

[KingYertle]

Thanks Ninja.  How did you approach securing the primaries before the DE units?

 

I've had a very different experience playing vs DE although both games were Incursion 1k games rather than 2k.  In both, despite going first I was not able to advance up on the primary in T1.  The DE player, playing Cult of Strife was able to use their speed and MSU units to both charge my advancing units while other units secured the objectives.  Between Heat and Dark lances sniping my terminators (DE being able to fall back and charge is brutal) and Wytches supported by a Succubus hitting like a freight train I was unable to push those units off my lines in a single fight phase.  As a result my forward push stalled and the DE player easily took board control to rack up Primary points.

 

In Game 1 I was actually tabled in T3.  In Game 2 I managed to survive the game but only scored 10 primary points (Domination scoring so +5 for hold 2, +5 for 3, etc).  My Blightlords spent the whole game stuck in melee combat just outside my deployment zone.  Wytches, with their 4++ invul are surprisingly resilient in melee and by the time my BL cleared them the next wave charged in.  At the same time Heat Lance Reavers made could use of terrain and their speed to get behind my lines to snipe and charge my characters.  It was a very effective game plan, as I spent the game fighting around my deployment zone while the DE player racked up Primary points with their board control.

 

We could use a separate forum just for dealing with the DE menace!

[McElMcNinja]

During deployment he went strong one side and had planned on his Helions to go grab the objective on the opposite side with not much support. While he did deploy them out of LoS, I put all my mortars into them, he made them -1 to hit, but I still was able to take out all but 3. I had been able to advance a unit of Poxwalkers up and by turn 2 a second unit. He had a Ravenger he was going to use, but I was able get both PBCs w/entropy lined up on it and took it out.

So he went all in on the other objective which I had gotten another unit of Poxwalkers on and my flamer PBC close to. I could have advanced it, but I wanted to use it’s mortar (which paid off). He cleared both of those but I countered next turn with Deathshroud and characters. I was able to pop a raider in my turn with my Plaguecaster with the skull, a smite, and curse. The Deathshroud and Blightspawn flamed the contents. This gave me the objective back. His response was emptying out another one and charging in with a lot of stuff including a damaged raider. He made my Deathshroud fight last and I made his squad fight last. I had also heroically intervened with my caster into the raider. He was only able to kill 1.66 Deathshroud, while my caster took out the damaged raider and the DS killed some troops.

Turn 3 my caster did work on some more troops, I had wounded most of his big fliers, then Morty was able to join in along with my second unit of DS. By this time he had a full raider going towards the other objective, but he had to decide if he should use them to deploy his last scrambler or attack 2 units of Poxwalkers.

That’s when he called it and we talked it out. He said he was hoping I would ignore the weak side, so it was a gamble for both of us, I just chose correctly in the end. Had I not destroyed that first Ravenger and Helions it would have been a different game. It also helped that he had to put all his big shots into the flamer PBC, had he left it I would have been in a really good spot. That left me both PBCs w/entropy to slow him down removing his speed advantage.

Edited May 3, 2021 by McElMcNinja