'Fate Dice' for Thousand Sons armies

[Xenith]

Basically, what would you think if this mechanic was introduced for Pure TS Armies?

 

For those that dont know, I believe the mechanic comes from the AoS Tzeentch daemon armies, and has a semi-clone in Sister Miracle dice.

 

Basically at the start of the game you roll 9 dice and put them aside. These dice can then be subsituted in at any time for a dice you just rolled, say like a 6 for a damage roll etc, or a 1 for a Ld test. 

 

I dont think the AoS faction has a way to replenish these, but Sisters generate them throughout the game when they complete certain acts, like passing Ld tests etc.

 

I think that this would be a fluffy, thematic direction for pure TS armies to go in. Even just making the marine changes to 2w and weapon profiles, combined with this would breathe life into the army, especially if you generate new dice when say, you cast a psychic power on a 9+. 

 

Thoughts?

[Trokair]

Two things to note, the Fate dice in AoS Tzeetch armies are a finite resource, you start with some and there are very few ways of getting more. Importantly you can use the after you made the roll.

 

Sister start with no Miracle dice but generate some each turn and can generate extra by doing certain things. Importantly they have to be used before and instead of a roll. So while sisters will have more dice potentially over the game they cannot use them to fix a bad roll, they instead use them to guarantee a roll (irrespective o whether they would have passed of failed such a roll).

Based on this Fate dice are inherently more powerful, but in a limited supply and if you rolled them badly then Tzeetch does not smile upon you.

 

Giving TS Fate dice the same as AoS with the ability to easily gain more would be way to powerful I think. However giving them the same limited supply is probably ok.

 

It would also contrast the fate vs faith behind the similar mechanic. The sisters spend miracle dice to make something certain and free from chance, while TS would spend Fate dice to change what chance has dished out to the player.

 

Now with the sisters, because they generate them each turn of certain actions and abilities, the accumulation of dice scales a little with the size of the game. This would not be the case with Fate dice (to the best of my understanding) so in larger games the mechanic would be weaker and in smaller games it would be stronger. So possibly tie the generation in matched play to the size of game, or if sticking to the thematic 9 allow some rerolls of some of them after they are generated  in larger game so the player can take rolls that are less useful and try and turn them into more useful Fate Dice.

[WarriorFish]

Yes, all such things must scale with the game to ensure they're fair. I think it'd be a good fit thematically as well as a good boost for the army (which is in want of them). Tzeentch is Tzeentch after all, fantasy or space fantasy :P

 

Such passive or soft boons are a pretty important part of an army now it seems; armies with more are noticeably stronger for it. Sons are lacking here and while as noted this isn't their only issue it'd go a long way. As you mentioned the best part is it'd add a new dynamic to playing and give you more a more flavourful and fun game for it.

[The Yncarne]

I'd prefer to have something that lets me use a Gaze of Fate mechanism more often than this method. This edition's use of dice and tracking minutia is already bordering on role-playing levels.

[Xenith]

Great thoughts, @Trokair - didn't realise SoB start with none, and Disciples of Tzeentch couldn't generate more, it would definitely need to scale with the game - maybe a number of fate dice equal to the command points you receive? 

 

One other thought would be to have a fixed 6 or 9, but actually physically swap in game results for the fate dice, so you keep 9, but the actual numbers on those dice keep changing. If you keep swapping 1's for 6's early on, in later turns you'll have a bunch of ones and be out of luck as Tzeentch abandons you to your fate. 

I'd prefer to have something that lets me use a Gaze of Fate mechanism more often than this method. This edition's use of dice and tracking minutia is already bordering on role-playing levels.

 

What's a gaze of fate mechanism?

[The Yncarne]

Gaze of Fate - reroll one dice this turn.

[byrd9999]

Fate Dice for T-Sons is a great idea.

 

They are supposed to be the premier spell-casters in the game, and so much of the tactics revolves around getting the buffs in place, that it seems odd there wouldn't be more buffs to casting.

 

Being able to swap-out Fate Dice for when you really need to correct a roll for a spell to go off is a good way of doing it.

[Trokair]

 

 

One other thought would be to have a fixed 6 or 9, but actually physically swap in game results for the fate dice, so you keep 9, but the actual numbers on those dice keep changing. If you keep swapping 1's for 6's early on, in later turns you'll have a bunch of ones and be out of luck as Tzeentch abandons you to your fate. 

 

 

I like this idea, but you would have to limit how often it can be done per turn/phase, otherwise plays could farm new good dice such as 6s by swapping out good with lesser dice that still succeeds. For example changing a hit roll of 6 a 3 or 4 (depending on which is required to hit) and still hit and now have a stored 6 to use when they need it.

 

Great thoughts, Trokair - didn't realise SoB start with none, and Disciples of Tzeentch couldn't generate more, it would definitely need to scale with the game - maybe a number of fate dice equal to the command points you receive? 

 

 

Sisters generate one at the beginning of each battle round (two with the right list building choices) and then for doing certain things, so they kind of start with one (or two) and have to build up a pool to have flexibility.

 

AoS Tzeetch can earn a few Destiny dice back and change/substitute existing Destiny dice these methods are much fewer and harder than sisters getting miracle dice. AoS is also limited to max 9 dice in the pool at any point while sisters can have as many as they can generate (however if you have generated that many and not used them you are doing something wrong).

 

My worry with makign them equal to comand points is that they just become comand points 2.0. 

 

I think a better idea is to have 9 as in AoS but in larger games you can either subtitude more, earn more or reroll more of them when you generate them so that you are more likly to have the ones you need. 

 

 

As a Psyker army how about turning perils of the warp into further destiny dice. The energy of the spell is not lost in the miscast; it is turned into future potential instead, showing how Tzeetch protects its own. While you still would not want to get a perils of the warp there would now be an upside rather than just a penalty. Given the nature of TS perils will happen and they will happen more in larger games due to having more casters on the field.

[Prot]

The idea and premise is really cool. Knowing me I'd roll 9 ones and just face palm my way through the game. lol

 

I think Miracle dice are just so incredibly strong, and it can be manipulated (re-rolled, etc) I wonder if GW will reel in that mechanism once the SoB codex comes out. I have to wonder if this is a good or bad thing.

[Halandaar]

I do like the fate dice mechanic and would happily see Thousand Sons (and mono-Tzeentch Daemon armies) get it, or a version of it. 

[Trokair]

Sisters Act of Faith has been different in every single version of their codex over the year. So while I like the current system I fully expect it to be completely and utterly different with the next codex.

 

While the current system is strong, to get the most out of it you need to spend points on the right models/equipment and pick faction traits, warlord traits, relics and stratagems in the right combination, so it an investment to use well and not just a bonus, and it still depends on rolling good dice to use.

 

Even with the reroll relic I often end up with dice that are difficult to utilize, 2 especially.  

 

 

Any way on topic, for TS maybe limit it so that a unit can only receive the benefit of a destiny dice if it was not the last unit to have used a destiny dice. This would stop one unit making the perfect spell, perfect shot, wound, charge, hit and damage all in one turn. Instead Tzetches blessing have to be spread out a bit more.

[Umbros]

In theory I like the idea. In practice Tzeentch in AOS have been a disaster in both iterations of the book. Not solely because of the fate dice, but the reliability it offers in an game of dice ican be very decisive.

 

I'd prefer if there was a detriment for them - if you use one, your opponent generates a dice they can use later in the battle, for example. This reflects the whims of Tzeentch whilst also being less powerful than the TS' version.