Enamel Varnish over an Acrylic paint job?

[Master Commander Ajax]

Increasingly I’ve taken to using oil washes on my miniatures. I always paint the models themselves with Citadel acrylics and then use Humbrol acrylic varnish from a rattle can to protect the paint job. Despite my best efforts however I do sometimes end up damaging the paint job. I’ve bought a can of Humbrol enamel varnish figuring that it would do a better job of protecting the paint work, however I’ve no experience using this sort of varnish before.

 

 

My question is is it safe to use an enamel varnish over an acrylic paint job?

[thewarriorhunter]

Regarding your original technique how long were you letting the varnish dry? I've talked to folks that have experience a similar issue and they said that usually happens when they didn't give enough time for the varnish to dry. Some of them said they would let it sit for 24 hours just to make sure everything was set and sealed.

[andes]

My worry with using an enamel varnish is that the white spirits in the oil wash (and subsequent touch/clean up) would damage the varnish coat. I've never done it so can't say exactly what would happen but I imagine it'd end up a gummy mess.

 

I use Vallejo Gloss Acrylic Varnish applied with an airbrush under oil washes. I do a couple of light coats, letting it dry for roughly 5 minutes between coats then about half an hour before applying the washes. Once the oil wash is dry, I hit it with Vallejo Acrylic Matte varnish.

[Imren]

Oil paint (containing oil) dries much slower (oil evaporates slower than water) compared to enamels or acrylic paints.

 

If you use oil paint for painting minis (i .e. pin washing, weathering etc) then you can reduce the time it takes for the oil paint to dry/cure by putting the oilpaint on cardboard (the brown corrugated packaging cardboard works best) and let the cardboard soak up the oil from the paint for 1-2 hours before using it (You wil lsee the oil stain grow on the cardboard out of the spot where the oilpaint is put). Then when the majority of the (lineseed)oil is soaked up by the cardboard you take the somewhat dried paint and thin it with (odourless) white spriit to make your oil paint wash or to slightly thin it to paint streaks etc.

 

Doing this will reduce the drying/curing time of the oil paint job from 4-5 days (up to a week) down to 1-2 days.

 

When dried/cured you can apply a varnish of your choice (acrylic, polyurethane or enamel based). Preferably with an airbrush for best results (smooth thin layer).

 

Poluurethane varnishes are the preferred one since they give best results without being as toxic as enamel based ones when sprayed/airbrushed.

 

Recommended polyurethane varnish are (from the Vallejo range):

• 27.650 Gloss varnish
• 27.651 Matt varnish

 

 

This above procedure is tried and tested and taught at the Forgeworld style 30k army painting classes.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Imren

[Master Commander Ajax]

So I Paint the model, then apply a coat of varnish and THEN use the oil washes. I bought the enamel varnish as I reasoned the oil wash would have a harder time eating through it. I’ve not used an enamel varnish over an acrylic paint job before though and wanted to make sure that the varnish ITSELF isn’t going to interfere with the acrylic paint. Edited February 3, 2021 by Master Commander Ajax

[Bloody Legionnaire]

If you're looking for finish protection then you really want to use a lacquer based varnish and not an enamel based.. just fyi.

To answer your question, as long as you allow the acrylic undercoat/finish to completely dry (cure.. whatever) you do not need to worry about which type of varnish you use to seal/protect the paint finish. That being the case enamel and lacquer varnishes will be much stronger and more "gaming" resistant than acrylic varnishes will, so I think you're on the right track. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Master Commander Ajax]

If you're looking for finish protection then you really want to use a lacquer based varnish and not an enamel based.. just fyi.

To answer your question, as long as you allow the acrylic undercoat/finish to completely dry (cure.. whatever) you do not need to worry about which type of varnish you use to seal/protect the paint finish. That being the case enamel and lacquer varnishes will be much stronger and more "gaming" resistant than acrylic varnishes will, so I think you're on the right track.

 

Ahh I see, I’ll go ahead and give it a go.

 

Out of interest what makes a lacquer primer better than an acrylic/enamel primer for protecting miniatures from damage? Is there a tradeoff in the finish?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

If you're looking for finish protection then you really want to use a lacquer based varnish and not an enamel based.. just fyi.

To answer your question, as long as you allow the acrylic undercoat/finish to completely dry (cure.. whatever) you do not need to worry about which type of varnish you use to seal/protect the paint finish. That being the case enamel and lacquer varnishes will be much stronger and more "gaming" resistant than acrylic varnishes will, so I think you're on the right track.

Ahh I see, I’ll go ahead and give it a go.

 

Out of interest what makes a lacquer primer better than an acrylic/enamel primer for protecting miniatures from damage? Is there a tradeoff in the finish?

 

When lacquers finish curing they create the strongest surface of the three finishes. Lacquer is also a hotter solvent than water, alcohol, or spirits used for enamels. Someone who is better at science than myself can confirm but I'm fairly certain the lacquer penetrates all of the layers of paint and then dries, cures, and hardens creating a much stronger finish.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Lovecraft0110]

Increasingly I’ve taken to using oil washes on my miniatures. I always paint the models themselves with Citadel acrylics and then use Humbrol acrylic varnish from a rattle can to protect the paint job. Despite my best efforts however I do sometimes end up damaging the paint job. I’ve bought a can of Humbrol enamel varnish figuring that it would do a better job of protecting the paint work, however I’ve no experience using this sort of varnish before.

My question is is it safe to use an enamel varnish over an acrylic paint job?

If you want to be absolutely sure, use Tamiya Clear with Lacquer thinner. It's what I use all the time now - you can see examples in my last few videos on YT.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

Increasingly I’ve taken to using oil washes on my miniatures. I always paint the models themselves with Citadel acrylics and then use Humbrol acrylic varnish from a rattle can to protect the paint job. Despite my best efforts however I do sometimes end up damaging the paint job. I’ve bought a can of Humbrol enamel varnish figuring that it would do a better job of protecting the paint work, however I’ve no experience using this sort of varnish before.

My question is is it safe to use an enamel varnish over an acrylic paint job?

If you want to be absolutely sure, use Tamiya Clear with Lacquer thinner. It's what I use all the time now - you can see examples in my last few videos on YT.

 

Maybe for their gloss. The only flat I get good results out of is Testors dullcote/model master flat clear lacquer

[Lovecraft0110]

 

 

Increasingly I’ve taken to using oil washes on my miniatures. I always paint the models themselves with Citadel acrylics and then use Humbrol acrylic varnish from a rattle can to protect the paint job. Despite my best efforts however I do sometimes end up damaging the paint job. I’ve bought a can of Humbrol enamel varnish figuring that it would do a better job of protecting the paint work, however I’ve no experience using this sort of varnish before.

My question is is it safe to use an enamel varnish over an acrylic paint job?

 

If you want to be absolutely sure, use Tamiya Clear with Lacquer thinner. It's what I use all the time now - you can see examples in my last few videos on YT.

Maybe for their gloss. The only flat I get good results out of is Testors dullcote/model master flat clear lacquer

Nope. Tamiya XF-86 with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner with retarder has never failed me. The preferred flat clear for most professional scale modellers.