Need help understanding rules of the codex

[Berzul]

Hey guys

 

Please, can you guys help me out?

 

What specific rules does the army lose if I play it as a Successor Chapter?

 

Are the specialist detachments from Vigilus and the like invalid right now?

[jgascoine011]

Vigilus is invalid now

From what I can see, you lose inner circle (makes sense) and jink (apparently successors can’t ride bikes)

[jbaeza94]

Inner circle , jink, and grim resolve are gone if you use successor tactics

 

It limits your choices for a first company detachment quite a bit as well.

 

You lose access to named characters and relics unless you pay the cp tax

[Berzul]

So, Inner Circle, Jink, and Grim Resolve.

 

Nothing else? Does Fire Discipline and the other Super Doctrines work, still?

[WrathOfTheLion]

The Super Doctrines and Strategems are available no matter what choice you make. You lose access to named characters, but retain access to special units, like Deathwing knights.

 

Relics can be requisitioned via a strategem, but cost CP. Special issue wargear is available.

 

Inner Circle and Jink are based on what successor tactic you chose to take. In the Codex, there are a set of abilities that you choose two of to form your tactics. Inner Circle and Jink are lost if you do this. However, there's a special tactic called 'Inheritors of the Primarch', which copies the chapter tactic of your first founding chapter, in this case the Dark Angels. If you pick this, then you will get Jink/Inner Circle.

[Gederas]

The Super Doctrines and Strategems are available no matter what choice you make. You lose access to named characters, but retain access to special units, like Deathwing knights.

 

Relics can be requisitioned via a strategem, but cost CP. Special issue wargear is available.

 

Inner Circle and Jink are based on what successor tactic you chose to take. In the Codex, there are a set of abilities that you choose two of to form your tactics. Inner Circle and Jink are lost if you do this. However, there's a special tactic called 'Inheritors of the Primarch', which copies the chapter tactic of your first founding chapter, in this case the Dark Angels. If you pick this, then you will get Jink/Inner Circle.

This

 

If you want custom successor tactics, you DON'T get Jink or Inner Circle, but get access to the Stratagems and Superdoctrines (for being a Dark Angels successor) and it costs a command point to get any of the Dark Angels relics if you're a successor of any kind

[Berzul]

 

The Super Doctrines and Strategems are available no matter what choice you make. You lose access to named characters, but retain access to special units, like Deathwing knights.

 

Relics can be requisitioned via a strategem, but cost CP. Special issue wargear is available.

 

Inner Circle and Jink are based on what successor tactic you chose to take. In the Codex, there are a set of abilities that you choose two of to form your tactics. Inner Circle and Jink are lost if you do this. However, there's a special tactic called 'Inheritors of the Primarch', which copies the chapter tactic of your first founding chapter, in this case the Dark Angels. If you pick this, then you will get Jink/Inner Circle.

This

 

If you want custom successor tactics, you DON'T get Jink or Inner Circle, but get access to the Stratagems and Superdoctrines (for being a Dark Angels successor) and it costs a command point to get any of the Dark Angels relics if you're a successor of any kind

 

 

You also lose Grim Resolve, right?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Grim Resolve is the chapter tactic of the Dark Angels. If you do not choose it via Inheritors of the Primarch and you elect to take a different Chapter Tactic, then of course do not get Grim Resolve.

[jbaeza94]

IMO, you should never take inheritors of the primarch, but rather just play different colored dark angels (or other legion). It’s an unnecessary tax with no gain whatsoever

[Berzul]

Yeah, makes sense.

 

I have been thinking about starting to play my chapter per the successor rules. Now that they work better than in the previous edition. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Berzul

[Gederas]

Yeah, makes sense.

 

I have been thinking about starting to play my chapter per the successor rules. Now that they work better than in the previous edition. 

Yeah, the biggest issue now with using the custom successor rules for a Dark Angels successor is that it's such a big loss you might as well be just playing Codex: Space Marines without the Dark Angels supplement as Inner Circle and Jink are very important to our specific units (the latter more so than the former, as while only being wounded on a 4, 5 or 6+ is well and good, the invuln on bikes and speeders is a major thing) to the point that losing them is near-crippling if you want to play them like how Dark Angels play normally

 

All of this is in my opinion btw

[jgascoine011]

 

Yeah, makes sense.

 

I have been thinking about starting to play my chapter per the successor rules. Now that they work better than in the previous edition. 

Yeah, the biggest issue now with using the custom successor rules for a Dark Angels successor is that it's such a big loss you might as well be just playing Codex: Space Marines without the Dark Angels supplement as Inner Circle and Jink are very important to our specific units (the latter more so than the former, as while only being wounded on a 4, 5 or 6+ is well and good, the invuln on bikes and speeders is a major thing) to the point that losing them is near-crippling if you want to play them like how Dark Angels play normally

 

All of this is in my opinion btw

 

Yea dont go successor if you want to play dark angles as their units lose the abilities that make them decent

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

Yeah, makes sense.

 

I have been thinking about starting to play my chapter per the successor rules. Now that they work better than in the previous edition. 

Yeah, the biggest issue now with using the custom successor rules for a Dark Angels successor is that it's such a big loss you might as well be just playing Codex: Space Marines without the Dark Angels supplement as Inner Circle and Jink are very important to our specific units (the latter more so than the former, as while only being wounded on a 4, 5 or 6+ is well and good, the invuln on bikes and speeders is a major thing) to the point that losing them is near-crippling if you want to play them like how Dark Angels play normally

 

All of this is in my opinion btw

 

This is exactly the way it should be though. You should be losing out by doing that. Otherwise, you could do custom successor tactics and shop for the best datasheets.

[ValourousHeart]

Just clarifying what is lost.

 

I understand that units from Codex Space Marine that gain the Deathwing and Ravenwing keywords if part of a Dark Angels chapter, do not gain inner circle and jink unless they also have the Dark Angels chapter tactic.

 

But do units from the Dark Angles supplement with jink and inner circle on their data sheets also loose these abilities if you are playing a successor chapter with a different chapter tactic?

[Gederas]

Just clarifying what is lost.

 

I understand that units from Codex Space Marine that gain the Deathwing and Ravenwing keywords if part of a Dark Angels chapter, do not gain inner circle and jink unless they also have the Dark Angels chapter tactic.

 

But do units from the Dark Angles supplement with jink and inner circle on their data sheets also loose these abilities if you are playing a successor chapter with a different chapter tactic?

Yup. You don't get Inner Circle or Jink at all if you're playing a Successor Chapter that doesn't have Grim Resolve through Inheritors

[WrathOfTheLion]

Just clarifying what is lost.

 

I understand that units from Codex Space Marine that gain the Deathwing and Ravenwing keywords if part of a Dark Angels chapter, do not gain inner circle and jink unless they also have the Dark Angels chapter tactic.

 

But do units from the Dark Angles supplement with jink and inner circle on their data sheets also loose these abilities if you are playing a successor chapter with a different chapter tactic?

You understand incorrectly. Those units do gain Inner Circle and Jink as abilities, but the rules as worded as so they do nothing if you do not take Inheritors of the Primarch.

 

So if I play a successor taking a custom tactic

* my bike squad has the ravenwing keyword

* it thus gains jink

* since I do not have Inheritors of the Primarch, no clause in Jink is active and the abilities are no-ops

 

So for Ravenwing Black Knights, they would have Jink, but the effects of Jink are conditional, and thus the ability itself is meaningless.

 

Functionally, this means you need Inheritors of the Primarch to gain these abilities, but that is not quite true. In reality, you always gain the abilities, but need inheritors of the primarch for any effects to take place.

Edited February 7, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Iron Lord]

I'd agree that DA Successor without Inheritors of the Primarch is pretty suboptimal. The main reasons for doing so might be fluff reasons - the player for example subscribes to "Star Phantoms are a DA successor" but also sees them as not taking after their progenitor very much.