Craftworld Eldar still fun?

[Xenith]

Basically the title - are you still having fun with your Eldar?

 

I basically spent 5th - 8th playing my Blood Angels, and with al the Primaris, I think I'm marine'd out. I'm looking at giving my Nids and Eldar some table time.

 

My question is, are Eldar still decent to play?

 

A scan of the codex makes them look strong with lots of options, though not the broken levels of powerful they were in 6th ed. I played 2 games with that codex and never used it again. They were massacres for the Eldar and just un-fun for me, and probably my opponent. 

 

I lament the loss of move-shoot-move, but it was maybe too good. Now basic troops can advance and shoot at full effectiveness, we're super mobile, and have some tough troops in Wraith stuff.

 

How are you finding 9th so far? What works, and what doesnt?

 

 

[Karhedron]

I played Eldar a fair bit in 8th and we were definitely a high-tier army, even without resorting to shenanigans like Ynnari soup. However armies mainly focussed on min Troops just to generate CPs and then lots of mobile firepower to mow down the enemy.

 

9th has changed the playing field for us to some extent. Negative to-Hit modifiers are now capped at -1 so the Alaitoc Airforce is not quite as untouchable as it once was. Our vehicles can no longer use FLY to withdraw from combat and still shoot so the "moving castle" lists I favoured in 8th are a lot weaker now. Lastly, 9th's focus on Objectives makes life an uphill struggle for us as our fragile Troops are blown off Objectives very easily.

 

I haven't tried a game of 9th with my Eldar yet (I only got a couple of games in before lockdown kicked in). I have tried looking at army lists but I cannot see any obvious winning combos yet. Units of Wraithblades with axes and shields look promising for holding objectives but lack ObjSec. It is telling that Marines now have Troop units who are almost as durable as Wraithguard. Offensively we are still a strong army but I have not worked out how to translate that into performing well in 9th yet.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Karhedron

[The Yncarne]

It is a uphill battle in my experience with 9th. You pretty much need the wraith blades with shields to camp objectives. They need a lot of CP and psychic support. ObSec units just don't have the durability to take and hold any objective long enough to score. Harlequins mitigate this by having large number of attacks and a 4++.

 

Your experience may differ. There's many units I don't play.

[Xenith]

Thanks both! 

 

I can see it being tricky with Eldar being so squishy and needing to stay on a primary objective through your opponent's turn - unsure how to deal with this.

 

My old army was pretty much the 4th ed flying circus, avengers, dragons and such in transports and falcons. I'd probably go with the same here. I was thinking prisms and weavers could hold backfield objectives while other stuff goes out to contest. A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

[Karhedron]

A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

Unfortunately not. Units can only embark on a Transport during the movement phase. Abilities that grant out-of-sequence movement cannot be used to Embark on a Transport unless the ability specifically allows that.

[Rebel_40k]

Hopefully we've only got a few more months of the 8th edition codex anyway. I can see Eldar being updated in 2021, just not sure when!

 

And pleeeasssse a new model kit or two. Just a plastic autarch skyrunner and plastic shining spears pleeeeeease! Haha. 

[The Yncarne]

I suspect the Dark Kin will be better in 9th than Craftworlds because of their ObSec units' various abilities. That said, I'd almost prefer to wait until 2022 if that means an army revamp ala Necrons with new designs and a new approach to internal options/balance. I've got decades of models that aren't the draw they used to be. :)

[Mordas]

think its too early to speculate on changes for ourselves but the Drukhari codex may give us a good indication.

 

I mainly play against marines so found us to really struggle to hold onto objectives without just sitting in Serpents all the time.

[Xenith]

 

A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

Unfortunately not. Units can only embark on a Transport during the movement phase. Abilities that grant out-of-sequence movement cannot be used to Embark on a Transport unless the ability specifically allows that.

 

 

I might be thinking of Harlequins or something then - sure I seen it in a Bat Rep.

 

Looks like it'll be 5th ed style jump out and shoot. Serpent shold be enough to block any obsec from getting within 3" of an objective, and there's a craftworld ability that lets me reroll 1s when jumping out of a transport, I recall. What I love is the Warp Spider exarch power of the 6" move at the end of the Fight phase, unless it's been FAQ'd to be like the other Withdraw abilities. That could be powerful, despite how weak spiders look right now. 

I guess, circling back to the original question, are you having fun with them, despite difficulties in scoring objectives?

 

Edit:

 

Just checked and it was FAQ'd 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Xenith

[TrawlingCleaner]

I managed to get 5 games of 9th with CWE in between Lockdowns and they were great fun. I only realy build lists around units that I think are cool or I like their rules, even when playing against Marines I didn't feel like I couldn't win games.

While troops are vey flimsy, Wave Serpents are handsdown the best Transport in the game which can be used to protect Troops and HQs. In the games I played: Orks, Guard and Marines, I didn't stuggle with objectives mainly because I had enough scarier units that my troops were safe. Wraithblades, Wraithlords, Banshees and Wave Sepents were my go to spounge/ distraction units

 

Obvioulsy, mileage may differ depending on your local meta of course

[Doghouse]

Eldar are one of those armies I am patiently waiting to get new models. If they were to get updated Striking Scorpions or other Aspect Warriors my resolve would crumble and I'd start a small army. I keep looking at Wraithguard with a longing gaze.

 

Right now, from the battle reports I've seen Harlequins are doing very well and people seem to use a lot of Wave Serpents in regular craftworld armies.

[Xenith]

Eldar are one of those armies I am patiently waiting to get new models.

 

There's the thing, I love how they are already, old models and all. I almost have a full squad of every generation of aspects from RT onwards. Love them. It'll also be funny beating people with models older than them. Naturally, when they release plstic aspects (plaspect warriors?) I'll add more!

[MasterAO]

 

A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

Unfortunately not. Units can only embark on a Transport during the movement phase. Abilities that grant out-of-sequence movement cannot be used to Embark on a Transport unless the ability specifically allows that.

 

 

 

That isn't true, in 9th you can do that now. This was mentioned in the latest core book faq, on page 2 left column: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/UCwQJcYgHo0Gztjk.pdf

[Xenith]

 

 

A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

Unfortunately not.

 

That isn't true, in 9th you can do that now. 

 

Yessss! 

My Cegorach, that combined with the reroll 1's when disembaring craftword trait is going to be horrible. Shame we can still only disembark before the transport moves. 

 

Might be tricky for short ranged units, but a unit of 10 reapers with a backfield serpent can start embarked, disembark, hitting on 2's rerolling 1's, then fire and fade back into it to stay safe. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Xenith

[Karhedron]

 

 

A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

Unfortunately not. Units can only embark on a Transport during the movement phase. Abilities that grant out-of-sequence movement cannot be used to Embark on a Transport unless the ability specifically allows that.

 

That isn't true, in 9th you can do that now. This was mentioned in the latest core book faq, on page 2 left column: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/UCwQJcYgHo0Gztjk.pdf

 

Well I'll be a Mon-keigh's uncle!

 

That certainly changes a few things. I suppose the level of lethality in 9th is such that even durable Transports won't last long if the enemy is really determined to crack the shell to get at the nuts inside.

[Rebel_40k]

 

 

 

A unit of 10 fire dragons can still jump out of a serpent, nuke something, then fire and fade back into it right?

Unfortunately not. Units can only embark on a Transport during the movement phase. Abilities that grant out-of-sequence movement cannot be used to Embark on a Transport unless the ability specifically allows that.

 

That isn't true, in 9th you can do that now. This was mentioned in the latest core book faq, on page 2 left column: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/UCwQJcYgHo0Gztjk.pdf

 

Well I'll be a Mon-keigh's uncle!

 

That certainly changes a few things. I suppose the level of lethality in 9th is such that even durable Transports won't last long if the enemy is really determined to crack the shell to get at the nuts inside.

 

 I think Ulthwé wave serpents should be fairly survivable, -1 dmg to anything d2 or above and 6+ fnp. Hopefully it keeps mine alive anyway! 

[The Yncarne]

Iyanden is good for vehicles too and how I run Eldar in 9th. 7-8 editions as Biel-Tan are but a fond memory. :)

[Mordas]

I managed to get 5 games of 9th with CWE in between Lockdowns and they were great fun. I only realy build lists around units that I think are cool or I like their rules, even when playing against Marines I didn't feel like I couldn't win games.

While troops are vey flimsy, Wave Serpents are handsdown the best Transport in the game which can be used to protect Troops and HQs. In the games I played: Orks, Guard and Marines, I didn't stuggle with objectives mainly because I had enough scarier units that my troops were safe. Wraithblades, Wraithlords, Banshees and Wave Sepents were my go to spounge/ distraction units

 

Obvioulsy, mileage may differ depending on your local meta of course

Out of interest what sort of Marine lists did you come up against?

 

Ever since their 2nd Codex dropped in 8th I have been royally thumped on every occasion.

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

I managed to get 5 games of 9th with CWE in between Lockdowns and they were great fun. I only realy build lists around units that I think are cool or I like their rules, even when playing against Marines I didn't feel like I couldn't win games.

While troops are vey flimsy, Wave Serpents are handsdown the best Transport in the game which can be used to protect Troops and HQs. In the games I played: Orks, Guard and Marines, I didn't stuggle with objectives mainly because I had enough scarier units that my troops were safe. Wraithblades, Wraithlords, Banshees and Wave Sepents were my go to spounge/ distraction units

 

Obvioulsy, mileage may differ depending on your local meta of course

Out of interest what sort of Marine lists did you come up against?

 

Ever since their 2nd Codex dropped in 8th I have been royally thumped on every occasion.

 

I came up against Dark Angels (that weird PDF index thing they had that introduced only wounding Deathwing on 4s) for 3 out of the 5 games at 1000 points. His lists were: Intercessor block, Deathwing Knights, Black Knights, Hellblasters, A Captain and a Chaplain.

I took: Farseer, Warlock, 20 Dire Avengers, 5 Rangers, a Wave serpent, a Fire Prisim and 5 Wraithblades with axes. The Wraithblades saved me so many times, just by sitting in combat and tanking all the damage even without Protect. The Fire Prism had horrible luck and only killed 5 Hellblasters over 4 turns in one of the games, in  a game vs Guard it was dealing 10+ wounds a turn  to vehicles.

The only real downside to the Wraithblades with axes is the -1WS, I hope they get the Deathshroud treatment in that they get 2+ WS base making the swords a very interesting choice.

 

Eldar feel like they're all about making sure you take the fights you want to take and making sure they happen the way you want to. I had a game against Orks and was really struggling to keep stuff alive or manouvre well enough, Da Jump really hems you in

[Karhedron]

I have finally given my Eldar a whirl at 1500 points and I was presently surprised at how effective they were. I was fighting Necrons who seem to be a bit lacklustre in 9th so take this with a pinch of salt but I think we can still hold our own.

 

I ran a Battalion with Autarch Skyrunner, Farseer and Spiritseer. Troops were a squad of Rangers and 2 units of Dire Avengers. Elites were a squad of Wraithblades with axes and shields. Heavies were a Wraithlord and a pair of Fire Prisms. The Avengers and Farseer got a Wave Serpent, as did the Wraithblades and Spiritseer. I didn't bother with extra Relics or WLTs so I started with the full 12 CPs which was a pleasant experience. I took the Expert Crafters and Masters of Concealment Craftworld traits from Blood of the Phoenix.

 

My opponent took a large blob of Immortals and 2 Warrior squads. His HQs were a CCB, Lord and Plasmancer. For Elites he had Praetorians and a Triarch Stalker with Heat Ray. He also had some Destroyers, Wraiths and a Spyder to keep the CCB and Stalker running. His Dynasty was Mephrit.

 

The mission was Battle Lines which has 24" deep DZs on the short table edges with 24" between them. 1 Home Objective in each DZ and 2 in no-man's land. My opponent won the rolls to choose DZ and go first but as the terrain was fairly evenly distributed, it worked out fine. I deployed my Rangers on my Home Objective with the Fire Prisms hanging back on each flank. Each flank also had a strike force to go for the Objectives. One flank had the Avengers and Farseer in a Serpent supported by the Wraithlord. The other had the Wraithblades and Spiritseer in Serpent. The Autarch was positioned centrally to buff as many units as possible and nip into combat if necessary to bail units out.

 

The battle was surprisingly easy. My opponent moved forward cautiously on his T1 and didn't reach the Objectives. This allowed me to zoom forward and park a Wave Serpent on each one while my Fire Prisms linked fire to destroy the Stalker. In his turn he focused the Destroyers on the Serpent with the Farseer but I used Lightning Fast Reflexes for a -1 to Hit. Conbmined with counting as light cover from the craftwork trait, it survived with only light damage. After that it was pretty much game over for my opponent as he never managed to get near the Objectives while I steadily ground into his army. MVPs were probably the Wraithlblades who chewed through 10 Immortals, 10 Warriors and 5 Triarch Praetorians. There was only a single Wraithblade left by the end of the battle but they tanked the pain and dished out plenty in return. The Wraithlord also did well stomping the other Warrior squad, the Lord and the Wraiths. The final Score was Eldar - 97, Necrons 30.

 

In my opponent's defense, he made a couple of key mistakes. He kept his Wraiths in place one turn too long to trying to anticipate a charge from my Wraithlord. But my Wraithblades were already chewing through his flank and the Wraiths were probably the only unit he had that could have stopped them in their tracks.

 

The Eldar did really well. Linked Fire Prisms are still solid, probably even more so now that they can move and shoot without penalty and get Blast. Wraith units and Wave Serpents seem to be crucial for contesting Objectives as they have the durability to hold them and the speed (in the case of the Wave Serpents) to take them.

 

Our Troops are underwhelming but they are cheap, screen our characters and fill the Battalion tax. I don't think they can hold their own against Troops from a lot of other armies but Eldar have the speed to box the enemy in to some extent meaning that it never becomes a a straight bunfight between our Troops and theirs. How this would work against faster opponents like Orks or Drukhari I am not sure but I suspect they would give us a tougher fight.

[Karhedron]

Expert Crafters is a great Trait for Eldar and is almost a must-take. I am not so certain about Masters of Concealment or the Alaitoc trait. Defensively they are still good but a lot of the action in 9th edition takes place in centre ground by fighting over objectives. This means that defensive traits that only work over >12" are significantly weakened.

 

I am tempted to try Hail of Doom which gives all Shuriken weapons an extra point of AP within 12".

[Mordas]

Nice, hit modifiers though are capped at +/- 1 though.

 

As a Necron player as well his list wasn't anything highly optimised and as you say they are suffering from power creep in 9th. Your list is pretty nice and should hold up against a few of the new armies if you play it well.

 

I fully agree with Expert Crafters as well and it was all I was taking before 9th (not played Eldar in 9th yet...)

[Dr. Clock]

Yes - still fun.

 

I've only run them once in 9th, but the Wave Serpent and Ulthwé Guardian bomb worked quite well indeed vs. Sisters + Deathwatch (not a very competitive list, but hey):

 

Eldrad

2x Windrunner Warlock (Conceal + Jinx)

 

20 Guardians (starcannon) - Webway Strike

10 Avengers (Eldrad goes here)

5 Avengers

 

5 Dragons

2x5 Scorpions (ROD + EaF caddies)

 

5 Spiders (same)

1 Hornet (pulse lasers)

5 scatter laser windriders (keep them at max range)

 

5 Reapers (Strat Reserve)

Falcon (5 DA)

Fire Prism

 

2 Wave Serpents

 

In fact, they were so fun that I hope they really change the basic 'bones' of the Codex. Scatter lasers, Dragons, Spiders and Scorpions all need a rules refresh, but are still worth taking a few of for what they bring. Basically small damage upticks on all of those would put me in a happy place. Also make Fortune a re-roll again ; )

 

I was not aware of the Lightning Fast into transports... think I may load the Reapers in the Falcon on that score, and the 5 DA that usually go there can just hide out of sight to screen Deepstrike (Deathwatch ended finding a place to pin drop in the middle of my DZ in turn 3).

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Xenith]

All good news! Painted up a couple more aspect warriors over the weekend, really tempting to get the Eldar on the table, but focussing on my Thousand Sons at the moment.