White Scars vs. Death Guard Tactics

[TheNewman]

Congrats on killing Morty, even if you lost the battle it’s a mighty trophy for your khan to banish a deamon primarch.

 

What list were you running at the tournament?

Oh it was bad. Totally off-meta. And as wonky as this list looks I do far better with lists like this than I do with anything close to a "proper" White Scars list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - White Scars) [102 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: White Scars

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Khan on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 110pts]: Chogorian Storm, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Wrath of the Heavens

 

Librarian in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 135pts]: 2) Might of Heroes, 3) Null Zone (Aura), 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura), Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Force stave, Psychic Mastery, Storm bolter, The Hunter's Eye, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Heavy Intercessor Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Executor bolt rifle, Executor heavy bolter

. 4x Heavy Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Heavy Intercessor Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

 

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts]: Multi-melta

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 155pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Bike Squad [11 PL, 185pts]

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Biker Sergeant: Lightning Claw

. 3x Space Marine Biker w/Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Twin boltgun

 

Land Speeder Tornadoes [8 PL, 180pts]

. Land Speeder Tornado: Assault cannon, Multi-melta

. Land Speeder Tornado: Assault cannon, Multi-melta

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Las Fusil

. Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine

. 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

 

Gladiator Reaper [12 PL, 225pts]: Auto Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

++ Total: [102 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

Edited October 29, 2021 by TheNewman

[WatchCaptainNavar]

So many dreadnoughts, I see you’re a Kahn of culture:)

 

You’ve got an awesome amount of fast fire power there, is the problem having enough obsec troops and infantry to carry out actions to keep up with your opponents point scoring as the game goes on?

 

Also how are you finding the gladiator reaper as suddenly it seems to be having it’s praises sung with all its dakka.

[TheNewman]

Nah, the problem is putting anything on a mid-field objective and not having it evaporate. ObSec doesn't matter if you're dead.

 

I'm contemplating taking fewer troops to make room for some Bladeguard and/or Storm Shield Company Vets.

 

I've been pleasantly surprised by both the Reaper and the Valiant. They're a lot of firepower in a relatively fast package, but not so fast that they outrun the Libby and his area shield. The Reaper in particular has that extra bit of reach to keep it safe, and using Hunter's Fusilade to bump every gun on the thing to AP 2 catches people out sometimes.

Edited October 29, 2021 by TheNewman

[WatchCaptainNavar]

I don’t think you could drop a troops unit for another elite, as that would push you into 2 patrol detachments which are capped at 2 elites choices so 4 in total, which are all taken by the dreadnoughts.

You could drop one of the first born dreads for a 4 man unit of blade guard in your current force.

 

Trying to theory craft it out a bit if I was opposite you with death guard, you make target priorities for DGs limited amount of anti tank weapons difficult as you’ve got so much and varied armour, but for anti infantry weapons all my bolters and combi bolters really only have your troops and bikes before I’m trying to plink wounds on vehicles.

Plus with all your heavy onslaught cannons its probably going to be very hard to hide my troops from from them due to there mobility, so I may as well dive on to the objectives and play the mission rather than fight it out and as you said there’s not much staying power in your current troops options.

 

My temptation with your list could be broken down into 2 parts-

 

1- find 200pts for 2x five man intercessor squads with auto bolters and a chain sword on the sgt in addition your current troops as you have a bit more objective grabbing / secondary scoring as you can play on the white scar chapter tactics thanks to the assault bolters.

 

2- find a further 180pts for a 5 man blade guard squad, as you said they’re quite the beat stick unit of the moment.

[TheNewman]

I don’t think you could drop a troops unit for another elite, as that would push you into 2 patrol detachments which are capped at 2 elites choices so 4 in total, which are all taken by the dreadnoughts.

You could drop one of the first born dreads for a 4 man unit of blade guard in your current force.

 

My list fits comfortably into a Vanguard detachment, I could easily cut my Troops to two squads of ABR Intercessors to clear the points for a Bladeguard squad and it would cost only one more CP than two Patrols.

 

But I don't think it would actually help.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

Oh yeah, I haven’t used a vanguard, outrider or heavy support detachments since 8th so had largely forgotten about them.

 

So is it a case with your games that the shooting carrys the first couple of turns but as your opponent starts taking out the vehicles or locking them in combat so they can’t take on optimal targets you start to run out of steam in your own scoring? So essentially you need the dice gods to bless you with a good shooting phase or two.

[TheNewman]

Oh yeah, I haven’t used a vanguard, outrider or heavy support detachments since 8th so had largely forgotten about them.

 

So is it a case with your games that the shooting carrys the first couple of turns but as your opponent starts taking out the vehicles or locking them in combat so they can’t take on optimal targets you start to run out of steam in your own scoring? So essentially you need the dice gods to bless you with a good shooting phase or two.

Something along those lines. More "if I don't have a couple of good shooting phases in a row then my forward infantry and bikes get wiped out and I start losing out badly on Primaries", but the principle is the same.

[Prot]

It’s funny you like those tanks. I just literally played them both in my ultras last night and swore they were coming out. I used the techmarine to help them but just came to the conclusion the dreads of any type are just that much better and the rest of the firepower comes from elsewhere… u still love Eradicators in encirclement. 
 

how are you finding the Eliminators?

 

also I will say vanguard vets are darn good even in limited numbers as are Bladeguard. 

[TheNewman]

It’s funny you like those tanks. I just literally played them both in my ultras last night and swore they were coming out. I used the techmarine to help them but just came to the conclusion the dreads of any type are just that much better and the rest of the firepower comes from elsewhere… u still love Eradicators in encirclement.

 

how are you finding the Eliminators?

 

also I will say vanguard vets are darn good even in limited numbers as are Bladeguard.

The Eliminators are in the list because they're inexpensive and they can camp an objective while doing the cheap shoot-and-scoot. They do tend to survive a long time, if only because they aren't a very high priority target.

[Prot]

Cool. That’s what I thought but they may have an impact in those games where they hit soft characters. At the same time I do like the models. 

[TheNewman]

Cool. That’s what I thought but they may have an impact in those games where they hit soft characters. At the same time I do like the models.

...the Eliminators in my list are armed with Lasfusilles. Everyone who can take Bodyguards does so to cope with the strong AdMech snipers, so I don't even bother with the sniper layout. They're just a few more random AT shots for me.

[Prot]

 

Cool. That’s what I thought but they may have an impact in those games where they hit soft characters. At the same time I do like the models.

...the Eliminators in my list are armed with Lasfusilles. Everyone who can take Bodyguards does so to cope with the strong AdMech snipers, so I don't even bother with the sniper layout. They're just a few more random AT shots for me.

 

 

Ah okay. Personally in my area we are playing pretty high quality terrain tables. Snipers' effectiveness is greatly reduced at this time since they will have a narrow valley of opportunity and it can largely be negated by smaller characters, etc.

 

Back on the topic, I am building a list right now that is using more bladeguard, and more Impulsors. I keep seeing the Wolves lists that are doing well with that idea in the competitive meta, and I'm trying to find a way to incorporate speed, and do real damage to the DG type of opponent (elite, and hard hitting) But it probably won't work.... I feel like at this time the WS need mortal wound production. 

 

And on that note I've been pulling my Psyker from my WS because while they have immense utility powers, and a darn good mortal wound target power, it's just too risky for facing the TS and GK. I may put him back in though since I miss that range of powers and some MW output.

[Guest]

I’m trying a different approach vs DG next game. I’ll skip focus on assault and instead focus on the fast moving shooty units, I’ll even add a unit of suppressors for some deepstriking auto-cannon shooting, hellblasters and dreadnoughts :)

[XeonDragon]

Assault hellblasters are one of the best anti-DG units arounds. Don't even overcharge, just fire normally :)

[Sgt.Sangha]

Assault hellblasters are bomb and use suppressors to hit dg terminators with flammers prior to charging them...takes away their overwatch

[Prot]

I see this has picked up again... .which is still a major nemesis of my White Scars.

 

Interestingly enough I wanted to do a post on White Scars post Balance Update, but specific to this, the DG just got notably scarier with Blightlords (I always face 10 of them from multiple opponents it seems). Blightlords now have ignore AP upgrade, on top of ObSec. Wow.

 

I think Hellbasters are definitely a decent option with the AP though. I just prefer the Melta toting Eradictors in encirclement. I still hat being 'weaker' when within 6-9" (depending on the turn) and all those deadly flamers they carry, plus negating our +1 Damage. I'm steering more towards speed with bikers with the new rule, them ... and Chainfist termies.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I kind of like the leviathan dread with dual grav bombards. It got a lot more durable with the new dataslate.

[Prot]

I kind of like the leviathan dread with dual grav bombards. It got a lot more durable with the new dataslate.

 

I can't believe you mentioned this. I was literally looking at my sad Leviathan in its box, and the Grav Bombard arms I bought with it about a year ago. It's been sitting in the Forgeworld box and I just haven't had the heart to bother with it, but here I was just looking at it thinking.... maybe now it might be worth it?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

I kind of like the leviathan dread with dual grav bombards. It got a lot more durable with the new dataslate.

 

I can't believe you mentioned this. I was literally looking at my sad Leviathan in its box, and the Grav Bombard arms I bought with it about a year ago. It's been sitting in the Forgeworld box and I just haven't had the heart to bother with it, but here I was just looking at it thinking.... maybe now it might be worth it?

 

It's got that juicy 2+ save and WS can fallback and shoot.  Worth a shot imo.  

[Karhedron]

GFBs will hit Plague Marines on a 3+, wound on a 3+ and they will then save on a 5+. Twin GFBs will average 8 shots per turn which will boil down to 2-3 dead Plague Marines per turn.