Melee Black Knights

[L30n1d4s]

I think that Black Knights might be a surprisingly competitive melee unit.

 

 

 

Consider this:

 

 

 

-10 Black Knights with Corvus Hammers

 

-JP Librarian with “Righteous Repugnance” power

 

-Primaris Biker Master of Sanctity with both +1 to Wound Litanies and “Cup of Retribution” Relic

 

-Ravenwing Ancient with Chapter Ancient upgrade and Objective Secured WL Trait

 

-DA “Tactical Appraisal” Stratagem

 

 

 

Taken together, this gives the Black Knights the following:

 

 

 

51 x S5 AP-2 Dmg2 attacks on the charge, with WS2+, +1 to Wound, and full re-rolls to Hit and to Wound

 

 

 

 

 

*Against T4 2W MEQs, this kills an average of 32 Marines

 

*Against T5 3W Death Guard Blightlords (with -1 Dmg), this kills an average of 7-8 Terminators

 

*Against T7 3+ save vehicles, this does an average of 24-25 wounds (so, 2+ Rhinos killed)

 

*Against T8 18W 3+/4++ Mortarion (also with -1 Dmg and 5+++ FNP), this does an average of 12-13 wounds… considering they probably already shot him with 20 x “Weapons of the Dark Age” buffed plasma shots (averaging about 6 wounds inflicted, after all the dust settles), they have a realistic chance of killing him by themselves in a single turn, between melee and shooting.

 

 

 

 

 

On top of all this, you have a mobile, tough, Objective Secured unit that can clear objectives and then take them all game long.

[Brother Ramael]

I think that Black Knights might be a surprisingly competitive melee unit.

 

 

 

Consider this:

 

 

 

-10 Black Knights with Corvus Hammers

 

-JP Librarian with “Righteous Repugnance” power

 

-Primaris Biker Master of Sanctity with both +1 to Wound Litanies and “Cup of Retribution” Relic

 

-Ravenwing Ancient with Chapter Ancient upgrade and Objective Secured WL Trait

 

-DA “Tactical Appraisal” Stratagem

 

 

 

Taken together, this gives the Black Knights the following:

 

 

 

51 x S5 AP-2 Dmg2 attacks on the charge, with WS2+, +1 to Wound, and full re-rolls to Hit and to Wound

 

 

 

 

 

*Against T4 2W MEQs, this kills an average of 32 Marines

 

*Against T5 3W Death Guard Blightlords (with -1 Dmg), this kills an average of 7-8 Terminators

 

*Against T7 3+ save vehicles, this does an average of 24-25 wounds (so, 2+ Rhinos killed)

 

*Against T8 18W 3+/4++ Mortarion (also with -1 Dmg and 5+++ FNP), this does an average of 12-13 wounds… considering they probably already shot him with 20 x “Weapons of the Dark Age” buffed plasma shots (averaging about 6 wounds inflicted, after all the dust settles), they have a realistic chance of killing him by themselves in a single turn, between melee and shooting.

 

 

 

 

 

On top of all this, you have a mobile, tough, Objective Secured unit that can clear objectives and then take them all game long.

It's not that it's bad, it's that with kind of support you have plenty of punchier stuff for the same price or better....

Their point is mobility ( I wouldn't count Objsec since they need Rites of War to get it), for melee brutality I'd look elsewhere

Edited February 11, 2021 by Brother Ramael

[Grand Master Raziel]

Okay, so yes, that generates that result, but you're paying 800ish points to do it. You'd hope anything you invest that many points in will perform.

 

On that note though, I could swear I've been seeing references to a stratagem that allows you to give a relic to a unit commander. Did I imagine that? Assuming I didn't, I've been thinking about using it to give a Mace of Redemption to a Ravenwing Huntsmaster. He can take the power maul you need as the base to upgrade from. That would be pretty hilarious.

[Fierce Bear]

There is marked for command, gives access to Master crafted weapon for Sergeants and Masters...

 

I've always found the BKs combat prowess to be a trap, close combat is a great way to throw away there shooting which is there biggest asset, but with Swift Strike and Intractable to get you out of harm's way I want to think they can be more effective turn 3 onwards...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

800 ish points out of 1850 or 2000 is still a lot. Dure is a choppy unit but "all eggs in one basket" does has some min points.

[Berzul]

I don't think you need to go overboard. Black Knights, even in small numbers, with just their Corvus Hammers, can do a LOT of damage to the right target. They are just not heavy hitters.

[solarisqc]

If the black knight unit is strong enought in melee, it can use Swift strike to good result. If you wipe the engage unit, you can do a normal move, this mean you can do advance and get the 4++ from jinx at the end of your turn after a turn 1 charge for a 23'' move.

 

They can be good in melee with a long reach but they are realy expensive on point and CP to be usefull. Also the -1 ap on corvus hammer is far from reliable and with no way to get invul. save in melee, they have to pick target carefully.

 

I think Black knight are overcost for what they do, i don't understand why theyt don't have the Bodyguard and Command squad. At 45pts each with corvus hammer, they are almost the same price as Plasma inceptor with only 2 plasma shot each vs 2d3 for the Inceptor. If they are stuck in melee they need CP to get out to not lose the firepower they pay for.

 

Intractable is useless for Black knight, they can use Hit-and-run warfare for the same result and only 1 CP.

[Fierce Bear]

[Karhedron]

I think Black knight are overcost for what they do, i don't understand why theyt don't have the Bodyguard and Command squad. At 45pts each with corvus hammer, they are almost the same price as Plasma inceptor with only 2 plasma shot each vs 2d3 for the Inceptor. If they are stuck in melee they need CP to get out to not lose the firepower they pay for.

GW has a habit of overcosting units that are good in both shooting and melee since they forget that you can usually only leverage one or the other in a turn. Once per game you may get to unload both barrels and then follow it up with a glorious charge but that tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Black Knights are not the only unit that really should have the Bodyguard rule and don't. Sanguinary Guard are in the same boat.

[G8Keeper]

 

I think Black knight are overcost for what they do, i don't understand why theyt don't have the Bodyguard and Command squad. At 45pts each with corvus hammer, they are almost the same price as Plasma inceptor with only 2 plasma shot each vs 2d3 for the Inceptor. If they are stuck in melee they need CP to get out to not lose the firepower they pay for.

GW has a habit of overcosting units that are good in both shooting and melee since they forget that you can usually only leverage one or the other in a turn. Once per game you may get to unload both barrels and then follow it up with a glorious charge but that tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Black Knights are not the only unit that really should have the Bodyguard rule and don't. Sanguinary Guard are in the same boat.

 

 

I suspect they don't have it to avoid un-shootable Talonmasters, although I guess you could bodyguard them with a DW Command Squad.

Edited February 12, 2021 by G8Keeper

[RayJ]

I'm betting they (and the SG) don't have the Bodyguard rule because of both squad size and the fact that their fast speed makes them more likely to leave supporting units out of position.