Thoughts on my first ever army list?

[502Somm]

I'm brand new to Warhammer, but recently jumped in the deep end and have bought about 3000 points worth of models. As I'm building and painting I'm also theorycrafting a list so I know what to focus on first (and what extra bits to buy if needed).

 

I've decided to build Deathwatch, and am leaning towards an all infantry list, no Dreads, Armor, or Flyers. From what I've gathered that seems to be the strength of the Deathwatch, their unique infantry options and ability to give OBSEC to models that don't normally have it, and create squads of 5 for models than can usually only be in groups of 3.

 

There are a few local shops I'll be gaming at, but the primary one is currently hosting a competition with the following armies being fielded,

 

2x Grey Knights

Blood Angels

Space Wolves

Imperial Guard

Ad Mech

1000 Sons

Death Guard

Necrons

Orks

 

I don't know if that is helpful in giving a rough idea of the meta or not, hopefully it is.

 

My rough gameplan is as follows,

 

Outriders and Chaplain ride around charging into enemy units, using Beacon to bring in less mobile troops as well. Outriders also grab objectives when possible.

 

Spectrus KT hangs around my deployment area to prevent Deep Strikes and can harass enemies at range.

 

Librarian will deploy midfield and support forward attackers. Intercessors or some DW Vets can group around him to provide cover.

 

Proteus KTs combat squad, Vanguard Vets jump around onto objectives and can harass armor if needed with their Thunder Hammers. DW Vets will take and sit on midfield objectives.

 

Heavy Intercessors will backup who needs it, and Eradicators will focus on AT and other heavy targets.

 

Watch Master, Apothecary, and Champion float and go where needed, Chaplain can ride out and Beacon them in if necessary.

 

My only concern is lack of mobility for my characters. Is the Librarian using Concealed Positions to deploy out and the Beacon Angelis enough to get those buffs out where they need to be? Also, am I missing anything else? Some glaring hole in my strategy or easily exploited weakness to my list?

 

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Deathwatch) [116 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 100pts]: 1. Premorphic Resonance, 2. Fortified With Contempt

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Litany of Hate, The Beacon Angelis

 

Watch Master [7 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: Stratagem: A Vigil Unmatched, Warlord

. 2. Paragon of their Chapter: Ultramarines: Adept of the Codex

. 6. The Ties That Bind (Aura)

 

+ Troops +

 

Fortis Kill Team [16 PL, 350pts]

. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Stalker Bolt Rifle

. 4x Intercessor w/ Stalker Bolt Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Stalker Bolt Rifle

. 5x Outrider: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 5x Twin Bolt rifle

 

Indomitor Kill Team [23 PL, 385pts]

. 3x Eradicator w/ Melta Rifle: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Melta rifle

. Eradicator w/ Multi-melta: Multi-melta

. Heavy Intercessor Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Rifle

. 4x Heavy Intercessor w/ Heavy Bolt RIfle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Rifle

. Inceptor w/ Plasma Exterminators: 2x Plasma Exterminators

 

Proteus Kill Team [18 PL, 265pts]: Jump Packs

. Deathwatch Veteran

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

. Deathwatch Veteran

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Astartes Chainsword

. Watch Sergeant: Combat shield

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

 

Proteus Kill Team [18 PL, 265pts]: Jump Packs

. Deathwatch Veteran

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

. Deathwatch Veteran

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Astartes Chainsword

. Watch Sergeant: Combat shield

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

 

Spectrus Kill Team [15 PL, 244pts]

. 3x Eliminator w/ Bolt Sniper: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Bolt sniper rifle, 3x Camo cloak, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Helix Adept

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

Company Champion [3 PL, 55pts]: Dominus Aegis

 

++ Total: [116 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

Edited February 15, 2021 by 502Somm

[502Somm]

Bump?

[Debauchery101]

I swear to god I thought I replied to this already lol.

 

Anyways key things I would change...

Swap out the vanvets to make a 10 man unit. Running the indomitor kill team is a heavy investment and 1 of the best units, if not the best to serve as the center of your board control.

So to help you should upgrade your Apothecary to a chief as well as get a couple company vets for protection

Upgrade your chaplain as well. The ability guarantee a litany buff is worth it. You'll also want him to be near your indomitor team for the leadership buff and others. He really doesn't need the bike

I feel like your phobos librarian is out of place. I'd think about taking the Bladeguard LT with a shield so he can take the relic shield.

If not him then the Phobos Cpt for more omni scrambler screening

 

For a spectrus team I've had good luck using a full 10 man combat squaded.

1 comms dude if you have the phobos captain

4 snipers

 

1 haywire mine Incursor

4 Infiltrators.

 

When I use them this way I'm usually giving the Phobos captain lord of Deceit. It gives you 3 units of 12 deployment denial bubbles. Then before the game starts you redeploy all 3.

 

For the Vanguard Veterans

Sgt-hvy hammer or relic blade/shield

Vet-hvy hammer

4 Vets-chainswords/shields

2 Vets-dual claws

2 vets-claw and inferno pistol

If you have to/want to combat squad them you can make 2 identical teams. You can also split to make one great for hard targets and 1 to mow down large chaff units.

Always look to them for opportunities to choose a certain doctrine and chapter tactics swap for combo attacks.

 

The fortis team...get rid of it. It's the red headed step kid of the codex. It's very tempting for the 5 obsec bikes but you lose the Intercessors key word.

 

10 man unit of stalker-intercessors is 200 pts and are a surprisingly lethal unit with the combo potentials

5 outriders are tough and can really thrash light units-250 pts

5 vet bikers, 1 multimelta atk bike and sgt with xenoblade-248

You can also kit the vet bikers with good melee weapons.

Both options use the same bases. I've used my outriders, plus an ATV to proxy for Vet Bikers and attack bike

Edited February 16, 2021 by Debauchery101

[Trokair]

Looks alright in general if that is what you want, the only thing that really jumped out at me is the lone plasma inceptor in the Indomitor KT, if you are going for more than three Eradicators why not go to five?

 

At 2000p I personally would want a second anti tank/monster option, just in case someone focuses down the Eradicators on the get go. A Lass/Missile Dread/Ven Dread is my normal fall back here.

 

That said Deb101 suggestion above would be a more extensive rework that also looks alright.

[502Somm]

I swear to god I thought I replied to this already lol.

 

Anyways key things I would change...

Swap out the vanvets to make a 10 man unit. Running the indomitor kill team is a heavy investment and 1 of the best units, if not the best to serve as the center of your board control.

So to help you should upgrade your Apothecary to a chief as well as get a couple company vets for protection

Upgrade your chaplain as well. The ability guarantee a litany buff is worth it. You'll also want him to be near your indomitor team for the leadership buff and others. He really doesn't need the bike

I feel like your phobos librarian is out of place. I'd think about taking the Bladeguard LT with a shield so he can take the relic shield.

If not him then the Phobos Cpt for more omni scrambler screening

 

For a spectrus team I've had good luck using a full 10 man combat squaded.

1 comms dude if you have the phobos captain

4 snipers

 

1 haywire mine Incursor

4 Infiltrators.

 

When I use them this way I'm usually giving the Phobos captain lord of Deceit. It gives you 3 units of 12 deployment denial bubbles. Then before the game starts you redeploy all 3.

 

For the Vanguard Veterans

Sgt-hvy hammer or relic blade/shield

Vet-hvy hammer

4 Vets-chainswords/shields

2 Vets-dual claws

2 vets-claw and inferno pistol

If you have to/want to combat squad them you can make 2 identical teams. You can also split to make one great for hard targets and 1 to mow down large chaff units.

Always look to them for opportunities to choose a certain doctrine and chapter tactics swap for combo attacks.

 

The fortis team...get rid of it. It's the red headed step kid of the codex. It's very tempting for the 5 obsec bikes but you lose the Intercessors key word.

 

10 man unit of stalker-intercessors is 200 pts and are a surprisingly lethal unit with the combo potentials

5 outriders are tough and can really thrash light units-250 pts

5 vet bikers, 1 multimelta atk bike and sgt with xenoblade-248

You can also kit the vet bikers with good melee weapons.

Both options use the same bases. I've used my outriders, plus an ATV to proxy for Vet Bikers and attack bike

Not sure what you mean by swap out Van Vets for a 10 man unit, every unit is 10 man except for the Spectrus KT.

 

The Apothecary already has the upgrade, I dropped the Chaplain's upgrade to save points and because a decent number of people told me it wasn't necessary. I have him on a bike as he carries the Beacon Angelis, so I want him to be able to get out to places quickly and use Beacon to pull in less mobile forces. If that second litany (that's all the upgrade does is get him a 2nd litany, right?) is really worth it I can try to shave the points elsewhere.

 

The disciplines Deathwatch get made me think taking a Librarian was worth it, and I chose Phobos so I could deploy him midfield. As for the relic shield, the Command Champion already has it.

 

No Storm Shields on the Van Vets? Are you not worried about survivability?

 

I thought 5 Obsec bikes were one of the stronger tools we had? Yeah, the Intercessors just become chaff but they'll likely just be sitting on objectives in my back with Stalker Bolt Rifles.

 

I don't have biker models so I'd have to buy those (I'm avoiding proxies) if I wanted to run them.

[502Somm]

Looks alright in general if that is what you want, the only thing that really jumped out at me is the lone plasma inceptor in the Indomitor KT, if you are going for more than three Eradicators why not go to five?

 

At 2000p I personally would want a second anti tank/monster option, just in case someone focuses down the Eradicators on the get go. A Lass/Missile Dread/Ven Dread is my normal fall back here.

 

That said Deb101 suggestion above would be a more extensive rework that also looks alright.

I forget what it is called but there's a strategem that let's the Eradicators with the lone Inceptor fall back and shoot, hence the 4 & 1 versus all 5 Eradicators.

 

I was/am concerned about Anti-Tank, which is why two Vanguard Veterans have hammers. I figure they can fly in and bash on vehicles decently well too.

[Trokair]

Fair enough, I have not had a chance to play since the 9th edition codex and therefore don’t remember the stratagems and such yet.

[Debauchery101]

I had most of my reply written for a couple days I just never hit send. I didn't see your edits.

 

Not sure how to explain any further, swapping out the Vanguard vets part of proteus teams for a full 10 man unit. I also put shields in the squad I suggested.

 

The LT is better for the role than the Chapter champion because when combined with the catechism of fire you're all but guaranteed your melta and plasma shots that hit will wound

 

I stand by my position regarding the Fortis killteam as well as outriders.

With an elite unit army you need to be shrewd on the points efficiency. Outriders offer nothing unique. Theyre great when they charge but if they don't they aren't really special at 50pts each.

[infyrana]

@Debauchery101 - you mean, take the 2x5 Vang Vets from the Proteus KT's and make a single 10x man unit.  What would you do with the Proteus KT's, combine them for a single 10x mMan Vet KT but add some Frags or something, or keep them split 2x5man ?

[502Somm]

I had most of my reply written for a couple days I just never hit send. I didn't see your edits.

 

Not sure how to explain any further, swapping out the Vanguard vets part of proteus teams for a full 10 man unit. I also put shields in the squad I suggested.

 

The LT is better for the role than the Chapter champion because when combined with the catechism of fire you're all but guaranteed your melta and plasma shots that hit will wound

 

I stand by my position regarding the Fortis killteam as well as outriders.

With an elite unit army you need to be shrewd on the points efficiency. Outriders offer nothing unique. Theyre great when they charge but if they don't they aren't really special at 50pts each.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I edited a few times.

 

It wasn't clear before, but your reply and the one below cleared it up some. So turn my two Proteus KTs into 5 man units and run the VVs as their own unit? Why, what benefit is there of that?

 

To run the LT I'd have to either spend CP to run a Patrol or cut a HQ. That is the main reason I went Champion.

 

Outriders are pricy (damn that points increase).... I've already built them so I'll try them out but will start looking into other units to pick up to replace them.

[Debauchery101]

 

I had most of my reply written for a couple days I just never hit send. I didn't see your edits.

 

Not sure how to explain any further, swapping out the Vanguard vets part of proteus teams for a full 10 man unit. I also put shields in the squad I suggested.

 

The LT is better for the role than the Chapter champion because when combined with the catechism of fire you're all but guaranteed your melta and plasma shots that hit will wound

 

I stand by my position regarding the Fortis killteam as well as outriders.

With an elite unit army you need to be shrewd on the points efficiency. Outriders offer nothing unique. Theyre great when they charge but if they don't they aren't really special at 50pts each.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I edited a few times.

 

It wasn't clear before, but your reply and the one below cleared it up some. So turn my two Proteus KTs into 5 man units and run the VVs as their own unit? Why, what benefit is there of that?

 

To run the LT I'd have to either spend CP to run a Patrol or cut a HQ. That is the main reason I went Champion.

 

Outriders are pricy (damn that points increase).... I've already built them so I'll try them out but will start looking into other units to pick up to replace them.

nobody will care if you use outriders as vet bikers. So long as you also don't have other outriders. Pin or mag the power weapons to the riders as well.

 

The champion is a pretty pricey unit just to hold that relic. Especially since he's geared to kill stuff.

The phobos librarian benefits who? If you don't plan to use him for synergy with your phobos units or the obscuration spell line then its a very odd choice.

For 115 you can take a jump pack librarian

Or for 105 you can take a terminator librarian

 

I didn't notice your spectrus was undermanned. Definitely fill it out or scrap it. I'm finding less and less use for eliminators in DW. The Spectrus using a mix of Infiltrators and incursors using mines and comms backed up by an lt is decent.

 

I'd drop the spectrus and outriders.

Use the points to get a 10 man Intercessors with stalkers. Grab some company vets to protect your characters. Use the rest of the points to take bikers and fill up your proteus teams. Hands down it's always good to add in 1 vanvet to a proteus for melta bombs.

 

My advice is purely based on being competitive. Anything less than that I can only advise you how to play your list

Edited February 16, 2021 by Debauchery101

[502Somm]

 

 

I had most of my reply written for a couple days I just never hit send. I didn't see your edits.

 

Not sure how to explain any further, swapping out the Vanguard vets part of proteus teams for a full 10 man unit. I also put shields in the squad I suggested.

 

The LT is better for the role than the Chapter champion because when combined with the catechism of fire you're all but guaranteed your melta and plasma shots that hit will wound

 

I stand by my position regarding the Fortis killteam as well as outriders.

With an elite unit army you need to be shrewd on the points efficiency. Outriders offer nothing unique. Theyre great when they charge but if they don't they aren't really special at 50pts each.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I edited a few times.

 

It wasn't clear before, but your reply and the one below cleared it up some. So turn my two Proteus KTs into 5 man units and run the VVs as their own unit? Why, what benefit is there of that?

 

To run the LT I'd have to either spend CP to run a Patrol or cut a HQ. That is the main reason I went Champion.

 

Outriders are pricy (damn that points increase).... I've already built them so I'll try them out but will start looking into other units to pick up to replace them.

nobody will care if you use outriders as vet bikers. So long as you also don't have other outriders. Pin or mag the power weapons to the riders as well.

 

The champion is a pretty pricey unit just to hold that relic. Especially since he's geared to kill stuff.

The phobos librarian benefits who? If you don't plan to use him for synergy with your phobos units or the obscuration spell line then its a very odd choice.

For 115 you can take a jump pack librarian

Or for 105 you can take a terminator librarian

 

I didn't notice your spectrus was undermanned. Definitely fill it out or scrap it. I'm finding less and less use for eliminators in DW. The Spectrus using a mix of Infiltrators and incursors using mines and comms backed up by an lt is decent.

 

I'd drop the spectrus and outriders.

Use the points to get a 10 man Intercessors with stalkers. Grab some company vets to protect your characters. Use the rest of the points to take bikers and fill up your proteus teams. Hands down it's always good to add in 1 vanvet to a proteus for melta bombs.

 

My advice is purely based on being competitive. Anything less than that I can only advise you how to play your list

Don't Vet Bikers have a smaller base? I figured that'd be an issue.

 

I figured the Champion was the cheapest way to get the Dominus relic on the board, and that he would be killing stuff as well. I figured having him in a charge with VVets and other units would be pretty good as he'd up their survivability, could Heroically intervene opposing charges, etc. So you're saying the cost isn't worth it, go without the relic all together?

 

The Librarian is there to support everyone and smite. I was originally leaning jetpack Librarian but when I posted on Reddit almost everyone said take Phobos. I figured his camo gave him survivability and the concealed positions allowed for him to be deployed out into the field immediately. Happy to swap it back for a jump pack Librarian. I'm currently kitbashing my Librarian and planned on magnetizing his backpack and a jump pack so I will be able to easily swap between the two.

 

The Spectrus is down a man purely to shave points, and because I figured not being able to combat squad them wasn't a huge deal since both Eliminators and Infiltrators were likely to hang back near or in my deployment zone. So Comms over the Helix?

 

I appreciate the advice. I want to have fun and winning is fun, so being competitive is fun haha.

[infyrana]

Jetpack Primaris Phobos Libbie?  That I'd like to see please :)

[Trokair]

Jetpack Primaris Phobos Libbie?  That I'd like to see please

Seconed, though I would recommend fireproof camo cloak.

[502Somm]

Jetpack Primaris Phobos Libbie? That I'd like to see please :)

Not quite. Just a Libbie that can theoretically be any of the above at one time haha.

 

It is still a WIP. I'm going to lose the sword off of the left arm and either put on that pistol or an empty upturned hand with a translucent spell effect in it. I'll put a sword on the right arm. I'm also going to sculpt a green stuff cape, and touch up the psychic hood with green stuff.

 

[Debauchery101]

Comms if you have a phobos lt or captain. I'd take another eliminator over the helix.

[Trokair]

He looks great, nice use of the Judicator body. 

[Debauchery101]

Another decent psyker option that is often ignored is taking an Inquisitor. Currently I think Eisenhorn is the best bang for your buck. He has 2 cast, 2 deny. I love Dominate and castigation.. plus he gets the super daemonhost. 1 cp and 85 points.

[502Somm]

Alright all, here's an updated list. I listened to some feedback from here as well as other sources. I'm keeping the Fortis KT for now to see how it plays out, but I'm going to be careful to really pay attention to how it performs.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Deathwatch) [113 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian [6 PL, 115pts]: 1. Premorphic Resonance, 2. Fortified With Contempt, Bolt pistol, Force sword, Jump Pack

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, The Beacon Angelis

 

Watch Master [7 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: Spear of the First Vigil, Stratagem: A Vigil Unmatched, Warlord

. 2. Paragon of their Chapter: Dark Angels: Brilliant Strategist

. 6. The Ties That Bind (Aura)

 

+ Troops +

 

Fortis Kill Team [16 PL, 350pts]

. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Stalker Bolt Rifle

. 4x Intercessor w/ Stalker Bolt Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Stalker Bolt Rifle

. 5x Outrider: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 5x Twin Bolt rifle

 

Indomitor Kill Team [25 PL, 415pts]: Malleus

. 3x Eradicator w/ Melta Rifle: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Melta rifle

. Eradicator w/ Multi-melta: Multi-melta

. Heavy Intercessor Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Rifle

. 4x Heavy Intercessor w/ Heavy Bolt RIfle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Rifle

. Inceptor w/ Plasma Exterminators: 2x Plasma Exterminators

 

Proteus Kill Team [18 PL, 281pts]: Jump Packs

. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield

. Deathwatch Veteran

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

. Deathwatch Veteran

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Watch Sergeant: Combat shield

. . Deathwatch Boltgun and Power Sword: Power sword

 

Spectrus Kill Team [17 PL, 274pts]

. 4x Eliminator w/ Bolt Sniper: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Bolt sniper rifle, 4x Camo cloak, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Helix Adept

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

Company Champion [4 PL, -1CP, 70pts]: Chapter Command: Chapter Champion, Dominus Aegis, Martial Exemplar, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 135pts]: Heavy plasma cannon, Missile launcher

 

++ Total: [113 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe