Spectrus Teams - adding Primaris (Phobos)

[infyrana]

I had some excellent KT advice for my DW on the Vets'n'Dreads thread, now it's time to go to the dark side and hit up my tiny Primaris collection.  Despite avoiding face painting for a long time, I'm interested in adding Phobos variants to my collection.

 

I'd like to add a Spectrus KT or two to my collection with Infiltrators and Eliminators, is there an ideal way of running these?  Should I include any other Phobos models to make it work as a whole like the awesome Phobos Librarian, Cpt/Lt or Reivers etc?

 

So far I can build a Fortis and Indomitus KT using Conquest ETB stuff, two redemptors, some extra flame-aggressors and a Primaris Chaplain for an easy 1k pts which was originally to add to my DW Vets'n'Dreads collection.

 

However, I'm struggling to find a cost efficient way of buying the Phobos models - the Vanguard box looks good with the added Lt (all ETB?), but the Suppressors seem pointless.  Buying the boxes individually is a lot more expensive due to added options of Incursors, Las-Fusils and spare bits, auction sites are really not much cheaper.  A Vanguard box + Eliminators would be good for 2x 5-Infil / 3-Elim's split - should I do something with the 2 spaces remaining per team and split the teams?  Any advice here would be much appreciated please!

 

Since I'd like to hit up the Phobos aspect of Primaris, I assume I can avoid the contents of the Indomitus box for now?  Sure I'd like to get ahold of it, but I just can't keep up with the latest and greatest, besides I don't know anyone who wants the Necrons.

 

 

TL:DR:  Spectrus Kill Teams and Phobos Primaris - How do you do it in Deathwatch?

[Trokair]

Vanguard Start collecting and 1 Box of Eliminators is what I did.

 

Build 5 ETB Infiltrators to form the basis of the Spectrus Kill Team (make sure to include the helix adept).

 

I then build the multipart Eliminators as Las-fusil, and the ETB Eliminators as per instructions.

 

Then I intend* to use parts from the Eliminators box and two spare ETB Infiltrator bodies to build two more sniper eliminators and the special sergeant boltgun to convert the ETB LT into a Phobos captain (as the eliminator boltgun looks basically the same as the official captain). The remaining three ETB Infiltrators bodies I intended* to convert with the Suppressors so that I have Suppressors standing on a base instead of the awkward flying stand.

 

At this point I could field 1 Kill team with five sniper Elimintators, a squad of 3 separate las Eliminators and three non flying Suppressors and a Captain to babysit the lot. The KT can combat squad if needed.

 

Left over bits would be three Suppressors bodies with flying stands and some infiltrator and eliminator bits.

 

 

If you go just the vanguard box then I would build 7 infiltrators (including the helix adept) and add the three eliminators. The unit can combat squad with the eliminators, the helix adept and as bullet sponge in one half to keep the eliminators alive, and 5 infiltrators in the other to grab an objective.

 

 

*I did not follow this plan as I got some additional stuff of ebay by chance (three more ETB eliminators and 3 ETB intercessors), two ETB eliminator rounded out the five for the kill team and the remaining body became the phobos captain, while the ETB intercessors became the foundation of the grounded Suppressors - so I have the LT and 5 ETB infiltrators left to use as needed.

[infyrana]

 

Oh that's some interesting ways to change things up, thank you! What are your plans for the flying suppressor bodies? Are the Las-fusil variants useful, worth building, or did you build for options and proxy as bolts?

[Trokair]

I have not had a chance to play since the 9th edition codex so don’t know if the Las-fusil are actually worth it, but in 8th edition I found I often struggled for anti tank (I am primaries only (or as close as I can manage, I had to get a Ven Dread for that reason) ). So the opportunity for infiltrating mini lascannons seed like a nice idea, while they are not geared towards heavy tanks, lighter ones, as well as lone character or elite/heavy infantry are theoretically good targets for them.

No idea on the suppressor bodies, as I used the suppressor backpacks on the foot suppressors (due to ammo feed and wanting to show that they have jump pack for the 12” movement), maybe get some firstborn jump packs and build a smash captain, or a unit of budget inceptor with leftover hellblaster plasma bits. Choices choices.

Edit: What I built so far in 9th for my Deathwatch, the Foot Surpressores are standign on the keyboard.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Trokair

[infyrana]

@Trokair  That's quite the collection of bikes there!  I've stayed clear of them, I had some back from 3rd ed I passed on, they just don't do it for me.  It's hard to know what I have to work with for the Suppressors, I don't own any built primaris, only my unbuilt ETB collection I've sat on wondering what to do with it each time I take a look.  I do wonder how they fit to Gravis armour for Eradicator conversion, but might need a bit too much work maybe.  I'll definitely be converting my three Reivers into Eliminators now, just need to get practising with some greenstuff for cloaks and arm sections.

 

 

Update to my thread:

 

So I caved and purchased the Indomitus Lt Bladeguard model - it's a great piece with 'choom' power.  I'm sorely tempted now to grab the 3x BGV's to go with him - just no idea how they would fit into Deathwatch?

 

Anyone any thoughts on running the Phobos Librarian, even if changing up the tactics a bit?

[Debauchery101]

Phobos characters and units are great if you take enough to combo multiple warlord traits, deployment shenanigans, buffs and psychics.

[infyrana]

Phobos characters and units are great if you take enough to combo multiple warlord traits, deployment shenanigans, buffs and psychics.

Not sure then without better understanding if I'd have 'enough' to combo with.  I might stick to just the Vanguard box for now then, convert 2 Reivers to Eliminators for a 5/5 split Spectrus team and look at the other options (like the BGV) for now instead of the Phobos Libbie.

[Debauchery101]

 

 

Phobos characters and units are great if you take enough to combo multiple warlord traits, deployment shenanigans, buffs and psychics.

Not sure then without better understanding if I'd have 'enough' to combo with. I might stick to just the Vanguard box for now then, convert 2 Reivers to Eliminators for a 5/5 split Spectrus team and look at the other options (like the BGV) for now instead of the Phobos Libbie.

in an army of elites, able to minutely customize for any situation...stuff like phobos troops who have zero ability to do that are pretty poor choices for DW

[infyrana]

 

 

Phobos characters and units are great if you take enough to combo multiple warlord traits, deployment shenanigans, buffs and psychics.

Not sure then without better understanding if I'd have 'enough' to combo with. I might stick to just the Vanguard box for now then, convert 2 Reivers to Eliminators for a 5/5 split Spectrus team and look at the other options (like the BGV) for now instead of the Phobos Libbie.

in an army of elites, able to minutely customize for any situation...stuff like phobos troops who have zero ability to do that are pretty poor choices for DW

 

 

I do appreciate the upfront feedback - even if I admit that it's not what I was hoping to hear hehe.  So between Infiltrators, Eliminators and Bladeguards - would I be better off sticking to my DW firstborn Vets'n'Dreads for now and look at another avenue for the Primaris units I like?

[Debauchery101]

 

 

 

 

Phobos characters and units are great if you take enough to combo multiple warlord traits, deployment shenanigans, buffs and psychics.

Not sure then without better understanding if I'd have 'enough' to combo with. I might stick to just the Vanguard box for now then, convert 2 Reivers to Eliminators for a 5/5 split Spectrus team and look at the other options (like the BGV) for now instead of the Phobos Libbie.

in an army of elites, able to minutely customize for any situation...stuff like phobos troops who have zero ability to do that are pretty poor choices for DW

I do appreciate the upfront feedback - even if I admit that it's not what I was hoping to hear hehe. So between Infiltrators, Eliminators and Bladeguards - would I be better off sticking to my DW firstborn Vets'n'Dreads for now and look at another avenue for the Primaris units I like?

there is nothing wrong with Blade Guard Veterans at all. They slap. Saving a few CP for them to swap tactics, pop transhuman they become insanely tough and efficient. They aren't as mobile as some units but you can deep strike them.

 

For the phobos units and what I said is pretty relevant but it's not like you can't work them in effectively. It's just that unless you commit to bringing their whole tool box you're taking up resources from more effective DW tactics.

 

For phobos theyre only good when the characters can use the warlord traits amd psychic powers to play some serious combos. Mostly it's about board control and area denial. Those types of tactics and combos have a learning curve. Also other chapters really use them to much greater effect.

Had they offered SIA to them or not base the phobos kill team on the least used and offensively weak type...they could be better.

Or allow the sgt different variants like the Eliminators SGT with his cover fire.

 

To take just 1 team I would take the 5 infils, 1 mine incursor and 4 snipers. The snipers can camp back with a 12 in deep strike denial bubble. Theyre pretty tough due to camo. But that's still 271 pts. 10 intercessors with stalkers and a fist is 210...they can rapid fire and make way better use of the SIA and Tactic swap strats to kill stuff greatly more expensive than they are

[Trokair]

@Trokair  That's quite the collection of bikes there!  I've stayed clear of them, I had some back from 3rd ed I passed on, they just don't do it for me.

Thanks, I have been meaning to do a bike themed army for many many years, and now I finally have enough bikes to bike themed for smaller games and for larger games I can added them as needed.

 

It's hard to know what I have to work with for the Suppressors, I don't own any built primaris, only my unbuilt ETB collection I've sat on wondering what to do with it each time I take a look.  I do wonder how they fit to Gravis armour for Eradicator conversion, but might need a bit too much work maybe.  I'll definitely be converting my three Reivers into Eliminators now, just need to get practising with some greenstuff for cloaks and arm sections.

I don’t think suppressor will work with a gravis body, I think they will be two wide and because gravis backpacks are different I am not sure how the ammo feed and suppressor backpack will go.

[infyrana]

I don’t think suppressor will work with a gravis body, I think they will be two wide and because gravis backpacks are different I am not sure how the ammo feed and suppressor backpack will go.

I was thinking more like just switching out the weaponry with some MultiMelta's and generic packs then mod the feet a little (ie add the castle' wall devastator look around the boot edge).

 

Hopefully they'll give you some more bike options so you can field the full force in grand glory!

[infyrana]

Righty, minor updates!

 

Had the chance to pick up some cheap Indomitus bits and grabbed some Eradicators and the HQ models to buff out my Primaris, but I've held off buying the Bladeguard as I wanted to find out how big and how many units it's best to run.  I'm looking to run at least a single 5 man BGV unit for my Primaris only Deathwatch list to give a bit more punch, but is there any merit in running a second group even if only 4 models each?  What characters would you support your BGV's with ?

 

Taking onboard what Debauchery101 has said about the killteams, I'll likely run at least one each of the Phobos and Indomitus teams and a full Fortis with Intercessor Stalkers as a base point, then looking to include the Bladeguard unit(s) here instead of the Vets hammer team.  If I need a bit more punch I have the Aggressors and Redemptors I could also include.  If anyone has run something similar or expanded heavily on these killteams together, I would be interested to hear please!

[502Somm]

Righty, minor updates!

 

Had the chance to pick up some cheap Indomitus bits and grabbed some Eradicators and the HQ models to buff out my Primaris, but I've held off buying the Bladeguard as I wanted to find out how big and how many units it's best to run. I'm looking to run at least a single 5 man BGV unit for my Primaris only Deathwatch list to give a bit more punch, but is there any merit in running a second group even if only 4 models each? What characters would you support your BGV's with ?

 

Taking onboard what Debauchery101 has said about the killteams, I'll likely run at least one each of the Phobos and Indomitus teams and a full Fortis with Intercessor Stalkers as a base point, then looking to include the Bladeguard unit(s) here instead of the Vets hammer team. If I need a bit more punch I have the Aggressors and Redemptors I could also include. If anyone has run something similar or expanded heavily on these killteams together, I would be interested to hear please!

I wound up cutting the BGVs from my list. While they're a potent unit, they don't synergize as well with Deathwatch as other units do.

[Debauchery101]

Deathwatch is one of the best marine factions to use Blade Guard Veterans. SW, BA and DA have units that are better than they are.

Ultramarines and Raven Guard will likely end up being the best for them.

 

Choosing them when already Investing into an Indomitor team and units to support it would make these guys take up points you should be spending elsewhere to add in some tools you don't have in your box. But if I don't run indomitor I run a max size squad and March them up the middle

They have pistols with AP-1 or better. DW can choose Assault doctrine and now they have AP-2 pistols they can use in combat and have str 5 ap-4 power swords.

 

One of the key aspects I've tried to convey to people asking for advice with DW is to make singular role units so that when you decide to line up a combo of things like, doctrine choice, switching mission tactics or chapter tactics, using rapid fire and using unit specific strats so that you have a unit that can use those choices and CP to the fullest extent.

Mixed unit kill teams that have different move types mostly nerf your options.

It's why I say vet bikers are better most times to include into killteams to combat squad. They can take the Specialisms, they can nab objectives just as good as outriders and you can arm the sgt with a weapon that can take on greatly tougher targets than out riders

It's why I suggest taking 10 stalker intercessors. When they have a chance to trick dump on something juicy and tough they can kill almost anything with using up to 4 or 5 cp

It's also why I say if you're taking 5 add on VanVets in 2 kill teams...then just make them a 10 man unit. It may end up with you combat squading them in games but you have the option to throw 10 at something. There are a lot of things that easily eat up 5 vanvets regardless of your number of shields.

 

I try to play using a plan to spend cp my 2 best units..my hammers. The rest are redundancy units for camping and distraction/contesting. But if needed to they can take advantage as best as possible the combos available. DW has 80% of everything it needs in killing and obsec in our troops options. Nobody else does. We don't need to play the min max game like others.

4-6 storm shield buffer in vets/proteus protects your tough melee and ranged weapons way better than when they are combat squaded.

 

There are a few instances like vs biker/jet bikers lists ie harlequins, raven guard and orks where combat squading and spreading out is advantageous due to them all having fast and deadly ability to wipe and overkill 5 marines with low risk, while also being able to kill 10 if needed, with a unit mostly likely cheaper...but not with obsec...

DW may not seem like it but it's a finesse faction. I have well over 100 games in and I still keep finding new ways to play and counter more effectively via strategy and list.building

Edited February 22, 2021 by Debauchery101