Unit of the Week: Immortals

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

 

Welcome to the Unit of the Week Series!

 

Each week a different unit will be highlighted for discussion until we have amalgamated a full list of our available options and their relevant tactics as 9th edition evolves. This will include not only matched play, but free play considerations as well as Crusade, as these methods of play are just as relevant and exciting.

 

Please keep in mind this isn't to lament the status of featured units or compare them to others but to try and find their potential for all types of gameplay.

 

This week’s unit is:

 

Immortals

 

As a loose guide, here are some thought-provoking questions to consider and cogitate as we discuss this week's unit(s):

• What unit sizes do you prefer for this unit?
• What are your preferred loadouts?
• Which dynastic code works best with Immortals?
• How do you use this unit in your listbuilding process?
• What are overall strengths and weakness of this unit?
• Which stratagems synergize well with this unit?
• Which specific Crusade benefits best suit this unit?

The floor is yours, honored Nobles and Crypteks!

[01RTB01]

I played immortal heavy back in 5th. At this point, I've dropped immortals in favour of warrior blocks.

 

Am I wrong?...

[Stupidity]

YA, Silver Legion is just fluffier and Guass Reapers let warriors fill the same niche cheaper, if with shorter range. Now that Tesla is more expensive and doesn't combo with MWBD, there is little point in bringing either type of immortal over warriors. The Marine meta doesn't help at all as tesla is just bad vs 3+ saves.

 

That said, I almost always have a unit of 5 to cheaply fill a troop slot so they can use their range to hold a backfield objective. Never more than five though, as I like Tomb blades a lot better as an investment in their weapons. 

[Mr4Minutes]

I don’t have enough to run just immortals, but I want to. Gauss just seems to be the better option now, but I think Tesla with mephrit could be good. Maybe with silent king rerolls?

 

They are the cheaper msu troop choice. So if you want to run destroyer cult or Canoptek themed lists, they save you points for it.

 

I wish they had a cheaper transport option. Maybe Nephrekh to DS them?

[Emicus]

If you want to 'msu troops for a destroyer cult' you could just take a different detachment though, zero troops required.

 

I've got 30 Immortals on the shelf and I can't really make a good case for them versus warriors this codex. I'm sure Tesla will come around again. A surprise WD stratagem for mortal wounds on 6s ala 'lightning arc' and they're in business.

[Karhedron]

5 Immortals are our cheapest Troop option and Gauss blasters have a longer range. 5 with Gauss on your home Objective make a decent camping unit.

[Perry]

5 Immortals are our cheapest Troop option and Gauss blasters have a longer range. 5 with Gauss on your home Objective make a decent camping unit.

This is the way

 

With Guass Blasters preferably due to range and the AP modifier.

 

AP0 Teslas just don't cut it for me.

[Get Thokt]

Would like to give Tesla a try in Mephrit. Though would be better on Tomb Blades since they don't suffer the extra cost

[Bonzi]

I just used 10 Immortals + Veil Lord in a game and it played out fairly well. Away from main lines or Technomancer support the better, range, armor, attacks, and toughness of the Immortals felt more useful. They don't deliver the oneshot punch of veiling a big blob of reaper warriors but they were prefect for taking a flank and harassing backline objective units while my two twenty strong blobs of warriors held the center.

[Miek]

I like them. I only have 5 of them (and a horde of warriors), but still like my Gauss immortals for the reasons stated above (cheaper troop option, resilient MSU, 30" range, easy to hide in ruins at 2+, 2A, etc.).

 

In my (limited) experience, most of the weapons shooting at them are either S4 and thus wound on 5+, or higher S but with multiple (wasted) wounds. Shots fired at them are thus usually rather inefficient, which makes reanimation a bit more common than what one might expect for a MSU.

 

I'll probably get at least 5 more with gauss (I have over 5.5k points of necrons but I usually play 500 or 1000 games).

Edited March 1, 2021 by Miek

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

Personally, I love immortals. They are my second favorite troop choice in all the codex! :P

 

But on a serious note, I like them for their MSU capability and their improved guns. Tesla was ridiculous last edition IMO, and despite being a little less so this edition, remains a powerful tool for spitting out more firepower than they rightfully should. I have four squads in total (one that I can choose from game to game, five with gauss, and ten with tesla) and while i've yet to field all of them at once, as both backline objective sitters and 'neener neener neener, you can't kill me' frontline troops they do quite well in my opinion. Their increased point of Toughness has drastically improved their survivability, as Miek quite rightly points out, aiding in both categories.

 

If it wasn't for the fact that I really like the melee-buff custom dynastic codes, I think any of the codes, custom or canon, that buff close-range shooting are excellent choices for Immortal-heavy armies--Extra AP, extra strength, etc etc. Though if one were more inclined, the code that gives bolter discipline to rapid fire weapons would make for excellent backline support to spit out mass quantities of gauss fire at long range, especially with Healthy Paranoia to give even more range.

[Dread]

My 2 cents. In my recent games my immortals last the whole game where as my warriors just dont. Of coarse these are 25 PL crusade games which could have diffetent results opposed to bigger games.

[Plague _Lord]

I actually have a unit of 10 immortals in every list I make. i  just think they are a solid unit - not great but also not bad. People see a 20man warrior blob and just try to take it out as fast as they can, ignoring the immortals. The extra range also helps against tau and imperial guard that tend to stay farther back.

 

Iet's see the math on durability. All of these numbers are after RP.

I'm taking a premier troop-killer unit -  6 flamer aggressors, bare bones, without buffs.

 

On average said unit kills 6,6 warriors and 3,1 immortals

In cover that's 4,1 warriors dead and 1,5 immortals

 

If the aggressors are salamander with 3 cp start support (max flamer shots and 1+ to wound) then both units die outside of cover

In cover the warriors are still wiped while Immortals lose only 5,3. They need that cover though, otherwise they are wiped.

 

Of course if we take into account buffs from doctrines and the inevitable Lts for wound rerolls then probably both squads are going down but Immortals in cover are still hard to take down in one go. That's 240 points from one of the best troop killers in the game with 3CP and other buffs needed to take out 170points of our troops. Most anti light infantry (that is str4) guns will have major problems with taking out Immortals.

 

That's why I like taking 10ximmortals and 20xwarriors instead of 2x20warriors. The immortals will get ignored and will proceed to get the job done.

[Get Thokt]

I actually have a unit of 10 immortals in every list I make. i just think they are a solid unit - not great but also not bad. People see a 20man warrior blob and just try to take it out as fast as they can, ignoring the immortals. The extra range also helps against tau and imperial guard that tend to stay farther back.

 

Iet's see the math on durability. All of these numbers are after RP.

I'm taking a premier troop-killer unit - 6 flamer aggressors, bare bones, without buffs.

 

On average said unit kills 6,6 warriors and 3,1 immortals

In cover that's 4,1 warriors dead and 1,5 immortals

 

If the aggressors are salamander with 3 cp start support (max flamer shots and 1+ to wound) then both units die outside of cover

In cover the warriors are still wiped while Immortals lose only 5,3. They need that cover though, otherwise they are wiped.

 

Of course if we take into account buffs from doctrines and the inevitable Lts for wound rerolls then probably both squads are going down but Immortals in cover are still hard to take down in one go. That's 240 points from one of the best troop killers in the game with 3CP and other buffs needed to take out 170points of our troops. Most anti light infantry (that is str4) guns will have major problems with taking out Immortals.

 

That's why I like taking 10ximmortals and 20xwarriors instead of 2x20warriors. The immortals will get ignored and will proceed to get the job done.

They are a nice support unit with decent range whilst the Warriors take the front line. I've also been enjoying a 10-man unit behind Warriors.

[Mandragola]

One thing to consider is that the malevolent arcing strat looks fairly useful, situationally at least, so you’ll probably want a source of Tesla in your list. Immortals are one option for this. I think this means there’s a case for giving a backfield camping unit Tesla, since you aren’t really buying them for their guns anyway.

 

Personally I think I’ll usually take the voltaic staff instead.

 

It’s interesting to hear about 10-man units. They are individually far tougher than warriors, so I do see the argument for that approach, in spite of the strength of pure silver tide. That said, if playing against necrons I think I’d target immortals before warriors, not after, and they’d be seriously vulnerable to things like plasmaceptors. It sounds worth a try.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Mandragola

[Arbiter7]

Being new to crons and without any games under my belt yet (bloomin pandemic) I just finished painting 20 Gauss Immortals to complement 20 Reaper Warriors and 20 Flayer Warriors... 

 

From what I read above I might have gone a bit overboard? 

[Mr4Minutes]

Being new to crons and without any games under my belt yet (bloomin pandemic) I just finished painting 20 Gauss Immortals to complement 20 Reaper Warriors and 20 Flayer Warriors...

 

From what I read above I might have gone a bit overboard?

Silver tide is never overboard!

[Plague _Lord]

One thing to consider is that the malevolent arcing strat looks fairly useful, situationally at least, so you’ll probably want a source of Tesla in your list. Immortals are one option for this. I think this means there’s a case for giving a backfield camping unit Tesla, since you aren’t really buying them for their guns anyway.

 

Personally I think I’ll usually take the voltaic staff instead.

 

It’s interesting to hear about 10-man units. They are individually far tougher than warriors, so I do see the argument for that approach, in spite of the strength of pure silver tide. That said, if playing against necrons I think I’d target immortals before warriors, not after, and they’d be seriously vulnerable to things like plasmaceptors. It sounds worth a try.

If plasmaceptors are shhoting at Immortals then they aren't shooting at destroyers and our other killy stuff.

[Karhedron]

From what I read above I might have gone a bit overboard? 

With Necrons, too much is never enough.

[Bonzi]

Being new to crons and without any games under my belt yet (bloomin pandemic) I just finished painting 20 Gauss Immortals to complement 20 Reaper Warriors and 20 Flayer Warriors...

 

From what I read above I might have gone a bit overboard?

Always remember that the game balance swings. I have 15 Tesla Immortals, 15 Gauss Immortals, 20 Reaper Warriors and 20 Flayer Warriors. Tesla may be last place now, but they'll come around again. Warriors may be better than Immortals now, but I'm sure some future meta shift will change things. Always remember the long term when you're worried about building something 'suboptimal' or non-meta. I have Tomb Spiders from years ago that never had a real role on the board until this edition.

[Mandragola]

I think the Pitiless Hunters dynastic tradition could be pretty good with Immortals. It lets you fire rapid fire guns twice at any range if you stand still, and that would give them really serious firepower for their price. It would turn backfield camping units into really quite meaningful shooty squads, which would be awkward to remove.

 

I'm not sure if this is actually the best way to play overall though. There ought to be a lot of LoS-blocking terrain around and obviously you need to move to get objectives. But if you wanted to field a lot of immortals then it's something to consider I think.