Prot's Quickie Batrep: Ultra's vs Death Guard (Pictures)

[Karhedron]

Seems I’m swimming against the current in my opinion on the Master of the Forge. I’ve really enjoyed using him so far, he’s kept the Dreads kicking for far longer than they’d should have. I typically have Tigurius nearby too, so the get a 5++ inv and one could else get MoH. He also manages a fair number of attacks should he get into a scrap too.

I will freely admit I just theory-crafting at this point. Everything has been locked down hard I have not had much practice with the new codex. At least I have been able to carry on painting to preserve my sanity.

[Prot]

I only put the ancient back in my last couple of games. Back when I could use his ability on a three plus, I would have Hellblasters overcharging in death and it made a lot of sense. It did a lot of decent bonus damage.

 

I will pull him out again. I was using him for bonus attacks, as well as the fight from death trick. The extra attacks is quite nice though on a squad of fist toting Aggressors. It’s just situational.

 

I’m shifting to prepare for another DG rematch. The vehicle debate rages on.... I am loathe to just take them out of the list, but the Gladiators (I feel) are making it a little too difficult. I really don’t think the Master of the Forge will make the list. I just think the Chaplain or LT is quite a bit more valuable. 

 

The last time I used the Techmarine, I never got to heal anything. I was playing against SoB and the damage just comes in too heavy. The game before was similar (vs Necrons) where the damage from their new Destroyers is just ridiculous. A lot of armies just have the ability to wipe a vehicle on sight. I even had this problem with twin Repulsor heavy tanks (can’t remember the name.)

 

Eradicators are staying in. I am going to bring back the Ultra Bladeguard to compliment the Victrix guard. Maybe just 3. But it’s enough that a Chaplain or LT will help. I REALLY missed re-rolling 1’s against DG. I mean you wound much less to begin with so those 1’s really stare back at you from the table... lol

 

Still going to keep a Redemptor. Not sure about the heavies though. 

[emperorpants]

I honestly think that high strength and high rate of fire is the way to go against DG. I'm thinking plasma Inceptors (don't overcharge), assault hellblasters out flanked (again, don't overcharge) with the re roll 1s strat, and grav cannon dev squads buffed with +1 to wound from the chaplain are the way to go.

 

With all of these you are going to be wounding on 3s with single damage weapons with high rate of fire, which also have awesome ap. You'll shred DG units with these, even the terminators if you get null zone cast, which is easy with Tiggy. Throw in a redemptor or two as well for melee punch as well as good shooting.

 

Heavy eradicators will also do well in an ultra army, as others have said.

Edited February 22, 2021 by emperorpants

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think I agree on the Ancient discussion, just not enough output from them really. The terminator maybe being the exception, but I don’t own that model I’m afraid. I think that’s why I’ve not used it yet, just other things that do more for the army.

Seems I’m swimming against the current in my opinion on the Master of the Forge. I’ve really enjoyed using him so far, he’s kept the Dreads kicking for far longer than they’d should have. I typically have Tigurius nearby too, so the get a 5++ inv and one could else get MoH. He also manages a fair number of attacks should he get into a scrap too.

I’ve not used the Judiciar yet, what was the nerf to him? He still picks a unit to fight last right?

Are y’all aware there’s a Terminator Ancient?

 

I love rikrolling opponents for the free shots then ressing back a shooter.

 

+1A bubble and fearless are well worth it. These might not be appealing to choppy Marines but they can be game changers.

[psyduck]

I only put the ancient back in my last couple of games. Back when I could use his ability on a three plus, I would have Hellblasters overcharging in death and it made a lot of sense. It did a lot of decent bonus damage.

 

I will pull him out again. I was using him for bonus attacks, as well as the fight from death trick. The extra attacks is quite nice though on a squad of fist toting Aggressors. It’s just situational.

 

I’m shifting to prepare for another DG rematch. The vehicle debate rages on.... I am loathe to just take them out of the list, but the Gladiators (I feel) are making it a little too difficult. I really don’t think the Master of the Forge will make the list. I just think the Chaplain or LT is quite a bit more valuable. 

 

The last time I used the Techmarine, I never got to heal anything. I was playing against SoB and the damage just comes in too heavy. The game before was similar (vs Necrons) where the damage from their new Destroyers is just ridiculous. A lot of armies just have the ability to wipe a vehicle on sight. I even had this problem with twin Repulsor heavy tanks (can’t remember the name.)

 

Eradicators are staying in. I am going to bring back the Ultra Bladeguard to compliment the Victrix guard. Maybe just 3. But it’s enough that a Chaplain or LT will help. I REALLY missed re-rolling 1’s against DG. I mean you wound much less to begin with so those 1’s really stare back at you from the table... lol

 

Still going to keep a Redemptor. Not sure about the heavies though. 

 

Double, even triple redemptors do a lot of work in general, I feel. 

I've been trying out leviathans with grav bombards as well, and they do quite well against DG, having AP3 3D blasts. In addition, I've only just found out recently that Guilliman still grants them rerolls, so gonna try that out.

 

Eradicators will probably always have a home unless they get nerfed - in an era of Mortarion/Inner Circle hopefully that won't be on the cards.

 

In the debate of aggressors, I've just plain switched back to relic terminators. The pain of 2D fists being halved was one experience too traumatic for me.

 

HQs.. I agree that after Auto-Tigurius, probably reroll cpt/lt or chaplains do the most work. Techmarines.. are useful for that +1 on non core like leviathans or vindicators (LD), but can really only keep dreads alive, not the vehicles with no invuls or smokescreens. MoTF upgrade I guess is situational, based on your love/hate for rolling 1d3 (toyed with a hilarious Vox Espiritum Warden of the Ancients for a punchy dread time, but ultimately decided an actual melee focused chapter uses that better).

[NKirkham24]

TO be fair, the games i've played have been against CSM, Slaanesh daemons/CSM & Death Guard, and I think all those army's have lacked a large amount of anti-tank. That's given me the opportunity to heal up the Redemptors, so the MotF has been good for me, but as you've said, in other match-ups maybe not so much. I may have to try without him, don't want to lock him in when he is potentially ineffective against other armies. 

 

HQs are currently Tig, MotF and Indomitus Capt, but i'm going to try Ventris in his place when he arrives. Maybe Chaplain or Lt to replace him in will be something to try. 

 

Prot, let us know how you go in the next game and what works/doesn't work for you. I hope you have good luck with those Bladeguard

[Prot]

Well I got a few games coming this week. 

 

I got a surprise call from a buddy that had some spare time. We did a White Scars vs. UM face off.

 

I had my new UM list ready to roll but I got hammered. I was actually surprised how badly it went. I have to say against a real 'assault' army 3 Bladeguard felt useless. They are nice, but really against a true hand to hand list, they are just a speed bump.

 

This is the first game I lost Calgar in a very long time (might be a first in 9th ed for me!)

 

I used 2 Gladiators, and... yup... I put the Primaris Techmarine back in the list. He got to repair a tank once (it only had one wound). The Gladiator that the WS were concentrating on was nailed in one turn by Multi Melta's. This happens a lot to me... I just can't commit to the Techmarine at this point.

 

The funny thing is the Gladiators did real damage, but just do not last. The WS closed the gap quickly which minimized shooting time. 

 

When I look back at the game, I lost table control as the WS got first turn. Too much invested in the 2 Gladiators. The Reaper was fun as heck though, just too easy to dodge, or take down. The other tank was las/melta and it hit hard but quickly became the primary target and I lost it after one use.

 

I just think against such a competitive WS list, I had to be honest about my list... maybe my tank experiment has to end? I dunno. The Bladeguard have typically been an 'okay' unit but normally I am playing against shootier armies and they work better as a unit that moves forward, takes shots and bullies the opposition at mid table. In this case? Not so good. 

 

I felt like I needed a lot more firepower. I missed the aggressors believe it or not. :) Anyway, back to the drawing board.

[NKirkham24]

Sounds like a pretty brutal one. 

 

I've yet to get a Gladiator, I will get one, but not rushing given their current position. They just don't seem to fit into our army atm which is a shame. 

 

It really sounds like the lack of survivability in our vehicles (bar Redemptors) is meaning your Techmarine is superfluous in this style of list. Like I say i've had a couple of good showings from him paired with 2 Redemptors who can buff each other, but if he's not in that role then he obv struggles. Also seems very dependant on the opponent too. 

 

If you're going back to the drawing board I think must-haves for us are Redemptors, Eradicators, Tigurius & Victrix. You got any new list ideas in mind for your upcoming games?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How was the scar player able to damage your tanks Prot ?

[Prot]

How was the scar player able to damage your tanks Prot ?

 

Multie Melta attack bikers, Redemptor over charged Macroplasma (just brutal with Wisdom of the ancients).

 

 

 

If you're going back to the drawing board I think must-haves for us are Redemptors, Eradicators, Tigurius & Victrix. You got any new list ideas in mind for your upcoming games?

 

Yup, those make up my typical core. I just got bored, and my last month or so (covid permitting) I have been trying new stuff.... 

 

I have been trying to lean away from shooting infantry by using more Bladeguard, more Gladiators, the new Speeders, techmarines, etc. It's cost me a lot of games! I'm going back to a purer infantry list. It's a little... boring for me after playing it so many times, but deviating from it too far is a little too punishing vs top meta lists like SoB, DG, AdMech, etc.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Whenever I play against a tank heavy army my opponent asks “Why are you smiling.”

[Prot]

Absolutely. It might change in the future but right now it just really is something I wanted to try to have fun with. It works with those bottom feeder codexes or codexes with low ranged damage, but that's about it.

[Seahawk]

I feel gladiators do nothing better than a predator does, at a greatly exaggerated cost.

 

Vehicle heavy armies do some work, but only if said vehicles hover around the 100pt mark. Otherwise, it's just not viable right now, especially with Dark Eldar on the horizon.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Seahawk

[Mordas]

I love the look of the gladiators, painted one, and hope to use it soon (covid and lockdown permitting). Seems that your reports have nothing positive to say about them.

 

But considering their current state, how would you suggest getting the most mileage out of them?

[Prot]

Well they really don't get any benefits.. no aura's, rerolls, no cover, nothing... They really are on their own unless you actually want to put the Techmarine in there (which I am not a fan of using). 

 

So really it's Psychic Fortress, and just use their large frames to block out your backfield from deep strikers. That's really about it. Hopefully the T8 holds out for you but man there is melta everywhere now.

[Tokugawa]

Well they really don't get any benefits.. no aura's, rerolls, no cover, nothing... They really are on their own unless you actually want to put the Techmarine in there (which I am not a fan of using).

 

So really it's Psychic Fortress, and just use their large frames to block out your backfield from deep strikers. That's really about it. Hopefully the T8 holds out for you but man there is melta everywhere now.

In 9th, not being Core and infantry means an unit receive little to zero synergy, and need to fight on its very own. I think the raw datasheet quality need to be high, reach the similar level of some staple "standalone"unit(e.g. Death Guard PBC), to make such a unit playable.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Devcents aren’t core but they are still a hard as nails unit.