1st founding melee chapters should have signature CC weapons

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I was just thinking that BA(which I love) specifically do feel a bit bland.

Like sure they have mobility and melee...but so do a lot of chapters.

RG, WS, SW, DA off the top of my head have a lot of overlap.

 

I think each have specific melee weapons they excel with would help make the mobility/melee armies feel a bit more unique.

 

Here's my recommendation

Blood Angels- chainsword (including eviscerators)

Space Wolves- power axe

Raven Guard- lightening claws (particularly dual)

Dark Angels- power maul

White Scars- power sword

 

Either chapter tactics, character auras, stratagems or mixture, that specifically effect those weapons in each army is something I think would have been nice.

[ShibeKing]

Eh... it seems like a cool idea but I'm not really into making the chapters even more hyper specialized by focusing on one single weapon. The moment you start giving auras, strats, buffs, or even chapter tactics for one particular weapon type the value of the other weapons starts going down. This is just my opinion though and my knowledge of the game is pretty limited since I quit, so take this with a grain of salt. 

 

 

 

It also breaks my head canon that the Blood Angels are masters of all melee weapons. Or how the Dark Angels have some of the best Power Swords and Power Mauls. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Eh... it seems like a cool idea but I'm not really into making the chapters even more hyper specialized by focusing on one single weapon. The moment you start giving auras, strats, buffs, or even chapter tactics for one particular weapon type the value of the other weapons starts going down. This is just my opinion though and my knowledge of the game is pretty limited since I quit, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

 

 

It also breaks my head canon that the Blood Angels are masters of all melee weapons. Or how the Dark Angels have some of the best Power Swords and Power Mauls.

You can be an expert in all melee weapons but still have that one type that you specialize in.

[Marshal Loss]

I think Space Marines get enough bonuses thrown on top of their rules as is to not need an additional layer of weapon bonuses. Why do BA for example need chainsword bonuses when they already have a range of unique weapons & relics, or SW needing axe bonuses when they have frost weapons? Plenty of flavour as is.

[Brother Tyler]

And what about all of the other Chapters that might have some proficiency/specialization in melee? The only Chapters that might not have been around long enough to develop some sort of extraordinary skills with some signature weapon are the Ultima Founding Chapters (and that's debatable). The Crimson Fists have been around just as long as any of the so-called "First Founding" Chapters, and they revere power fists.

 

Also, if you do this for the "melee" Chapters, shouldn't you also do this for the "shooty" Chapters?

 

And how does the current status combining Chapter Traits (or Chapter-unique rules such as those with the spiffy 9th edition codex supplements), Warlord Traits, Relics, Stratagems, and in some cases unique units and wargear, not make any of these Chapters "unique" enough? Even those covered in White Dwarf Magazine level codex supplements are "unique" compared to the bare bones generic Space Marine Chapter of Codex: Space Marines through the simple expedient of unique Warlord Traits and Stratagems.

 

I could see some sort of signature weapon Chapter Tactic added to the mix, but the "First Founding" Chapters already have enough to set them apart from each other (and most already have weapons differences).

 

Just my opinion.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

And what about all of the other Chapters that might have some proficiency/specialization in melee? The only Chapters that might not have been around long enough to develop some sort of extraordinary skills with some signature weapon are the Ultima Founding Chapters (and that's debatable). The Crimson Fists have been around just as long as any of the so-called "First Founding" Chapters, and they revere power fists.

 

Also, if you do this for the "melee" Chapters, shouldn't you also do this for the "shooty" Chapters?

 

And how does the current status combining Chapter Traits (or Chapter-unique rules such as those with the spiffy 9th edition codex supplements), Warlord Traits, Relics, Stratagems, and in some cases unique units and wargear, not make any of these Chapters "unique" enough? Even those covered in White Dwarf Magazine level codex supplements are "unique" compared to the bare bones generic Space Marine Chapter of Codex: Space Marines through the simple expedient of unique Warlord Traits and Stratagems.

 

I could see some sort of signature weapon Chapter Tactic added to the mix, but the "First Founding" Chapters already have enough to set them apart from each other (and most already have weapons differences).

 

Just my opinion.

i agree shooty chapters should get signature guns (DA manage to come off as both Edited February 27, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Spinsanity]

Dark Angels- power maul

Uh, I'd say the Dark Angels, if anything, should have Power Swords as their signature weapon waaaay before Power Mauls...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Dark Angels- power maul

Uh, I'd say the Dark Angels, if anything, should have Power Swords as their signature weapon waaaay before Power Mauls...

I say power mauls because of their big fancy mace/incense burner things, are already a signature weapon visibly, and I'm sure they have aunique weapon profile too. Edited February 27, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[jeremy1391]

Some of these chapters have specialized close combat weapons the wolves have their frost weapons, the blood angels have their encarmine blades, and the dark angels have the maces that the deathwing knights use and the Corvus hammers

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Some of these chapters have specialized close combat weapons the wolves have their frost weapons, the blood angels have their encarmine blades, and the dark angels have the maces that the deathwing knights use and the Corvus hammers

encarmine blades are just power weapons with wings on them, and are SG only, as I imagine is a similar thing for the frost weapons, as well as the DA maces...I'm talking about army wide specialty weapons

[Spinsanity]

 

Some of these chapters have specialized close combat weapons the wolves have their frost weapons, the blood angels have their encarmine blades, and the dark angels have the maces that the deathwing knights use and the Corvus hammers

encarmine blades are just power weapons with wings on them, and are SG only, as I imagine is a similar thing for the frost weapons, as well as the DA maces...I'm talking about army wide specialty weapons

So are the DA’s maces, which are restricted to the Deathwing Knights, and yet you figured the DA should be considered masters of the power mayl as a result of this specialist unit’s iconic weapon... Edited February 28, 2021 by Spinsanity

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's a terrible design idea to pigeon hole every successor into a certain weapon. People will tend to gravitate towards the most efficient, which is basically any chapter where you see a lot of the more common weapons. Power axes and mauls just don't exist options for a lot of units, while chainswords, power swords and lightning claws do.

 

The chapters are already very distinct between chapter tactics, doctrines, relics, stratagems and warlord traits. There's a decent amount of overlap, but that's kind of the point when they're all drawing from the same base codex, and even then the flavours are pretty different of how they execute the mobility and get into melee.

 

And you can boil every special unit into their base analogues, doesn't make them less special or have less flavor.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Some of these chapters have specialized close combat weapons the wolves have their frost weapons, the blood angels have their encarmine blades, and the dark angels have the maces that the deathwing knights use and the Corvus hammers

encarmine blades are just power weapons with wings on them, and are SG only, as I imagine is a similar thing for the frost weapons, as well as the DA maces...I'm talking about army wide specialty weapons

So are the DA’s maces, which are restricted to the Deathwing Knights, and yet you figured the DA should be considered masters of the power mayl as a result of this specialist unit’s iconic weapon...

Yes, it could be opened up to the rest of the chapter as an option.

[Brother Tyler]

I'll cut to the chase...

 

I think this is a terrible idea.

 

The First Founding Chapters already have so much that makes each one unique. All this idea does is pretend to make them more distinct, but it really is just an effort to make them better than other Chapters. This is neither necessary nor good. All of these Chapters have things that set them apart from the "average" Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, with a few (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines) having a lot that sets them apart. Just because some Chapters frequently use certain weapons doesn't mean that they need to be better at using those weapons than other Chapters. What justification is there for the Blood Angels being more proficient with their chainswords than the Fire Angels? All that does is pile a bonus on top of their other bonuses - rules for advantage on the tabletop rather than for representation of the lore.

 

GW did a great job of reeling in a lot of the nonsense that started in 3rd edition. They've incorporated a wide range of rules that allow players to make their Chapters distinctive without necessarily having to be "better" than the Joneses. The simple expedient of Chapter Tactics is huge, but being able to choose different Warlord Traits, Stratagems, and Relics, not to mention all of the options with regard to the Crusade rules (for those that are using them), give players ways of representing necessary rules impacts. A lot of the work that players should focus on is showing that Chapters can be different in terms of their character and personality, not needing too many special rules to make them better.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think tying particular weapons to certain chapters really does that much to make them feel more unique. I mean its an easy visual clue, but it also means that space wolf lists will look even more similar to each to other. So I wouldn't want a power axe specialization.  

[MegaVolt87]

There are enough of these in the relic options for SM surely? Expanding it more than that to universal bonuses is a terrible idea. What you actually want is no restrictions on who can take what for primaris characters, eg- why should I have to be a SW to take a power axe, I want one instead of a power sword on my gravis cpt or the new guy only has one heavy bolt rifle option... 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

There are enough of these in the relic options for SM surely? Expanding it more than that to universal bonuses is a terrible idea. What you actually want is no restrictions on who can take what for primaris characters, eg- why should I have to be a SW to take a power axe, I want one instead of a power sword on my gravis cpt or the new guy only has one heavy bolt rifle option...

no one even remotely said those weapons would be limited to those chapters. Just that those chapters would benefit more from using them...

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

There are enough of these in the relic options for SM surely? Expanding it more than that to universal bonuses is a terrible idea. What you actually want is no restrictions on who can take what for primaris characters, eg- why should I have to be a SW to take a power axe, I want one instead of a power sword on my gravis cpt or the new guy only has one heavy bolt rifle option...

no one even remotely said those weapons would be limited to those chapters. Just that those chapters would benefit more from using them...

 

 

1) I think creating a chapter wide bonus does limit your options, the power weapons are fairly well balanced against each other at the moment and if there was a bonus like that I'd put myself at a disadvantage if I didn't take power axes with my space wolves.

 

2) What MegaVolt87 is implying is that because Primaris kits have limited options you only see the same upgrades. His argument is basically if they didn't have those restrictions you would see more variety in what people take. For example the Primaris Wolf guard Battle Leader is the only primaris option for wolves that has a power axe (the Primaris Techmarine axe has its own name which does mention power axe so I guess two). It would be worse for a Primaris RG force as shrike is the only model in the primaris range with lightning claws. Letting characters take more weapons and letting intercessor sergeants have more options would address this.

[WrathOfTheLion]

In HH, this exists to some degree with things like Calibanite Warblades and Terranic Greatswords for DA, for instance. Part of their legion rules is additional weapon skill when using swords.

 

With how 40k is structured now, I don't really see much point to it. One of the things I am actually quite happy with for the DA supplement is that they achieved a ton for Deathwing especially without bloating datasheets. Adding equipment and datasheets for their own sake does not make the faction feel more unique.

Edited March 1, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea, but it's also one of the worst legion rules, straight up.

 

Most legions got special weapons on characters, but none got bonuses for certain weapons in addition to their legion rules and rites and sire of the legion rules.

Edited March 1, 2021 by SkimaskMohawk

[WrathOfTheLion]

I was just noting that the rule existed. I don't think there's enough wargear options in 40k for that to be viable, and needlessly adding wargear and datasheets isn't the right way to go either.

[Xenith]

 

There are enough of these in the relic options for SM surely? Expanding it more than that to universal bonuses is a terrible idea. What you actually want is no restrictions on who can take what for primaris characters, eg- why should I have to be a SW to take a power axe, I want one instead of a power sword on my gravis cpt or the new guy only has one heavy bolt rifle option...

no one even remotely said those weapons would be limited to those chapters. Just that those chapters would benefit more from using them...

 

 

The melee-based chapters already have melee-based rules that give extra benefit from using melee weapons, though.