How are your games going in 9th so far?

[Bulwyf]

I have played my NL and EC against Guard, Necrons, Sisters and Orks so far since 9th. The copious one I haven't played yet with my CSM armies are loyal SM. I have friends that want to play the classic Chaos vs Loyal matchups but I can't see how those games won't be completely one sided. Especially since it would be against Salamander successors or the new Dark Angels.

 

I can win against armies that haven't gotten their codex yet but so far no luck with NL/EC against those armies that do have their codex. I am curious how other CSM players are faring in 9th.

[MegaVolt87]

The easiest solution is to just use the SM dex with no primaris/ named characters and custom chapter tactics or a supplement (eg. UM as BL). If you explain the limitations of the current CSM codex, your friends should be sympathetic. Or prop up your list with FW stuff. 

[Maschinenpriester]

It's been a while since I won with my EC on the table. But that could also be because I am maybe not a good player. Since I started my sister's I have learned pretty fast about the difference in power level between csm and the sister dex. This showed me what csm could be. But regardless I enjoy the match up of my EC against their lapdog cousins because it just looks damn good on the table. At least for 2 turns... If I go first...

but to be honest last time I played against DA with the new codex vs a force mainly consisting of Deathwing, was the first time I felt a real feeling of frustration crept into me.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Maschinenpriester

[Marshal Loss]

Honestly I've stopped playing with my vanilla CSM armies, just can't stand being left sitting around waiting for 2W marines that we already know are coming.

[battle captain corpus]

I have only used my loyalists in 9th so far. As others have said, I'm waiting for the 2 wounds buff etc to hit. In the meantime it's keep assembling and painting as no one can predict what will be amazing when our codex drops. :)

 

BCC

[Kythnos]

Well, we started a crusade campaign in 9th in our group and while I am usually at the upper end of the ladder in our group's events I am struggling very hard with my IW. It is no pleasant experience so far...

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

No codex no play.  

[Cheex]

I'm very fortunate to live in a country that hasn't been heavily impacted by COVID so I've been able to get a bit of gaming in.

 

I've had about half a dozen Matched Play games, won maybe 2-3. I've also had 21 games of Crusade, but have only tracked the results of the past 13 games. Of those 13, I have won five.

 

Crusade doesn't really give a good overview of army strength, especially since I know I'm not using an optimal loadout. But either way, I'm not doing too good - many of my losses I can chalk up to me taking my eye off the ball (I get distracted easily and often forget things in the moment), but there have been plenty of instances where I felt like I just didn't have access to the right tools for the job.

 

I don't even mind the 1W so much. Sure, there have been plenty of times where I've thought to myself that things would've been different with an extra wound, but had that been the case then my opponent would have played differently anyway.

 

My worst track record is against Space Marines (0W-1D-6L in Crusade, and 1 win in Matched). My best is against new Necrons (2-0-0) and am doing reasonably well against GSC (2-0-1). I know I've also won a couple of times against Orks, but don't have any written record against them.

 

It's honestly just Marines that really give me trouble, they just always seem to have the answers to all of the tricks I can try. Or I could be brutally direct, but then their units are solid or flexible enough to withstand or react to this. The only win I've had against them with their new codex was down to my opponent neglecting to bring much anti-tank in the one game where I decided "bugger it, I'll try a Land Raider for fun".

 

Can't wait for the codex.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I'm very fortunate to live in a country that hasn't been heavily impacted by COVID so I've been able to get a bit of gaming in.

 

 

 

If you are in AU or NZ... that would be ironic.  Not often those places have it over on the rest of us for 40k.

[Cheex]

 

I'm very fortunate to live in a country that hasn't been heavily impacted by COVID so I've been able to get a bit of gaming in.

 

 

 

If you are in AU or NZ... that would be ironic.  Not often those places have it over on the rest of us for 40k.

 

 

AU. Extremely ironic that I been able to get more gaming in during a pandemic than I had over the prior 2-3 years combined.

 

Definitely helps that I moved to a new area and found an active and enthusiastic gaming group that meets every week.

[Schurge]

I've been winning most of my games vs marines on objectives but my group has also been letting me use the extra wound our codex is supposed to give us prematurely. That said, it isn't marines that are doing the heavy lifting but Daemons and Daemon Engines.

[Kain Mor]

I've been winning most of my games vs marines on objectives but my group has also been letting me use the extra wound our codex is supposed to give us prematurely. That said, it isn't marines that are doing the heavy lifting but Daemons and Daemon Engines.

Are you also paying 15-20% more points for your units with an extra wound or are you going into these games with a significant points advantage?

[Kythnos]

 

I've been winning most of my games vs marines on objectives but my group has also been letting me use the extra wound our codex is supposed to give us prematurely. That said, it isn't marines that are doing the heavy lifting but Daemons and Daemon Engines.

Are you also paying 15-20% more points for your units with an extra wound or are you going into these games with a significant points advantage?

To be fair, at least in comparison to SM, even with an extra wound as a patch we would probably be fine being cheaper due to their superior chapter traits and doctrines. Compared to other older codices that suffer similarly, this would need to be looked at more closely though.

[Maschinenpriester]

 

I've been winning most of my games vs marines on objectives but my group has also been letting me use the extra wound our codex is supposed to give us prematurely. That said, it isn't marines that are doing the heavy lifting but Daemons and Daemon Engines.

Are you also paying 15-20% more points for your units with an extra wound or are you going into these games with a significant points advantage?

When I have played against the new Deathwing I was granted an additional wound for my terminators as well at no additional cost. It did not really tip the balance as the buffs and bonuses that the other force recieved where much more superior then a "always fights first but only if you got charged with two units" Edited March 2, 2021 by Maschinenpriester

[Marshal Loss]

It's a sad indictment of our standing if a free wound doesn't make much of a difference. :P

[Schurge]

 

I've been winning most of my games vs marines on objectives but my group has also been letting me use the extra wound our codex is supposed to give us prematurely. That said, it isn't marines that are doing the heavy lifting but Daemons and Daemon Engines.

Are you also paying 15-20% more points for your units with an extra wound or are you going into these games with a significant points advantage?

 

 

I've been running a significant point advantage of 46 points (15%) to 65 points (20%). I will add the point increase in my games going forward but I don't think that I'm winning games because of 46 extra points of Berserkers (though I do recognize that you can do a lot with 46-65 points, a 23 point spawn can net 5VP a turn on a back objective) but the extra wound definitely helps in melee combat where most marines are only dealing one damage (at range its a lot of D2 guns and I seem to be dying just as quickly as I did in 8th to ranged guns). My last game in particular against a Salamanders gunline the extra wound didn't even come into play.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Schurge

[Schurge]

It's a sad indictment of our standing if a free wound doesn't make much of a difference.

 

It makes a huge difference in melee since Primaris mostly just punch people.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Schurge

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

It seems like GW has created a third tier of weapons... the anti marine.  In 9th there was anti horde and anti heavy.  The anti heavy has basically good vs anything with more than 1w.  If you are facing knights or marines you better have a lot of plasma/disintegrators.  If you face orks, assault cannons/punisher cannons, dakkabots.  In 9th plasma isn't as good against vehicles since one of the most common vehicle types takes half damage from all 2 dmg weapons.  I think where GW could mess up is if 3 dmg weapons are too common.  I'm a bit worried that guard battle cannons going to 3 dmg will make 9th feel much like 8th in terms of marine durability. 

[Marshal Loss]

 

It's a sad indictment of our standing if a free wound doesn't make much of a difference.

 

It makes a huge difference in melee since Primaris mostly just punch people.

 

Depends on the flavour.

[MegaVolt87]

Its never been much of an issue for even non melee dedicated MEQ's to push off a defending unit on an objective if its charge target has been shot up first. Even the humble intercessor is capable to do it, just more effectively than in the past in tandem with the firepower of primaris. Don't need to be the melee flavour to do it, you just do it a bit more efficiently in that case. 

[Schurge]

So, I just lost a 2000 point game against Black Templars 45-60 as World Eaters. I was winning for the first few turns on objectives but I severely underestimated my opponents army even at the list building phase and had killed everything but two Spawn and two MoK Obliterators in his first three turns.

 

I brought half the number of Daemon Engines I normally would because I wasn't convinced he had the tools necessary to deal with so much T7 (friendly game) and instead brought 4 MoK Obliterators and a Lasbrute. Well, he did have the tools to handle T7 with a beastly character heavy list with multiple overlapping auras, smart use of charge denial through model placement, and great utilization of his Judiciar he handily minimized his losses in melee while systematically removing my units from the board.

 

I handicapped myself much more then I intended by bringing 500-600 points of mediocre shooting and was too cautious in turn 2 leading to mistakes once I realized 3 Daemon Engines were a non-issue for his Templars but even still, he played very well - certainly better then most Marine players. His victory was well deserved.

 

Edit: I did pay 15% more points for an extra wound on my Berserkers in this game. Regardless, it ended up being irrelevant as they were killed off quite handily by D2 power swords and power fists. And the -65 extra points they cost wouldn't have impacted the game in any way if I had spent them on something else. I had primary objectives on lockdown.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Schurge

[techsoldaten]

So, I just lost a 2000 point game against Black Templars 45-60 as World Eaters. I was winning for the first few turns on objectives but I severely underestimated my opponents army even at the list building phase and had killed everything but two Spawn and two MoK Obliterators in his first three turns.

 

Next time, see if your opponent will accept a house rule where your Berzerkers have 2 wounds.

 

I've heard that makes a difference.

[Schurge]

 

So, I just lost a 2000 point game against Black Templars 45-60 as World Eaters. I was winning for the first few turns on objectives but I severely underestimated my opponents army even at the list building phase and had killed everything but two Spawn and two MoK Obliterators in his first three turns.

 

Next time, see if your opponent will accept a house rule where your Berzerkers have 2 wounds.

 

I've heard that makes a difference.

 

 

It does in many cases and we were using that rule. It did little to protect my Berserkers from Power Swords and Fists in this case.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Schurge

[techsoldaten]

 

 

Next time, see if your opponent will accept a house rule where your Berzerkers have 2 wounds.

 

I've heard that makes a difference.

 

 

It does in many cases and we were using that rule. It did little to protect my Berserkers from Power Swords and Fists in this case.

 

 

Yeah, I hear you.

 

Always holding out hope World Eaters are going to make a comeback based on some rules / mechanics changes, never seems to happen.

 

2W Astartes seemed like such a big deal when they were introduced, but it doesn't seem to make as much a difference for melee oriented armies.

 

Was it something specific about Black Templars that cost you the game, or was it just that World Eaters were not up to the task?

[Schurge]

 

 

 

Next time, see if your opponent will accept a house rule where your Berzerkers have 2 wounds.

 

I've heard that makes a difference.

 

 

It does in many cases and we were using that rule. It did little to protect my Berserkers from Power Swords and Fists in this case.

 

 

Yeah, I hear you.

 

Always holding out hope World Eaters are going to make a comeback based on some rules / mechanics changes, never seems to happen.

 

2W Astartes seemed like such a big deal when they were introduced, but it doesn't seem to make as much a difference for melee oriented armies.

 

Was it something specific about Black Templars that cost you the game, or was it just that World Eaters were not up to the task?

 

 

My opponent ran a Black Tide with heavy character support and some Tank / Dreadnought support. I ran a DP, Disco Lord, 4x5 units of Berserkers with Powerfist and Chainaxes + Chainswords in 2 rhinos, 2x2 Spawn, a Maulerfiend, a Blood Slaughterer, a Lasbrute, and 4 Obliterators. I purposefully diluted my list with mediocre shooting and subpar redundancy in an attempt to go easier on my opponent. I would have fared better if I took a more redundant list (A DP, 20+ Berserkers, 2 Disco Lords, 2-3 Maulerfiends, 1-2 Heldrakes, Chaff clearance, and Spawn). Either way, the Berserkers would be the worst performing unit in the list which is what is relevant here.

 

I severely neutered his armor with a turn 1 charge. I lacked the necessary 2nd turn punch due to lack of redundancy to eliminate his armor but it wasn't really a factor for the rest of the game with him failing to land anything with BS 5-6 in subsequent turns. He killed two of my Daemon Engines turn 1 and the third one on his turn 2.

 

Black Templars have an Interrupt and the ability through the Judiciar to make a unit fight last, so my charges were largely neutered after my initial turn one charge. At most, one of my units would get to fight before he would wipe everything out with power weapons even though I'm the one that made the charges. He always had his Judiciar where it needed to be it seemed. I was consistently getting 15 points a turn for holding objectives but was not managing to kill anything so he ended up winning primarily through secondary objectives with only his final turn after nearly everything I had was wiped off the board did he use some movement to get 15 primary objective points.

 

My loss is as much due to arrogance as anything else. Black Templars are supposed to be super weak as far as marines go with sub-par strategems right? I felt so assured in my own supremacy that I purposefully brought a sub-par list that my opponent easily outclassed with a bit of wit (some great turn 2 movement on his part that controlled my own movement) and great character support. Things would have been different with the alternate list I proposed in my first paragraph, but it still would have been rough.

 

I'm optimistic about 9th Edition. I know what I did wrong in that game. Marines have always been better then us for as long as I've been playing but I don't feel entirely outclassed crunch wise. This isn't 7th Edition where Berserkers can't kill anything stronger then a cultist and your Daemon Engines are hard-countered by a few inches of elevation. Hell, my game before this one was against a Salamanders gunline and he conceded by turn 3.

 

EDIT: Still, being overly reliant on Daemon Engines to win games isn't what most of us want, but its something I'm used to.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Schurge