How are your games going in 9th so far?

[ChazSexington]

Not particularly well - I've only had one win so far, against Black Legion with my Alpha Legion and Red Corsairs Monstars. I've only played about 10 games though. Also bear in mind I only play painted and I only paint units I like, thus my unit choices aren't always great (though I do try).

We do have certain units that are good (EC Termies), but our internal balance is shot. Thus, we can function as a supplement to DG or Daemons. ECs Noise Marines and Terminators (Honour the Prince) with Slaanesh Daemons isn't weak. 

[techsoldaten]

 

 

My opponent ran a Black Tide with heavy character support and some Tank / Dreadnought support. I ran a DP, Disco Lord, 4x5 units of Berserkers with Powerfist and Chainaxes + Chainswords in 2 rhinos, 2x2 Spawn, a Maulerfiend, a Blood Slaughterer, a Lasbrute, and 4 Obliterators. I purposefully diluted my list with mediocre shooting and subpar redundancy in an attempt to go easier on my opponent. I would have fared better if I took a more redundant list (A DP, 20+ Berserkers, 2 Disco Lords, 2-3 Maulerfiends, 1-2 Heldrakes, Chaff clearance, and Spawn). Either way, the Berserkers would be the worst performing unit in the list which is what is relevant here.

 

I severely neutered his armor with a turn 1 charge. I lacked the necessary 2nd turn punch due to lack of redundancy to eliminate his armor but it wasn't really a factor for the rest of the game with him failing to land anything with BS 5-6 in subsequent turns. He killed two of my Daemon Engines turn 1 and the third one on his turn 2.

 

Black Templars have an Interrupt and the ability through the Judiciar to make a unit fight last, so my charges were largely neutered after my initial turn one charge. At most, one of my units would get to fight before he would wipe everything out with power weapons even though I'm the one that made the charges. He always had his Judiciar where it needed to be it seemed. I was consistently getting 15 points a turn for holding objectives but was not managing to kill anything so he ended up winning primarily through secondary objectives with only his final turn after nearly everything I had was wiped off the board did he use some movement to get 15 primary objective points.

 

My loss is as much due to arrogance as anything else. Black Templars are supposed to be super weak as far as marines go with sub-par strategems right? I felt so assured in my own supremacy that I purposefully brought a sub-par list that my opponent easily outclassed with a bit of wit (some great turn 2 movement on his part that controlled my own movement) and great character support. Things would have been different with the alternate list I proposed in my first paragraph, but it still would have been rough.

 

I'm optimistic about 9th Edition. I know what I did wrong in that game. Marines have always been better then us for as long as I've been playing but I don't feel entirely outclassed crunch wise. This isn't 7th Edition where Berserkers can't kill anything stronger then a cultist and your Daemon Engines are hard-countered by a few inches of elevation. Hell, my game before this one was against a Salamanders gunline and he conceded by turn 3.

 

EDIT: Still, being overly reliant on Daemon Engines to win games isn't what most of us want, but its something I'm used to.

 

 

Roger that.

 

In fairness, most of the 9th ed CSM lists I've seen are daemon engine heavy. It seems to me they lack the tools on their own to deal with massed infantry, especially when buffed.

 

How did the disco lord / DP perform?

[Schurge]

My Daemon Prince always shreds through Primaris unless I roll exceptionally poorly. Same with the Disco Lord. The Disco Lord has been less impressive for me against heavy armor (tanks) which is surprising because it is supposed to be an armor killer and it face rolled armor in 8th edition. I guess there have been a lot of passive buffs to armor in 9th. I initially planned on dropping Maulerfiends entirely in 9th in favor of just running Disco Lords but the power is no longer there to just single handedly be your anti-tank.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Schurge

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

My Daemon Prince always shreds through Primaris unless I roll exceptionally poorly. Same with the Disco Lord. The Disco Lord has been less impressive for me against heavy armor (tanks) which is surprising because it is supposed to be an armor killer and it face rolled armor in 8th edition. I guess there have been a lot of passive buffs to armor in 9th. I initially planned on dropping Maulerfiends entirely in 9th in favor of just running Disco Lords but the power is no longer there to just single handedly be your anti-tank.

What tanks are you attacking with the disco lord?  What legion are you using?  Just curious since ive never known disco lords to has issues with tanks ><

[Schurge]

 

My Daemon Prince always shreds through Primaris unless I roll exceptionally poorly. Same with the Disco Lord. The Disco Lord has been less impressive for me against heavy armor (tanks) which is surprising because it is supposed to be an armor killer and it face rolled armor in 8th edition. I guess there have been a lot of passive buffs to armor in 9th. I initially planned on dropping Maulerfiends entirely in 9th in favor of just running Disco Lords but the power is no longer there to just single handedly be your anti-tank.

What tanks are you attacking with the disco lord?  What legion are you using?  Just curious since ive never known disco lords to has issues with tanks ><

 

 

Repulsors and World Eaters. I'm defining "issues with tanks" as not killing a Repulsor on its own in the charge phase.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

My Daemon Prince always shreds through Primaris unless I roll exceptionally poorly. Same with the Disco Lord. The Disco Lord has been less impressive for me against heavy armor (tanks) which is surprising because it is supposed to be an armor killer and it face rolled armor in 8th edition. I guess there have been a lot of passive buffs to armor in 9th. I initially planned on dropping Maulerfiends entirely in 9th in favor of just running Disco Lords but the power is no longer there to just single handedly be your anti-tank.

What tanks are you attacking with the disco lord?  What legion are you using?  Just curious since ive never known disco lords to has issues with tanks ><

 

 

Repulsors and World Eaters. I'm defining "issues with tanks" as not killing a Repulsor on its own in the charge phase.

 

Seems like a repulsor might be a bit too beefy to get dumpstered by a single discolord in 1 shot.   With Wild Fury and not rolling stupid 1s on the injector you should get close to killing it most of the time.  Are you remembering your DTTFE on 5s not 6s?    

[Schurge]

 

 

 

My Daemon Prince always shreds through Primaris unless I roll exceptionally poorly. Same with the Disco Lord. The Disco Lord has been less impressive for me against heavy armor (tanks) which is surprising because it is supposed to be an armor killer and it face rolled armor in 8th edition. I guess there have been a lot of passive buffs to armor in 9th. I initially planned on dropping Maulerfiends entirely in 9th in favor of just running Disco Lords but the power is no longer there to just single handedly be your anti-tank.

What tanks are you attacking with the disco lord?  What legion are you using?  Just curious since ive never known disco lords to has issues with tanks ><

 

 

Repulsors and World Eaters. I'm defining "issues with tanks" as not killing a Repulsor on its own in the charge phase.

 

Seems like a repulsor might be a bit too beefy to get dumpstered by a single discolord in 1 shot.   With Wild Fury and not rolling stupid 1s on the injector you should get close to killing it most of the time.  Are you remembering your DTTFE on 5s not 6s?    

 

 

I've just been doing it on 6s, and I can definitely bracket one. I may just have been getting super lucky in 8th regularly killing one on the charge.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

 

 

My Daemon Prince always shreds through Primaris unless I roll exceptionally poorly. Same with the Disco Lord. The Disco Lord has been less impressive for me against heavy armor (tanks) which is surprising because it is supposed to be an armor killer and it face rolled armor in 8th edition. I guess there have been a lot of passive buffs to armor in 9th. I initially planned on dropping Maulerfiends entirely in 9th in favor of just running Disco Lords but the power is no longer there to just single handedly be your anti-tank.

What tanks are you attacking with the disco lord?  What legion are you using?  Just curious since ive never known disco lords to has issues with tanks ><

 

 

Repulsors and World Eaters. I'm defining "issues with tanks" as not killing a Repulsor on its own in the charge phase.

 

Seems like a repulsor might be a bit too beefy to get dumpstered by a single discolord in 1 shot.   With Wild Fury and not rolling stupid 1s on the injector you should get close to killing it most of the time.  Are you remembering your DTTFE on 5s not 6s?    

 

 

I've just been doing it on 6s, and I can definitely bracket one. I may just have been getting super lucky in 8th regularly killing one on the charge.

 

Lord Ds get DTTFE on 5s!  This happens because of their +1 to hit aura and because DTTFE is not "unmodified".  This also applies to the bladed limbs+tail and the injector

[Slaanbull]

Agreed on the Lord Discordant being a powerhouse, I play EC so in the larger games I can have two of them rerolling charges plus other bonuses from Elixir, Raiment Revulsive and the S + A warlord trait.

 

While I've bemoaned our rules and eargerly await 2 wounds and other bonuses it is hard for me to complain over the codex without my gaming buddies rolling their eyes. 9th has for me though been a greater success than earlier edition and I regularly see myself trying to ease down my lists to have a better game. My usual opponents (a close group that has been able to play games at home the last half year) have been DG (new codex), White Scars, Admech, Orks, Harlequins, Tyranids, Chaos Knights and T'au in a mix of 2000, 1000 and 500 pts games. So there's a good mix of 'good' factions and codexes with as many problems (if not more in case of tyranids) as us. For the small games, the Master of Executions reins supreme with units of single obliterators, saving me the usual CPs spent on veterans and double shoot for much more reliability in honour the prince, rerolls and tactical reserves.

 

For the bigger (and more competetive) 2k games I took 4 wins in a small tourney of six players, everybody played against each other for a weekend. I brought a very gimmicky list of 20 noise marines in the kharybdis assault claw and the dark apostle reroll wounds relic, being able to reserve them if I didn't go first amounted to tremendous damage no matter how severe my losses were the first turn. Rest of the points were spent on cultists, two discordants and some venomcrawlers.

 

I think we are in an alright spot right now, although it's easy to focus on the new books and their obvious difference in tools and rules. There's an innate bonus in having no updates for a while, because it amounts to the player being extremely intimate with their rules, I've only played EC CSM for five years now which really consolidates my expectations of specific units and stratagems, allowing for better predictions of their performance during a game.

 

I've tried for a while to move out of my old playstyle of reroll one auras and the like, and have had a lot of fun with unsupported close combat noise marines for their many attacks (2 base like the chosen). So for the most part I'm switching out my old chaos lords and daemon princes for characters who don't need to babysit units so all my things work in a vacuum, giving everything the option of moving independently and changing up the gameplan depending on what happens. :) I haven't found the loss of rerolls or prescience to really impact my units, allowing me to field more small units that in turn don't soak up all the CP for support stratagems. That being said, when I happen to field a 10 man noise squad they still eat 4-5 CP every single turn.

[Marshal Loss]

I hope it doesn't come off as tonedeaf, but I felt that my input might be interesting since it seems like I have a much different experience in 9th than some of the other members here. Do you feel it's just an EC thing? I believe that Word Bearers, Biles Creations and Iron Warriors all bring good relics and stratagems as well. The other legions I'm not too familiar with sorry.

In the wake of F&F, EC are far and away the most powerful Legion, and the only one actively involved in winning major tournaments.

[Slaanbull]

In the wake of F&F, EC are far and away the most powerful Legion, and the only one actively involved in winning major tournaments.

As far as I've read online that's my take from it as well, the scene here has been totally dead and I haven't ever met another EC player so I don't have the practical experience of being on the other side.

Does it all boil down to Honour the Prince that allows you to place a unit where you want it when you want it? It's probably the single strongest stratagem in my opinion. But the lists I've seen of EC are quite varied, often with daemon support, and/or terminators but also with many different builds. Is the range of builds EC can do the reason for their many placements? Because I feel that while EC can build around many units, the other legions can do many of the same singular builds the same or better. creations of bile rush, iron warrior obliterator bombs, black legion decimators etc.

[Marshal Loss]

Honour the Prince is the star of the show and without it EC wouldn't be showing up in tournaments, but the Third benefit from having a diverse toolkit in ways other Legions don't. Noise Marines are the best power-armoured troops choice in the CSM book and combine well with other stratagems, while relics like the Remnant & RR cater to a diverse array of builds. The MoS is already the most popular mark for most units in other Legions so EC aren't penalized for being stuck to it. We also naturally mesh with Slaaneshi Daemons, who are a competitive powerhouse at the moment and have been for some time. Most top lists only take EC for their Terminators and make Daemons do the heavy lifting. Beyond HtP though, we're nothing special.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Honour the Prince is the star of the show and without it EC wouldn't be showing up in tournaments, but the Third benefit from having a diverse toolkit in ways other Legions don't. Noise Marines are the best power-armoured troops choice in the CSM book and combine well with other stratagems, while relics like the Remnant & RR cater to a diverse array of builds. The MoS is already the most popular mark for most units in other Legions so EC aren't penalized for being stuck to it. We also naturally mesh with Slaaneshi Daemons, who are a competitive powerhouse at the moment and have been for some time. Most top lists only take EC for their Terminators and make Daemons do the heavy lifting. Beyond HtP though, we're nothing special.

You have to admit though, it is a bit cool living in a 40k world/meta where Tau is laughed at and the Emperor's Children are feared.  

[Bulwyf]

I have DG, EC and NL and out of the two CSM options EC are better rules wise. Noise marines are just so much fun to play. You can do full melee or shooting. The NL are hamstrung with the worthless morale phase as their gimmick.

[Lord_Valorion]

 

Yesterday in a 2000pts game against admech, was the first time I fielded a three-man squad of Obliterators, they were with a Master of Possession in the dreadclaw drop pod. They rolled 1 dmg for both of their shooting phases and generally whiffed, but being able to actually have them shooting in turn one even with the relatively short 24" range is well worth the price of the drop pod, and definitely something I want to try out again.

You can't leave the pod the turn it arrives, so what you described was not the right play. Dreadclaws are :cuss now.

[Slaanbull]

You can't leave the pod the turn it arrives, so what you described was not the right play. Dreadclaws are :cuss now.

You're totally right as far as the rule is written, sorry if I confused anyone. :)

Our group has decided that this must be an oversight since we've had issues with mistakes and omissions in the forge world books specifically. And since there's no reason for Chaos options to be worse than imperial ones we play it so they can disembark when it lands, I should've added that to the post originally. :)

 

 

Just got my backside whooped in a 2k against Death Guard with a melee focused list, some random greater possessed, discordant, noise marines and a heldrake list.

Between his contagions for -1 toughness, removal of rerolls, minus to hit on key units and own rerolls I couldn't keep up on the midfield or from turn 3 and onwards. My 52 points to their 85 were mostly scored in the first turns while the DG got in position. I've decided I need more roadblocks for the next game and just hang back while weathering the plagueburst crawler shooting, instead of trying to box with a clearly superior foe..

Edited March 19, 2021 by Slaanbull

[Sception]

 

 

Cus in these plague times, I'm not.  Even if the store is open, I'm not going.

[Plague _Lord]

 

 

Cus in these plague times, I'm not.  Even if the store is open, I'm not going.

 

 

I've had a few games with family members and the few times I've played someone else we are wearing  high quality masks the whole game just for security (we also have the club to ourselves so the risk is minimized).

[Maschinenpriester]

 

Cus in these plague times, I'm not. Even if the store is open, I'm not going.

Same here. Just having some games with my brother who lives 2 villigages next to me. He has 5 different armies so I get to test out many opponents against my csm.

[Kythnos]

 

Cus in these plague times, I'm not. Even if the store is open, I'm not going.

Only online via Vassal currently, but better than nothing.

[Are Verlo]

It is easy to forget that different countries and regions have a very variable number of cases. I live in a small town (pop 60.000) in the «artic wasteland» of Northern Norway and so far have been able to play the following number of games:

5 game GT

5 prep games for the GT.

 

Pick- up games vs the following fractions

Black Legion

Craftworlds

Imperial Guard

Ravenguard x2

Necrons x3

Crimson Fists x2

 

=][= Non 40K, removed by BCC =][=

Edited March 28, 2021 by battle captain corpus

[Azekai]

It is easy to forget that different countries and regions have a very variable number of cases. I live in a small town (pop 60.000) in the «artic wasteland» of Northern Norway and so far have been able to play the following number of games:

5 game GT

5 prep games for the GT.

 

Pick- up games vs the following fractions

Black Legion

Craftworlds

Imperial Guard

Ravenguard x2

Necrons x3

Crimson Fists x2

 

=][= Non 40K, removed by BCC =][=

And how did those go?

[Are Verlo]

I played a lot of different fractions, only a few of those games were with chaos marines.

 

The GT (57 palyers) I won with Slaanesh daemons

 

Vs the black legion I lost playing as Thousand sons. I underestimated Abbadons aura buffing a few daemon engines and dreadnoughts and could not keep up the war of attrition over the objectives.

 

 

Won a game vs necrons with 1ks. The key here was huge blobs of rubrics and/or scarabs with prescience, veterans of the long war strat and re-roll 1´s to hit are perfectly capable of gunning down 15+ necrons warriors. Psychics/mortal wounds chipped off a a few models in 20-strong warrior blobs and then the inferno bolters and inferno combi-bolters cleared the rest in one volley preventing reanimation protocols.

 

Alpha legion vs Crimson fists: alpha legion victory. At our local scene we have plenty of high quality terrain of all sorts, like industrial minig world, jungle death-world, ruined city, chemical wasteland and so on. So my games may differ from your local scene. Anyway the stars of this match was 10 MoS Terminators using the 9" pregame move and soaking crazy amounts of fire. 

 

EC + Slaanesh daemons vs Necrons: A great game with the usual suspects from the EC and Slaanesh rooster: Noise maines, terminators, Keepers and Epitome. That was a tournament build I wanted to try it out vs a durable build like necrons (2x 20 warriors, immortals, the 5++ cryptek, royal warden, overlord, nightbringer and some other stuff I cant recall). Slaanesh win, probably lost the war of attrition, but won on primaries and secondaries.

 

EC vs Fists: EC win vs a "newly convertet" AoS player. He was still learning to use his marines, so the EC rocked them to the core with 1x 20 NM, 2x 10 NM, 10 termies, priest with remnant and cultists for turn 1 tide of traiors/dark prince to place 30 obsec bodies on the right objective.

That said, I am the most competivive player in my meta and play the most games and dedicate the most time to the hobby. I consider gaming to be a gentlemans agreement. If I want to have prep for a tournament, then I expect my opponent to bring his best. On the other hand I´ll glady play traing/tutorial games with new players and if someone wants to play their custom built heavily converted fluffy army, I´ll field something that will make for a fun game. BUT I´ll always have a plan: how to score seconaries. If I cant comfortably score 10 pts of the secondary, then I´m not chosing it.

[Xenith]

Great to hear it's going well. KSons vs Necrons had to be tough!

 

BUT I´ll always have a plan: how to score seconaries. If I cant comfortably score 10 pts of the secondary, then I´m not chosing it.

 

This is something a lot of players in my local group have. They insisten on a tournament early on, but after it ends I'll be coaching them on secondary scoring. Loads of them have games with a zero score for at least one secondary. 

[Squike]

I've played quite a few games since December using TTS, and had varied success with what I think is a reasonably competitive list using models I actually own but at the same time is kinda fluffy for a CSM list.

 

List:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369504-alpha-legion-2000pts/

 

my 3 games against Dark Eldar (pre Codex) is 2-1 to the DE

2 against Guard  with wins for chaos both times

1 against Tyranids, CSM victory

1 against Sisters, CSM Victory

1 against Orks, CSM Victory

and 4 against various Marines, (Iron Hands, Death watch x2 and another that escapes me), 2-2, the 2 losses were a mid sized points gap, 1 win was real close and the other was quite a big gap to me.

 

I think the key to my victories has been good secondary choices, I know what my list is able to achieve and based on my opponents list what opportunistic secondaries I may have and what they can easily deny me. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Squike