Any sense of when to expect a Chaos Codex?

[techsoldaten]

Title says it all.

 

I have not been too tuned into the rumor mill, wondering if I missed something. Now that Dark Angels is out, is GW providing a roadmap for upcoming Codex releases?

 

C:CSM was the first Codex in 6th edition, felt the design focus changed after it was released and we ended up with something sub-par. Happy to wait for something that's better adapted to 9th edition rules, but would like to have an idea when to expect it. 

[Marshal Loss]

Now that Dark Angels is out, is GW providing a roadmap for upcoming Codex releases?

No. We know that there are model(s) coming for SoB, Orks, & Mechanicus, so they're likely next, but this is not confirmed.

 

I'm assuming that CSM not being thrown out of the gates rapidly means that we can expect accompanying models, perhaps a second wave to follow on from what we got in 2019, but that's just a supposition.

[battle captain corpus]

There’s nothing to support GW releasing codex chaos marines any time soon or any date to be honest.

 

It will come. It will be awesome. 

 

In the meantime grab those paints & clippers and add to those collections! Then when the time comes it’s all cool!

 

BCC

[WarriorFish]

Other than "not soon enough"? That said, not like there's many games going on so a bit of a wait isn't too bad. Which is just as well because as noted there's no hints of anything in the near future. It would be nice if this meant new models but I think CSM have done well for recent additions, that's not to say there aren't some glaring omissions here (that surely don't need listing)...

 

I think most would agree that what we'd really like - and what can hopefully come with the time to do it - is a revamped and much improved codex. Maybe we can find out more soon, until then who doesn't have some models that need attention?

[Marshal Loss]

FWIW, my reasoning for expecting a large-ish release - whenever that actually happens, whether that be in 2021 or 2031 - is as follows:

 

• GW has preferred to split major releases into different parts in recent years (see e.g. Lumineth, Primaris, Hedonites) and we still have significant holes in our range even after the 2019 update. We know from GW's own mouth that e.g. they want to get around to doing normal Possessed, etc, and GW doesn't usually have their designers outright state that they'd like to do new models for (x unit)
• When our codex is released, we'll lose access to the overwhelming majority of the rules content from Faith and Fury and Vigilus Ablaze. GW has at this point caught on how popular the Legions are, and I think a supplement, ala Traitor Legions - or supplements, ala 8th/9th ed loyalists - are inevitable. Doubt it would be on the scale of what the loyalists got, but you never know.
• As one of the most popular factions in the game, probably the second beyond Space Marines, you'd generally expect us to get a book early in the edition (e.g. 8th). The lack of a "hold over" PDF might indicate a significant rules revamp coming, especially as we're sitting on 1W marines (although you also have e.g. GK sitting on 1W, so it could simply be that GW doesn't know what to do)
• Various statements since 2016 about how GW sees the Legions, what exactly the model for a Legion is/should be, and of course copious hints dropped about e.g. EC. When the DG were dropped in 2017 GW said on the record that this was the model for future Legion releases.

 

Not trying to get people's hopes up, just doing what I was trained to do, as always.

 

I doubt we'll be waiting for too long, we're too huge a faction to be left alone in the cold, but the advice above re: working on some models in anticipation is indisputably the way to go. In any case, I'd rather wait for a good book, even though I'm still very annoyed that GW hasn't given us some kind of PDF update to bestow upon us the statlines found in newer books.

 

The DG book was fantastic, hopefully ours is as good.

[MegaVolt87]

I have a gut feeling WE drops before EC as the next cult force. Khorne is pretty popular in the IP, as a comparison I felt the khorne guys in AoS had more buzz around them compared to the hedonites. People keep saying Fulgrim, but Angorn's also had a confirmed comeback on Armageddon. I think a new cult army will jump ahead of regular CSM first, nothing like a demon primarch to move an army.

[Marshal Loss]

I have a gut feeling WE drops before EC as the next cult force. Khorne is pretty popular in the IP, as a comparison I felt the khorne guys in AoS had more buzz around them compared to the hedonites. People keep saying Fulgrim, but Angorn's also had a confirmed comeback on Armageddon. I think a new cult army will jump ahead of regular CSM first, nothing like a demon primarch to move an army.

• There are more EC references in lore over the last few years, significantly more, than the World Eaters
• Angron's return is not confirmed - there was only an abortive summoning attempt - while Fulgrim's is confirmed (the Iron Hands supplement mentions a captain who died at Fulgrim's hands)
• Both DG and TS were designed in tandem with mortal forces for their respective gods. We literally just received Hedonites...while mortal Khorne has been on the backburner for quite some time.

Skeptical that a new cult would drop before the main CSM book, but it's possible I guess

[betrayer41]

I do have a feeling it might be released later or "last" and WE and EC won't be in it.

[Kythnos]

I think the biggest indicator for a CSM codex (same with GK and TS) sooner than later is the need to align astartes statlines across all astartes codices. I cannot imagine that they intend to keep the obvious disparity for too long (and every day feels too long, currently).

[Plaguecaster]

From the upcoming campaign book it seems knights and mechanicus will be the next imperial armies to get a new codex as well as dark Eldar for xenos so that's probably 2-3 months of no chaos marines

 

I hate how they crammed all the loyalist astartes with access to primaris out in such a short time but normal chaos marines seem to of been left out

Also wish chaos stuff like helbrutes would come back in stock again, depressing trying to find any at all with ebay and the like charging 2-3 times the price of them normally, even the dark vengeance ones are impossible to find and so damn expensive

Edited March 2, 2021 by Plaguecaster

[MegaVolt87]

 

I have a gut feeling WE drops before EC as the next cult force. Khorne is pretty popular in the IP, as a comparison I felt the khorne guys in AoS had more buzz around them compared to the hedonites. People keep saying Fulgrim, but Angorn's also had a confirmed comeback on Armageddon. I think a new cult army will jump ahead of regular CSM first, nothing like a demon primarch to move an army.

• There are more EC references in lore over the last few years, significantly more, than the World Eaters
• Angron's return is not confirmed - there was only an abortive summoning attempt - while Fulgrim's is confirmed (the Iron Hands supplement mentions a captain who died at Fulgrim's hands)
• Both DG and TS were designed in tandem with mortal forces for their respective gods. We literally just received Hedonites...while mortal Khorne has been on the backburner for quite some time.

Skeptical that a new cult would drop before the main CSM book, but it's possible I guess

 

 

Khorne vs Slaanesh, I could see GW doing a 40k Khorne release to break up the releases overall chaos wise. Slaanesh in both AoS and 40k in the same year kind of splits attention too much. If GW needs to prop up its financials, a cult 40k army release with a primarch returning will do the job more so than a base CSM codex, so could likely put ahead of the CSM codex this year. Or GW could pull an out of field play and move up CSM first with Lorgar, opening the door for Corax to come back, those two have some beef lately, would have the same sales impact as a cult legion  + returning primarch. Realistically though, its only Fulgrim + Angorn who will show up and that will be that. I wouldn't count on what's happening lore wise for releases IMO. 

[Marshal Loss]

 

Khorne vs Slaanesh, I could see GW doing a 40k Khorne release to break up the releases overall chaos wise. Slaanesh in both AoS and 40k in the same year kind of splits attention too much. If GW needs to prop up its financials, a cult 40k army release with a primarch returning will do the job more so than a base CSM codex, so could likely put ahead of the CSM codex this year. Or GW could pull an out of field play and move up CSM first with Lorgar, opening the door for Corax to come back, those two have some beef lately, would have the same sales impact as a cult legion  + returning primarch. Realistically though, its only Fulgrim + Angorn who will show up and that will be that. I wouldn't count on what's happening lore wise for releases IMO.

They did Tzeentch in 40k & AoS within two months of each other & Nurgle in 40k & AoS within c. 7 months of each other, so I'm not convinced splitting the ticket is a factor of any real consequence. The main thing is that we know for certain that they like to develop 40k & AoS god-specific content concurrently because of the way digital design works; if they've done an entire AoS Slaaneshi mortal range and done nothing for 40k, I'd be very surprised. It's possible, but completely out of line with how they've acted + how they describe their design process as working. Khorne, conversely, we have absolutely no indication for at all. At least with Slaanesh we have significantly more lore hints + the big AoS release to go off.

 

In any case, a Primarch returning is a big deal. Entirely possible they'd use one to headline the vanilla CSM book - I'm skeptical, but it's plausible.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[MegaVolt87]

While probably Slaanesh was developed in a block in tandem with AoS + 40k, I don't see GW being obliged to be predictable at this point in time releasing chaos content. A cult legion + new primarch is a money printer, another minor chaos force could be crowbarred in (demons/ chaos knights), I just don't see another cult force and base CSM in the same year is all. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

If EC and or WE don't get their day in the sun this edition, would be nice to get new noise marines and or khorne berzerker kits at least (or even decent upgrade sprues with weapons for the new chaos marine box).

[Marshal Loss]

While probably Slaanesh was developed in a block in tandem with AoS + 40k, I don't see GW being obliged to be predictable at this point in time releasing chaos content.

It's not about GW being predictable, it's about the logistics of designing significant releases like this. I'm not rendering verdicts on what's coming when, I'm just telling you why, based on what we know currently, EC would be a smarter bet over WE. Using the past to predict the future makes far more sense than going based off one's gut; even then, there's currently zilch for CSM fans to go off, as outlined above. That's all there is to it.

 

 

If EC and or WE don't get their day in the sun this edition, would be nice to get new noise marines and or khorne berzerker kits at least (or even decent upgrade sprues with weapons for the new chaos marine box).

 

100%. I'd happily (as an EC player) take a proper plastic Noise Marine kit alongside a vanilla CSM book. No upgrade sprues please

Edited March 2, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[MegaVolt87]

Having 2 concurrent Slaanesh lots of content releasing is in itself predictable though when you think about it, but for me its been a while since GW acted "smart", I think "clever" or "savvy" are more applicable to them these days. But yes, having said that I just want to reiterate I do agree with you we could well see a new cult legion + primarch this year. 

[Marshal Loss]

Having 2 concurrent Slaanesh lots of content releasing is in itself predictable though when you think about it

 

As above, that comes down to logistics. Designing them together = economy of effort. I doubt GW would have released mono-god factions in AoS & 40k in close proximity on multiple occasions if they thought that they'd cannibalize each other's sales.

 

At the end of the day there's no good reason to think that they wouldn't drop EC & Hedonites in the same year. That doesn't mean they will, although I'll be crossing my fingers for obvious reasons.

 

but for me its been a while since GW acted "smart", I think "clever" or "savvy" are more applicable to them these days.

 

I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

But yes, having said that I just want to reiterate I do agree with you we could well see a new cult legion + primarch this year. 

 

The overarching point, to be clear, wasn't that we could well see a new cult legion release this year (although we could). It's hard to feel confident about a CSM release in 2021 with the pandemic slowing things down & nothing concrete to go off. But things can change rapidly; DG were teased in March and had a full codex release in September after the DI launch in June. Thousand Sons I'm not sure, but it wasn't as long a leadup, maybe a few months.

 

In any case, you are right, we could see a cult legion before a vanilla CSM book. I'd assumed otherwise just because we're all sitting around waiting for our 2W marines, but I guess time will tell.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[Prot]

I keep thinking logically 'we' as 'chaos' should be soon because it represents so many models. Right now so many models are handicapped just by not having a proper wound count. But as time goes on.... I keep wondering where it is.

 

Most (not all) other codexes just need tweaks, but Chaos is really in need of a big clean up, and it covers so many armies. 

[Cheex]

With COVID and Brexit affecting international shipping so heavily, it really could be any time. In my industry, lead times for manufacturing products in China are getting closer and closer to the 18-month mark - for the first time in my industry, we're having to plan for two Christmas seasons ahead. GW is obviously affected differently, but the general problems would be the same: raw material shortages, limited production capacity, increased difficulty in booking international container shipments.

 

At the outset of 9th edition and the news that Marines would all go to 2 Wounds, I expected Chaos to be not far behind. I figured that surely GW wouldn't want there to be such a huge disparity between codexes - at least, not New GW. This sort of thing might have been normal in previous editions (remember when you could have different stats and costs for a weapon across different codexes, with no update in sight for years?), but seems to be less common in 8th and 9th.

 

But the 9th edition codex is looking like it will need a pretty extensive rewrite, and that's not just for our statlines (+1W, +1A). GW's design philosophy for subfaction bonuses has completely changed, for example, not to mention the increase in the number of detachment bonuses etc.

 

We also haven't had any new models teased, while other factions have. I suspect there's at least 3 factions ahead of us in the queue, after Drukhari.

 

I'd be surprised to see a new CSM codex within the next 6 months, and wouldn't be surprised if we had to wait until next year.

[Tokugawa]

GW could release a 9th codex with 0 or 1 new model set. But I think that won't happen on CSM. If a new CSM release still don't include any plastic noisemarine or khorne stuff, players will go rage.

[Lucerne]

Frankly at this point, any new releases will be less hype and more "better late than never".

[Iron Father Ferrum]

We've had rumor-mongers and "insider sources" telling us that Angron and new Berzerkers are boxed, shrink-wrapped, and just sitting in the warehouse waiting to be shipped out.  We've had little drips of fluff in codices and online shorts telling that Fulgrim is on his way!

 

Assuming these aren't red herrings and we will be seeing the other two cult Legions coming with dedicated books and revised model ranges, it raises a very serious question about release order.  If you release the base CSM without WE and EC (because of the presumed stand-alone codices), do you drop the new model kits with that codex?  Plus, players of those Legions would have to soldier on for some measure of time without new rules for their armies, which means this release is a half-measure for the current balance problem Chaos as a whole is facing.  Alternatively, if you start dropping WE & EC first, GW will be seeing ridiculous sales numbers because you'll have ostensibly new Noise Marines, new Zerks, and two new Primarchs coming out.  That certainly solves the CSM codex issue, but on the flip side those of us who don't play any of the Big Four Cult Legions are still stuck sitting on our hands waiting for our new rules.

 

The only way GW can release Chaos without anyone getting their feelings hurt is to drop WE, EC, and CSM (again...presuming those two extras are going to be released) all at the same time.  They won't do that, though -- it's too much at once, and from a purely financial point of view, they know they can't overload too many wallets by dropping that much high-demand material simultaneously.  They'd actually lose money on the drop because your average gamer can't afford that much plastic at one time.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to keep putting brush to model so that I've got options to put on the table whenever the codex does drop.

[Gederas]

GW could release a 9th codex with 0 or 1 new model set. But I think that won't happen on CSM. If a new CSM release still don't include any plastic noisemarine or khorne stuff, players will go rage.

Look, I can give a Nurgling's Rectum about updated plastic Noise Marines or Khorne Berzerkers currently. We all know we'll get them sometime. Whether it's sooner or later is irrelevant.

 

GIVE ME AN ACTUAL CHOSEN KIT AND MULTIPART OBLITERATORS/MUTILATORS FOR THE GLORY OF CHAOS GW, PLEASE!

 

Also: Possessed that don't look like :cuss please?

[Tokugawa]

For tournament and competitive meanings, a mono World Eater codex is extremely difficult to write. And difficult to balance in future patches, too. Make EC an independent book and keep WE in CSM codex may be more viable.

[battle captain corpus]

Let’s not turn this into a wish listing thread eh guys? There’s enough of that already I think. Let’s try and perpetuate more of the content side of collecting Chaos. 

 

BCC