Exorcists gene-seed primogenitor named!

[Gamiel]

 

 Even the mighty Grey Knights, from whose seed Rauth’s Chapter had been born, could hardly have been more suited to the task".

While I agree that this do seems to say that the GK are their forebears can I actually, with the kind of symbolic language often used in WH40k, also see it as more of an indication of the background for their mystical ways - like in "a seed of an idea" and such.

[Skywrath]

Or you could do as I do, and assume that the Exorcists think they are descended from Imperial Fists, when in reality they are GK successors. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gamiel]

Or you could do as I do, and assume that the Exorcists think they are descended from Imperial Fists, when in reality they are GK successors. 

That's a possebility, for all we know.

 

Or maybe it will the other way around. 

 

We will see how it's precented ones the WD is out. 

[Ioldanach]

This is a very unexpected development but I don't really have a problem with it (I never liked the Grey Knights parentage). I'm curious who people think the gene-seed predecessor should have been (not including the Grey Knights). The Ultramarines are always a safe choice. We can rule out the traitor legions, certainly. We can also rule out the Blood Angels and Space Wolves because of their genetic problems. The Dark Angels haven't been favored for the creation of new codex chapters, but an argument could be made for someone wanting to use their gene-seed for some reason, especially a secret reason. The Raven Guard and Salamanders have minor issues with their gene-seed, so would seem less likely, though I could see some argument being made for them. I could see the White Scars and Iron Hands as possible options, though I doubt they would be preferred. Really, with the possible exception of the Ultramarines, the Imperial Fists seem like the most likely choice.

 

I'll be disappointed if they change the concept of their daemonic possession rituals, especially if they remove it entirely. It was a poignant demonstration of the shadowy and convoluted nature of the Inquisition. Also, it removes the rationale for the two additional scout companies. It will be curious to see how they justify those companies in the revised lore [if they get rid of the daemonic possession]. The vague explanation given for those two additional companies was that "...their esoteric training requires a high influx of recruits in order to ensure the Chapter's continuation." From that I always inferred that the Exorcists had only 1/3 the normal number of aspirants surviving the scout phase to become full battle brothers, so they needed three times the number of aspirants (as normal chapters) in order to have the normal number of aspirants surviving to reach full battle brother status. I always assumed that the majority of those additional casualties were a byproduct of the possession/exorcism and additional non-standard training. If you remove those elements from the normal induction process, some other rationale needs to be created in order to justify the existence of all of those scouts.

 

The only possible rationale I can see for getting rid of the daemonic possession schtick is if GW wants to preserve the concept of the illuminati and doesn't want the complication of a full chapter of such beings. I still wouldn't like the change to the Exorcists lore, but if it keeps the illuminati in play, I can live with it.

 

Y'know what would be really interesting? Since we know that gene-seed is typically listed by the original legion/primarch, but that it can actually come from any Chapter, it could be that the true gene-seed stocks used for the creation of the Exorcists were sourced from the Black Templars. They would still be considered to have "Imperial Fists" [Legion] gene-seed. I really doubt that's going to be the case, but I can dream.

[Ryltar Thamior]

Brother Tyler makes a very good point viiz. the Index Astartes Third War for Armageddon material from twenty years ago - I'd genuinely forgotten just how ground-breaking (and character-full) some of those inclusions were at the time. Which does indeed partially show how well they've embedded themselves in the canon and our collective perception of the universe. Quite a few rather 'distinctive' chapters showed up there either for the first time - or in their modern form there, if as with the Exorcists they'd been around for longer. 

However, that's precisely the point - I just took a look over the relevant (archaic) IA material for the Exorcists [it's the Report by the Genetor-Major, Lauram Clelland [curiously, specified as Xenobiologis - perhaps because that's ... as close as the AdMech are 'allowed' to get to daemons, a sub-branch of the Aliens-focus], prepared circa 013.M36], and instead of the narrative presented on that first page of the modern IA Exorcists article wherein the situation develops as the result of a single campaign at some point reasonably in to the chapter's post-founding existence ... 

In this older source, we have the Genetor-Major presiding over the bespoke creation and 'augmentation' (through controlled possession) followed by field-testing of an initial two companies of Astartes, and declaring that as the process has evidently been a strong success, that the completion of a full chapter built around these two companies should be the next stage of the process (something which should take an ensuing half-century to bring to full-scale fruition). 

Or, in other words - the 'unique' practices of the Exorcists are already very much an intrinsic and endogenous part of who they are and what they do even before they're officially a chapter. 

Now it's not impossible to read the two sources [the old IA and the new IA] in concert - for example, maybe this first double-company of Exorcists wind up mind-wiped or simply wiped out and the whole thing is started over from scratch with a view to 'guiding' the 'new' Exorcists to more spontaneously develop the practices and processes that the 'test' companies were subjected to. But I would expect that, if it were the case, to be talked about in the IA article - if it isn't, and we're just presented with the Exorcists starting out as a reasonably standard Fists successor and then having things go seriously awry on a campaign ... then it's a writing over the top of the previous canon [which, to be fair, GW is allowed to do - and occasionally does quite positively], and it's just us grognards old enough to remember the old fluff who make the mental effort to 'keep it alive' through headcanon-reconciling the two [which, to be fair, *we're* allowed to do - and we often do so quite positively]. 

Also, a further point I find rather peculiar is that previous fluff had the actual geneseed of the Exorcists subject to an "Absolute Bull" [i presume that's a 'Bull' as in a 'Seal' - like a Papal Bull ... rather than 'Absolute Bull' in the more modern, colloquial sense ... which certainly seems to sum up the reactions of a proportion of the participants of this thread to the Fistening of the newborn chapter] from the Inquisition, indeed via the authority of their High Lord representative. 

As in - why have it declared such an absolute secret in older fluff ... if it's now openly stated that they're Fists successors now - unless the older fluff is, again, being discarded and written over the top of. Although again, it's possible to read the two in concert, for example - 

 

Or you could do as I do, and assume that the Exorcists think they are descended from Imperial Fists, when in reality they are GK successors. 

I personally had it the other way around, wherein it's what *other* Imperial groups may think the Exorcists are descended from, with the Exorcists themselves perhaps having a rather clearer view of the situation [or, at least, a non-Fist based one]. But until somebody actually opens the (modern) WD article, we're all up in the air and speculating.

It's *possible* to read just about any fluff statement you like within the 40k canon as being ... questionable. Even (perhaps especially) the ones that purport to be from the perspective of a semi-omniscient depersonalized narration [c.f the aforementioned Index Astartes presentations of the Iron Cage incident in both the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors entries being ... markedly different in some respects - as one should anticipate and expect]. 

So if newer canon invalidates older - perhaps *we've* been in possession of the now-'incorrect' understanding this entire time. I'm not sure I'd like that - not as a general point of principle [i don't need to start rattling off RT era fluff to explicate why...], but rather because I'm yet to be convinced that the general presentation of the Exorcists, such as it is in that WD IA article of this year, is likely to be an actual improvement on what's gone before. 

All up - and cognizant that I haven't seen more than the first page of the modern IA piece  - it does rather seem that there's either been a bit of an oversight in terms of some of the previous details and characterization presented for the chapter (in which case, it's understandable to be a little less than emphatically impressed) , or potentially an outright overwriting of same (in which case, if you were a fan of the previous background, it's understandable to be rather *more* less than emphatically impressed). Phrased more succinctly: a case either of "Didn't Know" or "Didn't Care". 

And which, in either case, shall assumedly mandate us, the ordinary hobbyist [or, more accurately: the extraordinary sort of hobbyist who makes his (or her) way to B&C ... and who may quite likely have a semi-encyclopedic working knowledge of some quarter century or thereabouts of 40k canon materials] to reconcile in our own minds as best we can just how much of the 'past' we want to preserve and just how convoluted the headcanonry-explanations we wish to push in order to do so. 

Some might call all of that 'part of the fun'. Others might term it an eye-brow-rolling exercise in futility and frustration. 

Still - could be worse. Could be something like the Minotaurs getting a modern IA article that 'restores' their old chevron-based colour-scheme or something ... 

 

[WARMASTER_]

I think this is a great chance to show just how little geneseed lineage can mean to a chapter. So their geneseed is Rogal Dorn. Doesn't mean they love to fortify, or participate in the Feast of Blades, or even acknowledge their heritage.

 

Do I love this reveal? No. But it's salvageable. I'll definitely be reading the full article.

Couldn’t agree more with this, by the time the Exorcists were created (13th founding) it’s really not a case of who your daddy is will define you anymore, it’s stable gene seed.. that’s all!

 

I’m very disappointed they didn’t just leave it a mystery though, we gain nothing by knowing

[Gamiel]

 

I’m very disappointed they didn’t just leave it a mystery though, we gain nothing by knowing

We gain (or loss, depending on your taste) that they are not Grey Knight successors. And maybe more stuff. We will see ones the article is out.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Gamiel

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

I’m very disappointed they didn’t just leave it a mystery though, we gain nothing by knowing

We gain (or loss, depending on your taste) that they are not Grey Knight successors. And maybe more stuff. We will see ones the article is out.

Unfortunately for me I enjoyed the unknown rather than the definite, but then I’ve always preferred the unknown but hinted at more in 40K

 

I hope they don’t lean into it much as they already have great lore

[Marshall Riese]

I was not very pleased to see the identification of the gene lineage made open content, but how do we know its not an Alpha Legion psyops campaign?

[jeremy1391]

Or you could do as I do, and assume that the Exorcists think they are descended from Imperial Fists, when in reality they are GK successors.

That is my personal head canon. After all far fewer people actually know that the Grey Knights exist, however almost everyone knows who space marines are and one with such renown as the imperial fists would be perfect to be the “step daddy” so to speak. If they were an Ultramarine successor (or claimed to be) then I’m sure the boys in blue would have some documentation of it somewhere like the nerds they are!

[That Guy Matt]

I obviously haven't read the article yet (not even the first page from the picture), but from the thread I think the problem is in how people are perceiving the article rather than its content.

 

It is being taken as an article of indisputable truth from an omnipotent all knowing being.

 

Perhaps instead try to perceive it as a report put together by an Administratum Adept working from sparse, heavily redacted, conflicted and incomplete records that are themselves potentially put together based on hearsay and hundredth hand information.

 

40k lore in the Era Indomitus is essentially the last person in a 10,000 year game of Chinese Whispers.

[Angry Banana]

I would have really liked it if they originated from loyalist Word Bearers, hence their propensity for allowing warp entities into themselves as a rite of passage.

 

Oh well, looks like dorn is the go to "we're not quite sure about this lot" primarch.

I would have preferred the ambiguity.  If Alan Bligh was still alive he'd have made sure there were enough subtle clues for you to pul it all together without having to spell it out as he did with the Minotaurs.

 

As has been said, the universe has got that little bit smaller.

[Spinsanity]

I’m really looking forward to the article, I remain hopeful this is all written with a “they’re Dorn sons, officially anyway” kind of vibe, which would leave room open for head-cannon and interpretation,l while making it so they can force a CT instead ofnletting players chose which 1st legion works best (reminds me of the “BA Carcharodons because the index doesn’t say they’re RG successors”)

[JimVandy85]

Personally, I would have liked to see the Exorcists end being a Word Bearers successor. Makes more sense in my head canon.

[Spinsanity]

Personally, I would have liked to see the Exorcists end being a Word Bearers successor. Makes more sense in my head canon.

I'm pretty sure there's also a whole rules (and commercial) motivation behind the move: making them VII successors instead of XVII means that any Exorcists player who wants full access to all their rules can't just get the White Dwarf, they also need the IF Supplement... Edited March 22, 2021 by Spinsanity

[MECHFACE]

[Gamiel]

The sister has a very strange way of saying "everything except the main colour of the armours" 

 

 

:P

[Shinespider]

I would have really liked it if they originated from loyalist Word Bearers, hence their propensity for allowing warp entities into themselves as a rite of passage.

 

Oh well, looks like dorn is the go to "we're not quite sure about this lot" primarch.

I would have preferred the ambiguity.  If Alan Bligh was still alive he'd have made sure there were enough subtle clues for you to pul it all together without having to spell it out as he did with the Minotaurs.

 

As has been said, the universe has got that little bit smaller.

 

Does this really make sense, though?

 

The inherent property of the Word Bearers isn't anything Daemonic or Occult, it's just that they're extremely religious. The Black Templars are a more likely Word Bearers successor than the Exorcists. The Fists, on the other hand, are noted for their stubbornness, discipline and willpower, which is frankly a much better fit - those are precisely the qualities that would allow one to survive possession. 

 

I honestly think this is the best possible outcome. Giving them a totally mundane progenitor allows their lore to stand on its own - their practices are the result of their own chapter's history and decisions, not some inevitable heritage passed to them.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Shinespider