VV with twin chainswords vs SG no upgrades

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 VVs with twin chainswords and jump packs and VVsarge with CS and relic sword get 20 attacks for  115pts while 5 SG with no upgrades get 15 attacks for 150pts 

has anyone seen the math hammer on damage output against MEQ and GEQ?

I know twin LCes blows SG away in damage output for about the same price.
and LC+SS is about the same or greater as well for cheaper, but i haven't seen the numbers crunched on a twin chainsword loadout for VV compared to SG

[Tokugawa]

Value of VV is 2+/4++ from cheap stormshields.

 

VV without shields is an unit in vacuum. It doesn't matter for being better or not better, than an unit which no competitive game used.

[Rhavien]

Also chainswords are far inferior compared to encarmine weapons. No +S lower AP and dmg. Edited March 11, 2021 by Rhavien

[Jolemai]

Is this any use?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366876-sg-vs-dc-vs-vv-9th/

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Jolemai

[Xenith]

Apples and oranges - Those units should go after different targets. Naturally the VV will lookbetter aganst 1W opponents, while SG will be better against high save multi wound. 

 

For a more balanced comparison, how about:

 

5 VV's with 10 chainswords get 26 attacks on the charge (t2) for 115pts

5 DC with 5 chainswords get 25 attacks on the charge (t2) for 125pts, plus an extra 5 bp shots, FF strat access and a 6+++. 

 

Which do you prefer?

[Thoridon]

Aye, if you purely look at melee then VV with dual chainswords will clock in as slightly more points efficient than DC with a single chainsword against a Guardsman profile (T3, 5+ save). As Xenith points out, those few extra points for the DC give you an extra bolt pistol each, the 6+++ and access to any DC strats, but that may or may not be worth the extra cost to you - especially as a VV with a single claw is cheaper than a DC with a chainsword. SG will have a similar damage output against basic infantry as their extra damage weapons aren't fully utilised but in that role they're less points efficient as the models cost a lot more each.

 

As soon as you look at Marine profiles or tougher as a focus - essentially anything with more than 1 wound - the chainsword starts to really drop off. That's not to say it's useless, but SG see a huge boost to effectiveness and points efficiency as soon as their D2 weapons come into play. You're then looking at fists or hammers on other units to compete, and that's where DC get the edge over VV for damage output with the extra charge attack while VV get the edge for survivability with the 2+/4++ shields.

 

The main thing is if you're looking at anti-Guardsman melee, VV with a pair of claws are the most efficient by far while also not being too bad against tougher things thanks to all the rerolls despite only being D1. Chainswords can't compete for damage output, their only 'niche' is to keep the unit as cheap as possible if you're really tight on points and want to squeeze the unit in to throw against weak infantry.

[Karhedron]

Yup, the 3 different units are complimentary.

 

SG: Efficient vs elites and vehicles

DC: Efficient vs hordes

VV: Durable with a 2+/4++. Can be tooled up for various opponents but fewer attacks. SS/LC is probably best all-round configuration