L30n1d4s Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) With many different dangerous enemies these days depending on 5++ or 4++ (or even 3++, in some are cases) Invul saves, the ability to remove them entirely is perhaps more powerful/more important than ever. While Space Marine Psykers seem to have taken a back seat to Chaplains, Captains, and even minor characters like Apothecaries, the option for all Astartes to access Null Zone via their Librarians can be a game changer, I think, especially considering the smaller boards and more melee focus prevalent in 9th edition. So, as I consider it, it seems to me that there are two really significant hurdles in using Null Zone as a space marine player: 1) Casting it successfully (without being denied) 2) Delivering the Librarian to within 6" of the enemy, once it has been cast successfully So, the first of these is relatively straight-forward -- Null Zone requires a 7 to cast, so it is (rightfully) one of the more difficult psychic abilities to get off, especially compared to the Warp Charge 5/6 powers that are more prevalent. There are two major ways that I can think of to boost this... first, by upgrading the Librarian to a Chief Librarian and giving him the bespoke Warlord Trait which adds +1 to his casting rolls, so in essence making Null Zone into a Warp Charge 6 power. Secondly, if you take a Successor Chapter, you can take the Trait that allows all Librarians to re-roll any 1s in their Psychic Tests. Between this and the +1 to cast Warlord Trait, you can raise the chance of getting Null Zone off from around a 58% chance to about an 80% chance of being successful, so a very significant improvement of odds in your favor. The only other way that I can think of to get Null Zone off more reliably is very specific to Ultramarines, namely using Tigurius to cast it (he has innate +1 to cast and free re-rolls to cast) and buffing him with another UM Librarian using Empyric Channeling for +2 to cast (so a TON of resources invested in doing this). As for the second challenge, this is a more complicated one. Since all Librarians are infantry (except Blood Angel Librarian Dreadnoughts), they either need to foot slog within 6" of the enemy, take a Jump Pack to increase their mobility, or ride in some kind of transport. The most effective methods that I know of are the following: 1) Phobos Librarian with Impulsor -- Equip this Librarian with the Tome of Malcador (so he can take both Null Zone and Temporal Corridor) and load him in the Impulsor during deployment. Once the game starts, the Impulsor can move 14", disembark the Librarian 3", move the Librarian another 6", then cast Null Zone and Temporal Corridor him another 6+D6" -- taken all together, that is a 30-35" move, plus the 6" Null Zone aura, so he can "turn off" the Invul of a unit that is 36-41" away, even as early as Turn 1. 2) White Scar Jump Pack Librarian with a Land Raider -- Same concept as above, but using the WS Strat "Lightning Disembarkation" to get him out after the Land Raider moves and using his Jump Pack to move 12" instead of the Phobos Librarian using his 6" move + Temporal Corridor for another 6+D6" 3) Blood Angels Jump Pack Librarian -- Use Tome of Malcador to give him both Wings of Sanguinius and Null Zone, then Advance 12+D6", then move another 12" (Wings of Sanguinius). You can add an additional 2" to this if you have a Sanguinary Ancient with the Wrath of Baal relic nearby which, taken all together, makes for a "net threat range" of 33-38" for his Null Zone aura. 4) Raven Guard Jump Pack Librarian with Master of Ambush -- You can get him just outside of the enemy's DZ with Master of Ambush, then move 12+D6" on your first turn to "hop" into enemy lines and turn off their Invuls in a 6" bubble. Despite these options, I'd say it is still a hard thing to get Null Zone off and into range to affect your opponent (not to mention the danger of losing your Librarian if you move him that far forward), but it can also be a game-changer in the right circumstances (e.g. turning of Mortarion's Invul means that AP-3/AP-4 shooting will just tear through him). Anyone else figure out good ways to deploy Null Zone in their games? Edited March 14, 2021 by L30n1d4s Ryltar Thamior 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 I am wondering if the Null Zone libby is actually a trap, at least in a TAC list. The thing about the Null Zone Libby is that he costs around 150 points when fully tooled up with Master Librarian and Jump Pack. Yes he may double the potency of your Eradicators or MM Attack bikes but only against units that have a 4++. And to do that he has to get close to the enemy which is risky. He then has to successfully cast the power and hope your opponent does not deny it.For 150 points you could roughly buy another squad of Eradicators or MM attack bikes. That will give you the same effect vs units with a 4++ and much better results against units without. They are harder to kill than a single Libby and cannot be countered by a lucky Deny the Witch.Now this is exaggerating slightly as the Libby will likely to be doing more than just Casting Null Zone but it does lead me to think that trying to turn off Invulns with an expensive Libby is not the best approach. Alcyon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5678464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 I have to agree with Karhedron on the trap bit -- not only is it a massive expenditure of points, but Null Zone itself is so short ranged that you're probably throwing your Librarian away just to get the power off (and that's if you get the power off). If it helps you get an early kill on something huge and itself points-intensive like a Daemon Primarch, sure, then it's worth it. For general games, though, I'd rather take more utility powers that I can use throughout the game and not stick my Libby where he's likely to get shanked as soon as my turn is over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5678651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1) Phobos Librarian with Impulsor -- Equip this Librarian with the Tome of Malcador (so he can take both Null Zone and Temporal Corridor) and load him in the Impulsor during deployment. Once the game starts, the Impulsor can move 14", disembark the Librarian 3", move the Librarian another 6", then cast Null Zone and Temporal Corridor him another 6+D6" -- taken all together, that is a 30-35" move, plus the 6" Null Zone aura, so he can "turn off" the Invul of a unit that is 36-41" away, even as early as Turn 1. I'm a templar and wouldn't know of such things, but I thought Phobos had to take from their phobos psyker powers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5678739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Yea that's correct. You can split between chapter powers and the codex ones with the tome, but you can't get access to both codex versions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5678766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 I've used Null Zone a few times, notably against Custodes where it really shines. I think Karhedron's point about investment is well-taken and I wouldn't use it to make my melta better. However, I do think it's a solid option when you have the initiative (i.e. are the one charging) and losing your unit's invuln save isn't going to make them super vulnerable to shooting if you wipe the enemy unit and/or they fall back. That's obviously pretty situational, but it means units like Bladeguard are a solid option because their 2+ ensures they still get a half-decent save against most weapons (melta and plasma aside.) I also think it's important to highlight the power level difference between the Librarian models. Frankly, unless you're willing to do conversions or buy OOP models, the firstborn Librarians suck. You pay 90pts for a 4w model with only 3 attacks, WS3 and a 3+ save, and whether you go power armour or terminator the kits mostly come with the worst weapons, the force staff (Str 7 is wasted against all infantry and AP1 is terrible) and the force axe (Str 6 is mostly overkill against infantry). Going Primaris nets you an additional wound and attack, plus Transhuman in a pinch, and both models come with the sword. You still need some kind of relic to improve the model's survivability though, and you lose access to jump packs so you're stuck foot-slogging it. To me that's another argument for running them with BGV or even with Aggressors, if you can find a meta where you want to play them - that way you can run Psychic Fortress too an either go from giving everyone a 5++ to denying invulns at no cost to your own guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5685716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandragola Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 I think it makes sense to take a librarian and to give him null zone, among other things. It's one of those things that's incredibly useful, occasionally. With daemons and harlequins all over the place and invulnerable saves generally a good idea (not least thanks to eradicators) a tool to turn them off is a big deal, sometimes. It does depend what army you're playing. I think it's generally a better power for melee armies than shooting, as it doesn't require you to throw the librarian away to quite the same degree. Something like a Ravenguard Librarian with master of ambush would be a pretty good way to get there, along with some other fighty stuff. Alcyon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5685765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Consider you have to take Mandatory HQ slots, so the Librarian with Null Zone is not wasted points or a trap if he is one of those. If you take an extra HQ just trying to fit him in then yes it is certainly a trap. Having said that, for me Null Zone is too much effort for the reward against many opponents really. Requiring to get so close to be effective is a real challenge, not least because Librarians are so vulnerable. However, when you use him successfully you're gonna do some serious damage to models who might otherwise be very difficult to kill. It's a case of do you have the tools to deal with big Invulnerable saves units or not really and do you fancy filling the void in your HQ Mandatories with a Librarian? I'd be inclined to add Null Zone to a Librarian as an additional extra as utility rather than desired tactic. Use it as opportunity. An example is, my Terminator Librarian has the role of Veil of Time for teleport Terminators alongside a Chaplain boosting their charge, so the extra power could be Null Zone and that wouldn't hurt the plans or points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5687916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Had a game vs guard recently and NZ made quick work of the Ogyrn. Captain Idaho and emperorpants 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5688020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Having played both firstborn and Primaris Librarians lately I think they are fundamentally just too weak for what they bring in 9th edition. None of them have statlines that really justify them as combat characters and their powers are too vulnerable to disruption to be reliable. Add to that the fact that the kinds of weapons that really capitalize on NZ are often too expensive to be good value on the models they come with (i.e. T4 2+/4++ with no Transhuman) I think I would rather try and overwhelm invulns with ranged weapons. That said I've mostly been facing hard targets like Custodes and TWC, which either are far tougher than the Librarian's output can deal with or have multiple fight-first abilities or both. I could see NZ being a meta pick against glass cannon armies reliant on invulns like Demons or Drukhari, but then you're paying a fair chunk of your army for an ability that's not especially useful in lot of matches with a TAC force. Smite helps but now that you have to lock in psychic powers before the tournament it's of limited utility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5688099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) I recently used Null zone and heavy eradicators to delete Morty. NZ was clutch. Tiggy is great for making sure NZ actually gets cast. Edited April 14, 2021 by emperorpants BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5688664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Two NZ Libbies in top lists this last weekend, so I was wrong turns out. The BA one using a jump pack and Wings of Sanguinius to solo show up anywhere is pretty terrifying. https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-ratcon-2021-comic-quest-gt/ Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5688852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Yeah, I strongly suggest a Jump Pack Librarian for its use. Otherwise you're relying on the opponent to put their invulnerable saving models where you want them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5689145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DistractionTacMarine Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 I just used a NZ Libby to help delete a daemon prince and a couple of daemon engines in a game last night. Being able to get past the Cursed Earth 4++ on those engines was absolutely key. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5689186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Phobos Librarian can take the Fire and Fade Phobos Warlord Trait to move in the shooting phase after the psychic phase. That's pretty useful with null zone and other aura powers. Are Verlo 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5689698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUnlikelyGamer84 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) Phobos Librarian can take the Fire and Fade Phobos Warlord Trait to move in the shooting phase after the psychic phase. That's pretty useful with null zone and other aura powers. I like this idea but I don’t think it can be done. I don’t think the Phobos Libby has access to the regular librarius powers. Even with the tome of malcador. Edited April 22, 2021 by TheUnlikelyGamer84 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5691371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 One option I like is a Terminator Librarian to drop in with Terminators, alongside a Chaplain, then benefit from Commanding Oratory to get in close in with a charge. Of course, Null Zone hurts Invulnerable saves of friendlies too, but the extra wounds, 2+ save and great weapons should compensate for that somewhat. Again, very situational. Nice utility power that could save games, but Might of Heroes on a character with Thunder Hammer is so awesome. Karhedron and BLACK BLŒ FLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5691489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Again, very situational. Nice utility power that could save games, but Might of Heroes on a character with Thunder Hammer is so awesome. Might of Heroes on a Primaris Chaplain with Relic Crozius and Mantra of Strength is also a pretty killer combo if you have the Chaplain there already. And it doesn't have the -1 to-Hit penalty of the Hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5691538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Well for me, the Chaplain is dropping in with the Terminators so won't be Primaris, but yes good advice. The Primaris extra attack goes a long way there. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5691542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I ruminate on this, or rather the use of a Null Zone libby here. So, as I consider it, it seems to me that there are two really significant hurdles in using Null Zone as a space marine player:1) Casting it successfully (without being denied)2) Delivering the Librarian to within 6" of the enemy, once it has been cast successfully I think you have this a bit backwards. Generally you have to get within 6", then try to cast. So I think in practice it's more like: 1) Get squashy Librarian Danger close to the biggest threat in your opponent's army 2) Pray. Of course you could cast, the charge to get within 6", but then you're also relying on his charge roll and that of another unit to be sucessful. In my thoughts on having the libby in <2000pt games, I just don't think it's worth it. At 1000pts, I'd pay ~160+ points to double the number of wounds my 5 vanguard do to a 4++ unit...or I could just get another 5 vanguard for the same or less, getting 6 extra 2+/4++ wounds in the process. Same with attack bikes, etc. Where the libby is useful is where you know you'll be facing 3++ saves, like custodes with old rules, or impossible robe LoC's where the NZ libby will increase damage by 3x...but then with native +2 to deny, you're getting nowhere near casting NZ near a LoC. There's probably use for them in 2k lists where you've already maxed out unit entries, and even then I only reckon as a toolbox with veil of time, and maybe psychic fortress to move your guys around or protect them. Alcyon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5691545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I always take a chief librarian - just being able to deny a critical psychic power can be a real game changer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5691689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 I think Libbys have a place for sure. Psychic fortress on its own is invaluable with all the high ap stuff getting thrown around, especially if you run redemptors. Null zone is a great power to have in your back pocket. It really can be a game changer. Of course, I often run Tiggy, which changes things. He pretty much auto casts things, so things look different with normal librarians. BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369507-null-zone-delivery-system/#findComment-5692996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now