Issues with Glossy Lahmian Medium

[KaosRaptor]

Hi Brothers, just wondering if anybody has encountered Lahmian Medium resulting in a glossy finish on their models?

 

I've just been washing some models with a mix of Drakenhof Nightshade and Lahmian Medium and it's unfortunately turned out very glossy, which isn't a great look when I'm using it on skin. According to everything I've read, and GW themselves, it should be drying relatively matte?

 

I've tested using the wash and medium separately on a base and the wash is drying matte while the medium is shiny, so I know it's the medium that's the problem. I've been shaking it pretty thoroughly too.

 

I'm sure I've used the medium before and it's dried matte, so is it possible I have a dud pot? And any ideas on how to fix the skin on the models I've done?

 

Thanks!

[m_r_parker]

Honestly I don't think there's anything that can be done about your particular pot. As you've mentioned, it should be drying with a matte finish. Take it back to GW, explain the problem, and have it swapped out with a fresh pot. You should be able to use it straight out of the pot to matte-down any glossy areas caused by the dud medium.

[Bryan Blaire]

I've had that happen when I've thinned a Shade with Lahmian Medium before as well (along with the development of small, chalky spots in the deepest recesses, presumably where something collected that was very matte), and I was able to clear the shine by running some thinned matte varnish over it (thinned with airbrush thinner, not more Medium).

 

I agree with m_r_parker, see if GW will swap the pot out (if it's pretty new).

[KaosRaptor]

Thanks brothers, I haven't used much of it but I've had the pot for a few months and there's no GW anywhere near me (ordered from third party online) so I don't think I can really return it. I managed to fix the models by going over them with Contrast Medium instead, thankfully I tested it and at least that is definitely drying matte.

 

@Bryan Blaire, I have a pot of Reikland Fleshshade which is developing those chalky spots too, though it's doing that both with and without mixing with medium. You think it's worth replacing that too? I've been using thinned Guilliman Flesh as a replacement in the meantime.

 

Thanks for your replies!

[Bryan Blaire]

Sounds like it might be worth replacing, although if you are getting good results with the thinned Guilliman Flesh, that might be worth keeping up - I use Reikland for shading gold, so I'd be interested to know if you've used it for that?

 

I like the Contrast products for a lot of shading stuff, instead of actual painting.

[KaosRaptor]

Yup, I've used Guilliman Flesh (no thinning) for shading gold on my Exorcists, and I think it looks really good, though you may want to thin it depending on how dark you want your gold. Honestly it's pretty much replaced Reikland for me because of the chalky spots I kept getting with that, I just thin it on things like skin so it's not too intense.

 

I'll probably order a replacement pot of Lahmian at some point because I do use that a fair amount, but I can probably get away without buying any more Reikland.

[Bryan Blaire]

Good to know, thanks KaosRaptor - going to have to give it a shot on my next squad of Wolves - I typically try to get relatively dark with the gold, with just a bit of shine, because I'm going for an "aged/ancient" sort of appearance.

[KaosRaptor]

No worries, I got the idea from Duncan Rhodes and if it's good enough for him it's definitely good enough for me! 

 

Just be careful with how much it pools, I used it on a House Lucaris Chaos Knight recently and in some recesses it can get so dark that it's a very dark brown. 

 

 

[Urauloth]

I have a pot of Reikland Fleshshade which is developing those chalky spots too, though it's doing that both with and without mixing with medium. You think it's worth replacing that too? I've been using thinned Guilliman Flesh as a replacement in the meantime.

 

 

I advise shaking it a lot and trying it out on a test piece. Because they're so thin, it's easy to forget to shake shade paints sufficiently - it can be hard to spot when they start to seperate, and they can do some truly horrible things when they do. The chalk-like effect seems unfortunately unavoidable wherever they build up too heavily; I think it's the medium they're suspended in that causes it. Contrast paints don't seem to do it, which is an advantage of using them (and layer paints) thinned with contrast medium. Of course, that doesn't work for everything - I'd be lost without the ability to glaze things with Agrax - so my tips for using shades, based on my experience, are to keep them well shaken and to thin them with contrast medium rather than lahmian.

[StraightSilver]

The only time I've had Lahmian Medium dry glossy was when I added too much water to it. It should dry reasonably matte (although not completely). I think it sounds as though you may have a dodgy pot unfortunately.

[KaosRaptor]

I advise shaking it a lot and trying it out on a test piece. Because they're so thin, it's easy to forget to shake shade paints sufficiently - it can be hard to spot when they start to seperate, and they can do some truly horrible things when they do. The chalk-like effect seems unfortunately unavoidable wherever they build up too heavily; I think it's the medium they're suspended in that causes it. Contrast paints don't seem to do it, which is an advantage of using them (and layer paints) thinned with contrast medium. Of course, that doesn't work for everything - I'd be lost without the ability to glaze things with Agrax - so my tips for using shades, based on my experience, are to keep them well shaken and to thin them with contrast medium rather than lahmian.

 

 

I've just tested my Reikland again (after some very thorough shaking) on a rock that was sprayed Mechanicus Standard Grey, and several chalky spots showed up. I'll probably just have to get a replacement pot, 'cause this is happening very consistently. This is the first wash that's done it for me, but yeah I've seen some people online reporting it happening with Nuln Oil and Agrax. Guess it's luck of the draw?

 

The only time I've had Lahmian Medium dry glossy was when I added too much water to it. It should dry reasonably matte (although not completely). I think it sounds as though you may have a dodgy pot unfortunately.

 

Yeah I've never added water to my medium as far as I can recall, and it's definitely drying glossy on its own and when it's mixed with any other paint. I'm gonna have to get a replacement of that too I guess!

 

Thanks for your responses brothers!

[NiceGuyAdi]

Lahmian Medium does have a bit of a satin finish to it. Not really noticeable on a single application, but I’ve found in the past when using it to thin glaze layers, the shine builds up with lots of applications

 

I prefer Contrast Medium these days for a lot of applications.

[techsoldaten]

I've noticed the shine, can't explain why it happens but it does. A chemist tried explaining mediums to me once, said the difference between gloss and matte has to do with the amount of air in the mix. That didn't help but it was interesting to know a matte medium is often the same, chemically, as a gloss one, only degassed.

 

I've dealt with the shine using a plain layer of Lahmian Medium. It naturally dries to a satin finish and can cut down on the glossiness. You might want to invest in a bottle of Liquitex Matte Varnish, I use it on models that got too shiny.

[Arkhanist]

I've noticed the shine, can't explain why it happens but it does. A chemist tried explaining mediums to me once, said the difference between gloss and matte has to do with the amount of air in the mix. That didn't help but it was interesting to know a matte medium is often the same, chemically, as a gloss one, only degassed.

 

I've dealt with the shine using a plain layer of Lahmian Medium. It naturally dries to a satin finish and can cut down on the glossiness. You might want to invest in a bottle of Liquitex Matte Varnish, I use it on models that got too shiny.

That may be possible for some mediums, but for most paint - including acrylics - an actual matting agent is added. There are multiple types, from very fine talc-like silcates to plastic wax emulsions - which can affect film strength, adhesiveness for further layers, and robustness of the finish so quite a lot of chemistry goes into it. However, the end result is a surface that is slightly bumpy, which scatters light and looks matte. Lots of matting agent gives a very dull, non-reflective surface (scale75 paints and dullcote varnish are examples of a very matte result) while citadel paint is naturally more satiny, which lahmian medium should match. No matting agent at all usually results in a flat, reflective surface i.e. gloss.

 

Some times the matting agent sinks to the bottom of the bottle (that slightly white layer, particularly noticeable with Contrast) so a very vigorous mixing* can usually get it back to normal - but if that doesn't work, as noted repeatedly above, it's a dodgy pot that's either got a bad mix of medium&matting agent&pigment&water or has been contaminated at some point. Either way, it's get a new pot time.

 

Lahmian medium is a decent if pricy option to mix into GW paint to thin without losing any adhesion and keeping the equivalent matte effect as normal GW paint, but it's definitely overpriced as just a matte mix-in - you can pick up artist liquid acrylic matt medium for less than 1/2 the price per ml (lahmian @ 20p per ml, liquitex airbrush medium @7p per ml for example) that does everything lahmian does, or e.g. instar matte+ for 14p per ml for just a liquid matting agent you add sparingly to paint by the drop to make it more matte - or just use a thin coat of a matte varnish, which most of us already have.

 

Contrast medium is a more complex mix of medium, flow aid, matting agent and other stuff, so is admittedly harder to exactly replicate on the cheap, though you can get close.

 

 

* I did pick up a vortex mixer to really mix my paints. I'm getting too old and stiff to really give it enough elbow welly, so though it was definitely pricy I love the thing immensely - it can restore old GW metallics to perfection in 30 seconds that 10 minutes of hand shaking with an added steel shaker will barely touch, and makes re-mixing Contrast before use trivial. You can get an in-pot mixer like a mini blender cheaper, but then you need to clean the thing...

Edited April 4, 2021 by Arkhanist

[KaosRaptor]

I've noticed the shine, can't explain why it happens but it does. A chemist tried explaining mediums to me once, said the difference between gloss and matte has to do with the amount of air in the mix. That didn't help but it was interesting to know a matte medium is often the same, chemically, as a gloss one, only degassed.

 

I've dealt with the shine using a plain layer of Lahmian Medium. It naturally dries to a satin finish and can cut down on the glossiness. You might want to invest in a bottle of Liquitex Matte Varnish, I use it on models that got too shiny.

 

So I've since bought a new pot of Lamian Medium, and it's interesting to note that my old one (that dried glossy) does become very bubbly whenever it's shaken, and these bubbles take a long while to dissipate. I never thought anything of it, but it does seem to match up with this. My new pot on the other hand forms much fewer bubbles when shaken and they disappear much quicker (and it dries matte, hooray!).

 

@Arkhanist: Thanks for the writeup, that's very interesting. I've seen that white layer form at the bottom of my Contrast Medium and Micro Flat, but not my Lahmian, which is odd. Maybe it's just because I use it more often.

[Urauloth]

 

 

* I did pick up a vortex mixer to really mix my paints. I'm getting too old and stiff to really give it enough elbow welly, so though it was definitely pricy I love the thing immensely - it can restore old GW metallics to perfection in 30 seconds that 10 minutes of hand shaking with an added steel shaker will barely touch, and makes re-mixing Contrast before use trivial.

 

I've been considering one of these for a while, almost started a thread about it to see if anyone here had one. Glad to hear it's as useful as it looks!

 

I have a busted hand that makes proper shaking impossible a lot of the time, and it's often a long stretch between painting sessions, which means my paints separate in their case and it's a pain to fix them when they do. If I'm away from the hobby desk for a few months, my GW metallics might have mutated into something unrecognizable when I come to paint again. If the vortex is as useful as it looks, it would save me a lot of hassle.

[Arkhanist]

 

 

 

* I did pick up a vortex mixer to really mix my paints. I'm getting too old and stiff to really give it enough elbow welly, so though it was definitely pricy I love the thing immensely - it can restore old GW metallics to perfection in 30 seconds that 10 minutes of hand shaking with an added steel shaker will barely touch, and makes re-mixing Contrast before use trivial.

 

I've been considering one of these for a while, almost started a thread about it to see if anyone here had one. Glad to hear it's as useful as it looks!

 

I have a busted hand that makes proper shaking impossible a lot of the time, and it's often a long stretch between painting sessions, which means my paints separate in their case and it's a pain to fix them when they do. If I'm away from the hobby desk for a few months, my GW metallics might have mutated into something unrecognizable when I come to paint again. If the vortex is as useful as it looks, it would save me a lot of hassle.

 

As long as you can hold the bottle down it should work for you I think. The 'on' button is under the middle of the blue rubber bit on top, and it does vibrate your hand holding the pot somewhat. It's not unpleasant, but you know it's happening!

 

I've just come back from a 6 month break, so most of my paints need a shaking before use.

 

Some in definite need, before vortexing:

 

 

After vortexing for 30 seconds each:

 

 

The thicker paints, or ones that are really gnarly - skullcrusher brass and screaming skull in this case - mix better with a shaker of some sort to really mix up the thick sludge at the bottom. I use these AK stainless steel ones, but anything that's heavy enough and won't rust will do. Paint that's started to thicken up entirely will benefit from adding some medium as well - such as lahmian medium, or artist's liquid matt acrylic medium.

 

Video of it in use - not me, obviously. I think it's sold under several different brands, but the four E's one seems to be a good one in the UK.

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Arkhanist