Returning to In Person Gaming

[techsoldaten]

Informal survey. Help me understand what it would take for you to return to in-person gaming.

 

Here's the situation: A number of hobby stores near where I live closed down, leaving players with few options for gaming. I own some commercial property which includes a warehouse. The owner of the company that leased it passed away, which means it will be unoccupied for at least a year. Considering setting it up as a gaming space.

 

Not looking to make money off this, just miss gaming and realize, as lockdowns ease, the options for places to play are limited. My partner and I have some estimates, it looks like the total available space within 25 miles is < 30% what it was before. So we're looking to fill a hole until better options come along, with as few headaches as possible. Willing to burn some cash to make it happen.

 

The business issues are pretty straightforward, what I'm not clear about is people's attitudes. Help me figure out what matters to people most by answering a few questions.

 

1) Aside from tables and climate controls - what is the minimum you would be looking for in a place set up to allow you to play?

 

2) How many people would you personally be comfortable around in a location? Would your answer change 6 months from now?

 

3) Would the temporary nature of a location be a turn off? For instance, if you knew this was only going to exist for six months, would that make you less likely to want to play there?

 

4) Would you pay money to have a place to game, like a monthly membership fee or a per-session fee? If so, how much would you consider reasonable?

 

5) If you had to schedule your games in advance, would that make you less likely to want to use the space?

 

6) If you had to wear a mask when in the building, would that make you less likely to want to use the space?

 

7) On a scale of 1 - 5 (5 being the highest,) how important is it that you know the other people who would be using the space?

 

8) How important would it be to have someone on-site to manage the location? Would you trust yourself and others to finish games on time and leave the place in a good state? Or would you only be comfortable if someone 'in charge' was present at all times?

 

9) We're considering limiting all games to a strict timeframe to allow cleaning between sessions. If we had to do this, how long would you expect a gaming session to last?

 

10) Anything else we should be thinking about?

 

Any feedback you have to share is valuable. Appreciate you for considering.

[Rik Lightstar]

I think the big question here would be where you're talking about geographically?

 

Followed by times, evenings and weekends would be the best times for most people I'd expect.

 

For me, I'm in the UK, so we're still currently in lockdown and gaming clubs and stores are still closed for the next few months at least. The UK gaming scene is predominantly more club based in community centres, church halls and similar for a lot of people, with some of the larger independent gaming stores having resident gaming clubs.

 

That all having been said, the answers for me would be:

 

1) beyond tables and heating/ac the obvious facilities for surviving an evening or afternoon of gaming. Toilet access. Somewhere to either make or buy coffee or tea, and ideally the option to buy some snacks if not on the site then within a few minutes walk.

 

2) It'd be more about the space between tables, making sure there's a big enough gap between the tables and space to stand back a bit while opponents are taking their turns.

 

3) Temporary nature wouldn't be a huge turn off for me, although a lot of my gaming buddies are very much creatures of habit and not so keen on change.

 

4) Club fees around where I am seem to be around the £5 a "session" mark and I'd be comfortable with a bit more for a really good location. A monthly membership would be fine if it worked out a bit cheaper than paying for the 4 sessions I'd hope to get in a month.

 

5) Booking a table for the night wouldn't concern me, again, that's pretty standard here.

 

6) Masking up would be fine, assuming again that the temperature inside is well regulated, 4 hours in a mask in a hot/stuffy room is a bit unappealing.

 

7) 2 I guess, I like meeting new gamers, I'd likely bring a few I knew with me the first few times though.

 

8) I'd probably rather someone was coming to put away tables and lockup than expect to do it, someone always ends up having to coordinate these things and it'll often be me.

 

9) For 40k I think you need 3 hours minimum, maybe 4 hours to be safe.

 

10a) Catering to a greater or lesser extent is a great way to make money from hungry, thirsty geeks.

 

10b) Parking and access, local transport links.

 

10c) General "safety" at the location for late nights etc

 

Rik

[techsoldaten]

I think the big question here would be where you're talking about geographically?

 

Followed by times, evenings and weekends would be the best times for most people I'd expect.

 

For me, I'm in the UK, so we're still currently in lockdown and gaming clubs and stores are still closed for the next few months at least. The UK gaming scene is predominantly more club based in community centres, church halls and similar for a lot of people, with some of the larger independent gaming stores having resident gaming clubs.

 

Thanks for the response, Rik.

 

If possible, I'd like to avoid discussing geographical differences in attitude.

 

No offence, the question matters. But what's more important for right now is understanding what matters to gamers in general. People where I live are eager to get back to gaming, I'm worried the vocal locals would provide info that only applies to a small group.

[MARK0SIAN]

Sounds like a cool idea, my answers would be:

 

1) Toilets, parking and as it’s an old industrial/warehouse site I’d want it to be reasonably clean inside.

 

2) The number of people is impossible to say without knowing the size of the location but I would want enough space so that everyone could socially distance easily.

 

3) Temporary nature wouldn’t bother me at all

 

4) A small fee to play would be fine, not sure exactly how much but it shouldn’t be expensive

 

5) I would ONLY play somewhere I could schedule games in advance. I wouldn’t travel on the off chance of getting a game/table. Plus with the way things are now I wouldn’t trust anywhere to manage the numbers of people safely if people didn’t have to book.

 

6) I would expect the venue to insist on mask wearing and for the policy to be enforced

 

7) 1 other than my opponents I rarely know any of the other people where I would usually game.

 

8) I would expect someone there at all times to deal with the bookings, enforce the mask policy and keep people on track with start and finish times.

 

9) it’s hard to say a timeframe given the types of games that could be played and the different sizes within those games. I don’t know how much of the day you want to keep it open but I’d divide booking simply into a morning slot maybe from 9-12 and an afternoon one from 1-4 so you’ve got time to clean between them. People could play whatever they want in that time at their table and if it’s not busy you could allow them to book out both the morning and afternoon sessions for a whole day of gaming. You could also add an evening slot from 5-8 if you really wanted to keep it open that long.

 

10) The only other thing I’ve seen that you might want to check out is lighting. I’ve been to events where the lighting was so poor that it was pretty hard to read the dice in some cases.

 

It sounds like a great idea and very generous of you so I wish you luck with it whatever you decide to do :)

[mughi3]

We have been in person gaming since june of 2020

 

it basically went march 2020-march 2021

 

3 month lockdown

5 month invitiation only private game nights with limited size attendance

2 month lockdown

25% re-opening (jan 2021)

50% re-opening -current 

 

We basically have full attendance given the size of our store/game area  we are missing a few groups(magic and RPG) but we still average around a dozen players for miniature game night. 

 

It is a store so we have a bathroom and parking. 

 

Restriction wise the health department still suggests masks and such but most of us don't care. most of us are pretty much family with many of the regulars having been playing together every weekend for a couple years up to a couple decades.  we let you choose your own level of risk. if you want to or not want to wear a mask we are not going to force the issue. if you don't feel comfortable coming in then you are free not to.  

 

 

I once considered setting up a private game club when our local game stores future was in question prior to covid. 

 

The idea was a small space with a bathroom 2 6X4 game tables for minis, an RPG style kitchen table and possible a folding card gaming table or 2. 

 

With a donation jar for rent, power etc.. to help me reduce costs. 

[MegaVolt87]

Before all that- personally are you certain you can do without the extra income gained from a commercial property? That sector of real estate is actually as far as I have seen (Aussie) has held well during the pandemic compared to residential real estate, especially on rental returns. Talk to your planner or accountant further, you may be able to do negative gearing with the gaming space idea  for your tax situation, register a non profit society/club etc. Just because something isn't making money, doesn't mean it has other benefits. Now to your points-

 

1) I would say bathrooms and parking are the other big requirement there. People are going to be there a while and also don't want to worry about getting a ticket or their car towed. 

 

2) That's an easy question, use the square footage/meters of your warehouse, then keep adding in tables in line with the social distancing recommendations for your region ( I have seen 4-6 ft or 3-5, meters etc). You should be able to get sinage from your relevant govt agency also to put up. 

 

3) Just put it as a pop up games space, everyone knows pop up locations are never a permanent thing. 

 

4) Do per session fees, especially since it will be a temp thing.

 

5) Make a facebook group and have it done through that, you can use the events/calendar bit to schedule everyone and people can see/ plan their visit better. 

 

6) No mask, no play. Its a private property if they don't like it tell them to go jump. You don't want to know people like that anyway in my experience. Your space may even be more popular because you don't have people like that there as a result. 

 

7) 1, not an issue. People will be scheduling with friends and acquaintances to go or using the facebook group (you set that up remember? ;) )instead of milling around for a game. 

 

8) Depends on the area and the type of people you can expect to show up. I know that sounds controversial, but its true. At a minimum, having a cleaner who can show up on call for bathrooms that day etc would be a minimum, to do an emergency clean as needed. They don't have to be an employee or anything, just a company/ person who can show up to do it. 

 

9) Would be easier to set a block/ multiples of time where people have to finish before and can't enter when they book their time in. The cleaning schedule will be based on whatever you think or comply with your regions requirements. Need to put all that up front before people can book. 

 

10) Invite an LGS to put in a booth in the warehouse when its open, take a fee for it. If the area has an LGS I think you could be harming their customer base even if you won't be doing it long term with such a gaming space. Even if they say no, you made an effort to be considerate. Not many LGS can compete with that level of available games space. You don't want to be the guy who kills the LGS by having a mad games space, switching the locals to internet purchasing and watching the LGS close its doors. 

[techsoldaten]

Before all that- personally are you certain you can do without the extra income gained from a commercial property? That sector of real estate is actually as far as I have seen (Aussie) has held well during the pandemic compared to residential real estate, especially on rental returns. Talk to your planner or accountant further, you may be able to do negative gearing with the gaming space idea  for your tax situation, register a non profit society/club etc. Just because something isn't making money, doesn't mean it has other benefits.

 

First off - thank you for the response to the original post. I appreciate the feedback.

 

Second, financially, this should work out fine. Without going into all the details, the estate of the former lessee will be paying out a penalty for breaking the lease once it clears escrow, along with other fees and back rent. There's a lot of availability right now that is depressing the rates for commercial / industrial leases in our area, we'd rather wait a year for that to decrease. My wife is fine with it as long as I'm out of the house more often, we've been cooped up for too long.

 

My partner in this is an industrial hygienist who currently remediates buildings after Covid exposure. I'm going to use his services for cleanup once the space is empty anyways, we've got a plan for for how to fit the space with additional safety controls (enclosed disposal for cleaning products, filters on the vents, duct cleaning, sanitation stations, the works.)

 

One other advantage is I actually have 26 gaming tables from FLGSes that closed (along with chairs, counters, posters, stand-up signs, POS terminals, and many other things.) We could turn the warehouse into a very familiar environment without much investment.

 

We've given some thought to corporate structure. Technically, I would have to rent the space to an organization that would have it's own liability insurance. If the LLC does decide to accept payments, they would be paid out to any 'managers' we bring on to sit at the space while people game. We could take a percentage of that to pay for insurance, the rider would be cheap.

 

That's about it on the business front. I just have to make sure there's actual interest before proceeding.

[NovemberIX]

I can see a dedicated gaming space having it's place among the community in the right local.

 

1) Aside from tables and climate controls - what is the minimum you would be looking for in a place set up to allow you to play?

   

    Parking, preferably paved and lit, controlled access is great, drive up and unload is really nice. Clean hygienic facilities. Wifi is nice, a sound system to hook up to even nicer. Space to lay out books, non-active models, cameras and tablets is super nice.

 

2) How many people would you personally be comfortable around in a location? Would your answer change 6 months from now?

   

    Currently, my closest gaming group, and maybe +2 for a total of 6. In 6 months, if things work out like they should, larger numbers only limited by comfortable table spacing.

 

3) Would the temporary nature of a location be a turn off? For instance, if you knew this was only going to exist for six months, would that make you less likely to want to play there?

 

    Not necessarily, but the infrequent nature of my specific gaming group would probably preclude a quick return, that said, if there's a draw, then it makes wanting to play there worthwhile. 

 

4) Would you pay money to have a place to game, like a monthly membership fee or a per-session fee? If so, how much would you consider reasonable?

 

    I think it's fair to charge for gaming space, and depending on the frequency of any specific gamer, both options are fine, with the added suggestion of an overall facility rental for those of us who run larger games that take multiple tables and hours.

 

5) If you had to schedule your games in advance, would that make you less likely to want to use the space?

 

    Being able to schedule and reserve a table/tables in advance would actually be preferable to the current show up and hope we can fit in an Apoc sized game.

 

6) If you had to wear a mask when in the building, would that make you less likely to want to use the space?

  

    Again, a preference towards this. Ounce of prevention and all that jazz.

 

7) On a scale of 1 - 5 (5 being the highest,) how important is it that you know the other people who would be using the space?

 

    Currently, hard 5, post vaccine, it's less about knowing who they are, and knowing that if we break for lunch in the middle of a game that someone isn't gonna decide they'd like some new models.

 

8) How important would it be to have someone on-site to manage the location? Would you trust yourself and others to finish games on time and leave the place in a good state? Or would you only be comfortable if someone 'in charge' was present at all times?

 

   While cleaning up and putting things back where they belong hasn't been an issue for us, I think shutting down or securing an unfamiliar commercial facility is less than ideal. Having to search for a switch to turn on lights is never enjoyable, especially in a warehouse setting where sometimes there's multiple switches that need to be flipped and they're never where you think they are.... There is also the question of security and preventing general misanthropy.

 

9) We're considering limiting all games to a strict timeframe to allow cleaning between sessions. If we had to do this, how long would you expect a gaming session to last?

 

    I can't speak for the average gamer, but minimum 4 hours including set-up and breakdown, if we're doing apoc, 8-10 hours isn't uncommon, so, that would probably need to be limited down to a 6hr max realistically.

 

10) Anything else we should be thinking about?

 

      The most basic question is Why should I go to you instead of renting a table from my FLGS, or setting up my own at home? The answer is gonna have to be terrain. If I have to truck in my own terrain, I might as well set up in someones house/or property. But give me an impressive set up to play on, something beyond grass hills and cratered concrete. My not at all local but very friendly gaming store has the most amazing tables, it's worth the 30 minute drive out of town and gravel parking lot to play on those things.

[mughi3]

I think it depends on the area and what people are used to but the very concept of having to pay to use a table is a huge negative in my local area. all the FLGS in the area provide table space for free, and would quickly see the game groups disappear if they started charging.  People would just opt to set up games at home on a kitchen table or in a garage and invite friends over to play.   that's why we steered more towards the donation concept  to help defray the costs so players would not feel obligated.  

 

Your mileage may vary. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Stores for gaming will be open by the Summer in the US with minimal restrictions, so if you’re going to get in on it you should try to be set up and ready by then. Vaccines will be available to everyone by the end of April. Not sure where you’re located though.

[MARK0SIAN]

I think it depends on the area and what people are used to but the very concept of having to pay to use a table is a huge negative in my local area. all the FLGS in the area provide table space for free, and would quickly see the game groups disappear if they started charging. People would just opt to set up games at home on a kitchen table or in a garage and invite friends over to play. that's why we steered more towards the donation concept to help defray the costs so players would not feel obligated.

 

Your mileage may vary.

There’s a big difference though, FLGS have other ways to recoup the costs, in fact they probably benefit by offering free gaming space. This is a guy literally offering his warehouse for people to game in, he’s not got any other way to pay for the heating/utilities except out of his own pocket.

 

I’d be genuinely amazed at anybody being seriously put off in that situation by a nominal charge. Expecting someone to provide all that this guy is offering for free without even covering his own costs is not reasonable.

Edited March 16, 2021 by MARK0SIAN

[techsoldaten]

 

I think it depends on the area and what people are used to but the very concept of having to pay to use a table is a huge negative in my local area. all the FLGS in the area provide table space for free, and would quickly see the game groups disappear if they started charging. People would just opt to set up games at home on a kitchen table or in a garage and invite friends over to play. that's why we steered more towards the donation concept to help defray the costs so players would not feel obligated.

 

Your mileage may vary.

There’s a big difference though, FLGS have other ways to recoup the costs, in fact they probably benefit by offering free gaming space. This is a guy literally offering his warehouse for people to game in, he’s not got any other way to pay for the heating/utilities except out of his own pocket.

 

I’d be genuinely amazed at anybody being seriously put off in that situation by a nominal charge. Expecting someone to provide all that this guy is offering for free without even covering his own costs is not reasonable.

 

 

There's a capacity issue in my area. As we come out of lockdowns, there won't be as many options as there were before.

 

Of the 7 FLGSes that existed pre-Covid, 3 are out of business, 2 would prefer people don't play there in the near future, and the other 2 have 8 tables between them. There's also a GW store but not many people play there, it only has 2 tables.

 

Between all the shops, we estimate the number of in-store players pre-Covid each Friday / Sat / Sun averaged between 250 - 300. Those numbers fluctuate seasonally and when school is in session.

 

So we're pretty sure there will be a need based on 14% capacity from the pre-Covid numbers, we just don't know how eager players will be to get back to in-person gaming. Social media indicates most people are ready to go right now, but I'm concerned it might be a vocal minority instead of an indicator of true sentiment.

 

While I appreciate the kind words, there's no need to make this out to be a charitable case. We have other tenants, the cost of utilities is bundled into the cost per sq ft of space so that really doesn't affect me. Because the last tenant broke the lease by passing away, the warehouse is paid for until summer 2023. I'd consider keeping it set up the whole time so long as the space is being used constructively.

 

Not leasing it out right now benefits me because the supply for commercial / industrial space is so high that it's depressing the market. Were I not doing this, I would probably let the space go to a church or non-profit for the tax deductions until that changes. It also gives me time to complete upgrades we started in 2019 for the whole office park, we'd like to be more attractive to the scientific / biotech companies that are coming up in the area and need to refresh the facilities for that to happen.