Vigilator w Jump pack okay?

[Lord Krungharr]

I have some bits to make my Vigilator, and was thinking of putting a jump pack on him with Scout Armor. Plan would be to have him joined to my Tartaros Terminators so they could get in good position via Infiltrate and Scout. Then I was thinking the Vigilator could jump off on his own from cover to cover while sniping with his bolter or melta bombing like a sneaky git.

 

I didnt see anything in his rules saying he can’t take a jump pack but wanted to double check if I missed something.

[Spagunk]

Nope, vigilator is not allowed bikes, jet bikes and termie armor. So you're all good there.

[Slips]

I have some bits to make my Vigilator, and was thinking of putting a jump pack on him with Scout Armor. Plan would be to have him joined to my Tartaros Terminators so they could get in good position via Infiltrate and Scout. Then I was thinking the Vigilator could jump off on his own from cover to cover while sniping with his bolter or melta bombing like a sneaky git.

 

I didnt see anything in his rules saying he can’t take a jump pack but wanted to double check if I missed something.

Correct me if Im wrong, but unless the unit he himself is joining has infiltrate, he cannot join the unit/conver the rule to them.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

I have some bits to make my Vigilator, and was thinking of putting a jump pack on him with Scout Armor. Plan would be to have him joined to my Tartaros Terminators so they could get in good position via Infiltrate and Scout. Then I was thinking the Vigilator could jump off on his own from cover to cover while sniping with his bolter or melta bombing like a sneaky git.

 

I didnt see anything in his rules saying he can’t take a jump pack but wanted to double check if I missed something.

Correct me if Im wrong, but unless the unit he himself is joining has infiltrate, he cannot join the unit/conver the rule to them.

Excactly.

You cannot join a unit without infiltrate to give them infiltrate via a character @lord Krungharr.

I thought we had this topic covered, no?

Anyway, Scout is possible.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Gorgoff

[Lord Krungharr]

Hmmm, I do seem to recall that Infiltrate change from old 6th to 7th edition 40k, but it's a fuzzy memory and my big red rulebook is still on order.  Well Scout is something anyways, and this old metal guy I have needs a job.

[Gorgoff]

Hmmm, I do seem to recall that Infiltrate change from old 6th to 7th edition 40k, but it's a fuzzy memory and my big red rulebook is still on order. Well Scout is something anyways, and this old metal guy I have needs a job.

Scout is great and sometimes the special rule of the Vigilator actually does something, too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Infiltrate changed from being able to charge if you went second to not, same with scout. The deployment part has always been the same since 5th; Shrike in 40k was never technically able to grant infiltrate as a result.

[Indefragable]

 

 

I have some bits to make my Vigilator, and was thinking of putting a jump pack on him with Scout Armor. Plan would be to have him joined to my Tartaros Terminators so they could get in good position via Infiltrate and Scout. Then I was thinking the Vigilator could jump off on his own from cover to cover while sniping with his bolter or melta bombing like a sneaky git.

 

I didnt see anything in his rules saying he can’t take a jump pack but wanted to double check if I missed something.

Correct me if Im wrong, but unless the unit he himself is joining has infiltrate, he cannot join the unit/conver the rule to them.

 

Excactly.

You cannot join a unit without infiltrate to give them infiltrate via a character @lord Krungharr.

I thought we had this topic covered, no?

Anyway, Scout is possible, though the Vigilator can't take a Jump Pack.

 

...to prevent anyone else from going down the rabbit hole I just did, the rule that precludes Infiltrate from “spreading” to another unit is under the Independent Character section of the Special Rules chapter of the red rule book. There it specifically states that IC’s with Infiltrate do not confer it to a unit they join unless the unit already has it. 

 

It’s just a bit confusing because Infiltrate itself makes it seem like it does confer, and in the Legions Red Book (digital) right above Vigilator it has Chaplain and the wording for Zealot is the same as Infiltrate with the “unit contains one or more models” clause, thus I started to type out a post until I kept digging until I checked the IC rule under Special Rules and voila it was there. 

 

TL;DR: consensus on this forum is usually correct, but the paper trail establishing that ruling is not always obvious

 

 

...that being said, why can’t a Vigilator take a jump pack? 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Indefragable

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have some bits to make my Vigilator, and was thinking of putting a jump pack on him with Scout Armor. Plan would be to have him joined to my Tartaros Terminators so they could get in good position via Infiltrate and Scout. Then I was thinking the Vigilator could jump off on his own from cover to cover while sniping with his bolter or melta bombing like a sneaky git.

 

I didnt see anything in his rules saying he can’t take a jump pack but wanted to double check if I missed something.

Correct me if Im wrong, but unless the unit he himself is joining has infiltrate, he cannot join the unit/conver the rule to them.

Excactly.

You cannot join a unit without infiltrate to give them infiltrate via a character @lord Krungharr.

I thought we had this topic covered, no?

Anyway, Scout is possible, though the Vigilator can't take a Jump Pack.

...to prevent anyone else from going down the rabbit hole I just did, the rule that precludes Infiltrate from “spreading” to another unit is under the Independent Character section of the Special Rules chapter of the red rule book. There it specifically states that IC’s with Infiltrate do not confer it to a unit they join unless the unit already has it.

 

It’s just a bit confusing because Infiltrate itself makes it seem like it does confer, and in the Legions Red Book (digital) right above Vigilator it has Chaplain and the wording for Zealot is the same as Infiltrate with the “unit contains one or more models” clause, thus I started to type out a post until I kept digging until I checked the IC rule under Special Rules and voila it was there.

 

TL;DR: consensus on this forum is usually correct, but the paper trail establishing that ruling is not always obvious

 

 

...that being said, why can’t a Vigilator take a jump pack?

He can, I read it wrong.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have some bits to make my Vigilator, and was thinking of putting a jump pack on him with Scout Armor. Plan would be to have him joined to my Tartaros Terminators so they could get in good position via Infiltrate and Scout. Then I was thinking the Vigilator could jump off on his own from cover to cover while sniping with his bolter or melta bombing like a sneaky git.

 

I didnt see anything in his rules saying he can’t take a jump pack but wanted to double check if I missed something.

Correct me if Im wrong, but unless the unit he himself is joining has infiltrate, he cannot join the unit/conver the rule to them.

Excactly.

You cannot join a unit without infiltrate to give them infiltrate via a character @lord Krungharr.

I thought we had this topic covered, no?

Anyway, Scout is possible, though the Vigilator can't take a Jump Pack.

...to prevent anyone else from going down the rabbit hole I just did, the rule that precludes Infiltrate from “spreading” to another unit is under the Independent Character section of the Special Rules chapter of the red rule book. There it specifically states that IC’s with Infiltrate do not confer it to a unit they join unless the unit already has it.

 

It’s just a bit confusing because Infiltrate itself makes it seem like it does confer, and in the Legions Red Book (digital) right above Vigilator it has Chaplain and the wording for Zealot is the same as Infiltrate with the “unit contains one or more models” clause, thus I started to type out a post until I kept digging until I checked the IC rule under Special Rules and voila it was there.

 

TL;DR: consensus on this forum is usually correct, but the paper trail establishing that ruling is not always obvious

That's not really true at all.

 

What precludes infiltrate spreading is the mechanics of deployment. Infiltrators get put in a seperate deployment pool that get placed after; non-infiltrate units are already deployed. Rules are only spread from "at least one" clauses when there's a character in coherency with the unit when that rule is triggered.

 

The rule you're referring to blocks deployment, not spreading. What it does is say "hey even if you want to deploy in your deployment zone with your IC in coherency with a tactical squad, you can't" or "you can't have an HQ with infiltrate in reserve with a squad that doesn't" or "you can't have your power armoured raven guard praetor in a Spartan with terminators" . It's a further limit on infiltrating on top of the mechanical limitation of how deployment blocks spreading it.

[Indefragable]

 

<snip>

That's not really true at all.

 

What precludes infiltrate spreading is the mechanics of deployment. Infiltrators get put in a seperate deployment pool that get placed after; non-infiltrate units are already deployed. Rules are only spread from "at least one" clauses when there's a character in coherency with the unit when that rule is triggered.

 

The rule you're referring to blocks deployment, not spreading. What it does is say "hey even if you want to deploy in your deployment zone with your IC in coherency with a tactical squad, you can't" or "you can't have an HQ with infiltrate in reserve with a squad that doesn't" or "you can't have your power armoured raven guard praetor in a Spartan with terminators" . It's a further limit on infiltrating on top of the mechanical limitation of how deployment blocks spreading it.

 

 

...which part of the rule books lays that out? Nothing in Reserves mentions that, nor anything in Infiltrate. Not saying you're wrong*, but where in the rules does that pan out?

 

I get what you're saying is essentially you create 3 separate categories of units before you Deploy them:

 

1. On the table/normal
2. Reserves
3. Infiltrate/Special Deployment

 

...and so Independent Characters get put into each of these pools as well, and then can decide which units in the same Deployment type they are eligible to be attached to. Right? 

 

I get the concept as you describe it, but where in the rules does it list that is the case?  Because if I am not mistaken, you choose how a unit Deploys as you choose that unit to Deploy. Aka something that can be on either the table or in Reserves you decide at any point during Deployment which type of deployment it will use; you do not separate into categories before you start deploying anything (with the caveat that some units must deploy a certain way like Drop Pods or Flyers or such). 

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

<snip>

That's not really true at all.

 

What precludes infiltrate spreading is the mechanics of deployment. Infiltrators get put in a seperate deployment pool that get placed after; non-infiltrate units are already deployed. Rules are only spread from "at least one" clauses when there's a character in coherency with the unit when that rule is triggered.

 

The rule you're referring to blocks deployment, not spreading. What it does is say "hey even if you want to deploy in your deployment zone with your IC in coherency with a tactical squad, you can't" or "you can't have an HQ with infiltrate in reserve with a squad that doesn't" or "you can't have your power armoured raven guard praetor in a Spartan with terminators" . It's a further limit on infiltrating on top of the mechanical limitation of how deployment blocks spreading it.

...which part of the rule books lays that out? Nothing in Reserves mentions that, nor anything in Infiltrate. Not saying you're wrong*, but where in the rules does that pan out?

 

I get what you're saying is essentially you create 3 separate categories of units before you Deploy them:

• On the table/normal
• Reserves
• Infiltrate/Special Deployment

...and so Independent Characters get put into each of these pools as well, and then can decide which units in the same Deployment type they are eligible to be attached to. Right?

 

I get the concept as you describe it, but where in the rules does it list that is the case? Because if I am not mistaken, you choose how a unit Deploys as you choose that unit to Deploy. Aka something that can be on either the table or in Reserves you decide at any point during Deployment which type of deployment it will use; you do not separate into categories before you start deploying anything (with the caveat that some units must deploy a certain way like Drop Pods or Flyers or such).

Pages 144, 147, 166-167.

Regular deployment-> putting units in reserves-> infiltrate. On each of these steps IC can join units but IC can only join units with infiltrate and vice versa.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

<snip>

That's not really true at all.

 

What precludes infiltrate spreading is the mechanics of deployment. Infiltrators get put in a seperate deployment pool that get placed after; non-infiltrate units are already deployed. Rules are only spread from "at least one" clauses when there's a character in coherency with the unit when that rule is triggered.

 

The rule you're referring to blocks deployment, not spreading. What it does is say "hey even if you want to deploy in your deployment zone with your IC in coherency with a tactical squad, you can't" or "you can't have an HQ with infiltrate in reserve with a squad that doesn't" or "you can't have your power armoured raven guard praetor in a Spartan with terminators" . It's a further limit on infiltrating on top of the mechanical limitation of how deployment blocks spreading it.

...which part of the rule books lays that out? Nothing in Reserves mentions that, nor anything in Infiltrate. Not saying you're wrong*, but where in the rules does that pan out?

 

I get what you're saying is essentially you create 3 separate categories of units before you Deploy them:

• On the table/normal
• Reserves
• Infiltrate/Special Deployment

...and so Independent Characters get put into each of these pools as well, and then can decide which units in the same Deployment type they are eligible to be attached to. Right?

 

I get the concept as you describe it, but where in the rules does it list that is the case? Because if I am not mistaken, you choose how a unit Deploys as you choose that unit to Deploy. Aka something that can be on either the table or in Reserves you decide at any point during Deployment which type of deployment it will use; you do not separate into categories before you start deploying anything (with the caveat that some units must deploy a certain way like Drop Pods or Flyers or such).

I'm confused by how you're confused.

 

Infiltrate says you deploy the units infiltrating last, after everything else.

 

The rules for independent characters tells you that;

 

"An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent which unit it has joined"

 

So if you deploy first, you deploy your non infiltrating stuff as normal; ICs that want to infiltrate are held back as per the infiltrating rule. Because characters can only join squads by deploying them on the table in coherency, you can't spread infiltrate because the units are already deployed by the time characters would be joining them to give them the rule.

 

It's right there on page 166 and 167.